Well, I guess every 2nd hand store in america must be shut down. Anybody interested in the lots of Apple Computer Manuals I had for sale on eBay? I'll re-list what each lot contains here later... ------------------------- begin response from Apple ------------------------------ Dear Terry: Thank you for your email requesting an explanation concerning the removal of your eBay listing. Apples owns the copyrights it its manuals and does not grant permission to third parties to copy or sell them. Moreover, all Apple copyrighted material should not be reproduced (copied), sold, or distributed without express permission from Apple. Apple expressly reserves any and all rights and remedies under the law. We appreciate your contacting us for an explanation, and anticipate your understanding of our position. Thank you. Sincerely, Sue Runfola Apple Legal copyright@apple.com This message and any attached documents contain information from the law department of Apple Computer, Inc. that may be confidential and/or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute, or use this information. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message. > > I would like a formal explanation as to why the following listings were > removed from eBay. As far as I know, it is not illegal to sell original > books, manuals, or accessories. There is no software whatsoever included in > any of the listings referenced below and I am unaware of any licensing > restrictions regarding operator or user manuals. I sent a request for > explanation to you on April 17, 2004 and have yet to receive a response. > Please respond as soon as possible. If I do not receive a response by April > 30, 2004, I will file a Counter Notice with eBay with intent to re-list > these items. > > Terry Olsen > > -----Original Message----- > From: ended@ebay.com [mailto:ended@ebay.com] > Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2004 10:40 AM > To: olsens@access-4-free.com > Subject: VeRO NOTICE: eBay Listing(s) Removed - VeRO Program > > Dear Terry R Olsen (olsens@access-4-free.com), > > **PLEASE READ THIS IMPORTANT EMAIL REGARDING YOUR LISTING(S)** > > We would like to let you know that we removed your listing: > > > 4123863311 AppleWorksGS Manuals for the Apple IIgs > 4123606054 Set of Manuals for the Apple //c IIc > 4123602750 Lots of manuals for Apple IIe with extras! Hava Look! > 4123594503 Set of Manuals for Apple IIgs with extras! Great Stuff! > > > > because a Verified Rights Owner (VeRO) Program participant notified us, > under penalty of perjury, that your listing infringes the rights owner's > copyright, trademark, or other rights. > > We have credited any associated fees to your account. We have also notified > the bidders that the listing(s) was removed, and that they are not obligated > to complete the transaction. > > If you relist this or any other similar items on eBay, your account likely > will be suspended. > > If you believe your listing was ended in error, or have questions regarding > the removal of this listing, please contact the VeRO Program participant > directly at: > > Apple Computer, Inc. > copyright@apple.com > > eBay is available to answer questions, but since it is the VeRO Program > participant that requested the removal of your listings, we encourage you to > contact them first. > > For more information on the VeRO Program, and a list of VeRO Program > participant About Me pages, please visit: > > http://pages.ebay.com/help/confidence/vero-removed-listing.html > http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/vero-aboutme.html > > Thank you for your cooperation. > > Regards, > > Customer Support (Trust and Safety Department) > eBay Inc > > Terry Olsen wrote: > Apples owns the copyrights it its manuals and does not grant permission to > third parties to copy or sell them. Moreover, all Apple copyrighted > material should not be reproduced (copied), sold, or distributed without > express permission from Apple. Apple expressly reserves any and all rights > and remedies under the law. WTF? I understand how copyright applies to *copying* manuals, but how can re-selling a used manual be construed as copyright infringement. To quote from the copyright notice in my Apple IIe User's Manual: "...all of the material purchased (with all backup copies) may be sold, given, or lent to another person." I couldn't find any Apple manual in my collection that specifically forbade reselling. Seems that Apple is clearly in the wrong here, though I doubt there's any practical recourse. -- T____I____M____E____L____O____R____D | Apple II Drum & Bassline Sequencer | | < http://apple2.luddite.ca > | |_[email]__[@]__[luddite]__[.]__[ca]_| Yes, I understand your position. But I have been buying these manuals from thrift shops and selling them on ebay for years. Because I am an Apple II enthusiast, and because these manuals are no longer in print, I would rather buy & resell these manuals to someone who genuinely wants them than see them thrown in the dumpster because they don't sell at the thrift store. Sometimes I make a small profit from selling them on ebay, sometimes I sell them at a loss. All-in-all, I would say I have not made any commercial gain from this. It is done strictly out of love for an old friend, the Apple ][. I would strongly request that you re-consider your position regarding these obsolete items. Nobody benefits from the death of a legacy, still loved by thousands of people around the world. Thrift stores sell them and used book stores sell them. I've even found them being re-sold at a Hastings Book Store in my area and on Amazon.com. I fail to see how selling them on ebay is any different. Thanks for your consideration, Terry Olsen In article , "Terry Olsen" wrote: > Yes, I understand your position. But I have been buying these manuals from > thrift shops and selling them on ebay for years. Because I am an Apple II > enthusiast, and because these manuals are no longer in print, I would rather > buy & resell these manuals to someone who genuinely wants them than see them > thrown in the dumpster because they don't sell at the thrift store. > Sometimes I make a small profit from selling them on ebay, sometimes I sell > them at a loss. All-in-all, I would say I have not made any commercial gain > from this. It is done strictly out of love for an old friend, the Apple ][. > > > > I would strongly request that you re-consider your position regarding these > obsolete items. Nobody benefits from the death of a legacy, still loved by > thousands of people around the world. Thrift stores sell them and used book > stores sell them. I've even found them being re-sold at a Hastings Book > Store in my area and on Amazon.com. I fail to see how selling them on ebay > is any different. > > > > Thanks for your consideration, > > Terry Olsen This would seem to come under "Right of First Sale." Here's a snippet I found on the web: "What is the right of "first sale?" The right of first sale is an exemption to the creator's copyright to sell a work. Any individual, who lawfully owns a copy of a work, has the right to "first sale" of the work. That is, a collector who has bought a work from a creator may sell or otherwise dispose of his or her lawful copy without permission from the creator who owns the copyrights. For example, if you purchased a copy of a poster, you may later resell or donate that poster to whomever you please without obtaining permission from the creator or other copyright holder. However, you may NOT duplicate, publicly distribute, perform, or exhibit multiples of that poster. Most states (except California) don't require that a portion of revenues from sales of works automatically go to the original creator of the work." That came from Google's cache of: http://www.nps.gov/helpdesk/copyrght.htm Lot's of info out there: http://www.google.com/search?client=googlet&q=%22right%20of%20first%20sal e%22 -- Hey spambots! Harvest this! .!.. Unsolicited commercial email (uce) should be sent to: uce@ftc.gov Well, I guess every 2nd hand store in america must be shut down. Anybody interested in the lots of Apple Computer Manuals I had for sale on eBay? I'll re-list what each lot contains here later... ------------------------- begin response from Apple ------------------------------ Dear Terry: Thank you for your email requesting an explanation concerning the removal of your eBay listing. Apples owns the copyrights it its manuals and does not grant permission to third parties to copy or sell them. Moreover, all Apple copyrighted material should not be reproduced (copied), sold, or distributed without express permission from Apple. Apple expressly reserves any and all rights and remedies under the law. We appreciate your contacting us for an explanation, and anticipate your understanding of our position. Thank you. Sincerely, Sue Runfola Apple Legal copyright@apple.com This message and any attached documents contain information from the law department of Apple Computer, Inc. that may be confidential and/or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute, or use this information. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message. > > I would like a formal explanation as to why the following listings were > removed from eBay. As far as I know, it is not illegal to sell original > books, manuals, or accessories. There is no software whatsoever included in > any of the listings referenced below and I am unaware of any licensing > restrictions regarding operator or user manuals. I sent a request for > explanation to you on April 17, 2004 and have yet to receive a response. > Please respond as soon as possible. If I do not receive a response by April > 30, 2004, I will file a Counter Notice with eBay with intent to re-list > these items. > > Terry Olsen > > -----Original Message----- > From: ended@ebay.com [mailto:ended@ebay.com] > Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2004 10:40 AM > To: olsens@access-4-free.com > Subject: VeRO NOTICE: eBay Listing(s) Removed - VeRO Program > > Dear Terry R Olsen (olsens@access-4-free.com), > > **PLEASE READ THIS IMPORTANT EMAIL REGARDING YOUR LISTING(S)** > > We would like to let you know that we removed your listing: > > > 4123863311 AppleWorksGS Manuals for the Apple IIgs > 4123606054 Set of Manuals for the Apple //c IIc > 4123602750 Lots of manuals for Apple IIe with extras! Hava Look! > 4123594503 Set of Manuals for Apple IIgs with extras! Great Stuff! > > > > because a Verified Rights Owner (VeRO) Program participant notified us, > under penalty of perjury, that your listing infringes the rights owner's > copyright, trademark, or other rights. > > We have credited any associated fees to your account. We have also notified > the bidders that the listing(s) was removed, and that they are not obligated > to complete the transaction. > > If you relist this or any other similar items on eBay, your account likely > will be suspended. > > If you believe your listing was ended in error, or have questions regarding > the removal of this listing, please contact the VeRO Program participant > directly at: > > Apple Computer, Inc. > copyright@apple.com > > eBay is available to answer questions, but since it is the VeRO Program > participant that requested the removal of your listings, we encourage you to > contact them first. > > For more information on the VeRO Program, and a list of VeRO Program > participant About Me pages, please visit: > > http://pages.ebay.com/help/confidence/vero-removed-listing.html > http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/vero-aboutme.html > > Thank you for your cooperation. > > Regards, > > Customer Support (Trust and Safety Department) > eBay Inc > >