> >> Don't think it's that simple... I have a //c mouse that doesn't work > >> on my //c, but my IIe mouse does. Both work on the IIe and Mac Plus. > >> Whether it matters or not I don't know, but if you look at the model > >> number of the mouse some start with "A2" and some with "M" -- > >> presumably this would indicate Apple 2 or Macintosh. I've always > >> suspected the problem (in my case) is with the mouse port on the //c... > >> since it doubles as the game port maybe there's bug. > > Possibly ones with an A2 number will work but I also > > was under the distinct impression that since the IIc's > > game port doubles as a mouse port that the mouses > > were wired differently. All I know for sure is that all > > the M0100 mouses I have don't work and all the ones > > marked IIe don't work and all the ones with IIc on the > > label do work. So, IMHO, if you get one that is marked > > IIc you run a better risk of it working. I also read about > > a hack where you add a resistor or diode, can't remember > > which now to the IIc motherboard and it allows either > > one to work. There is also a paddle thing you can do, but > > I'm not so sure I would mess with that. ;-) I now have 2 > > IIc mouses that work, and 3 IIc's so I'm looking for one > > more. Very little I need now but much more WANTS. > On a Mac's mouse socket pins 1 and 3 are labelled as ground, and I > assume the Apple mouse card is the same. On the IIc mouse/joystick > connector pin 1 is used for Mouse ID (mouse) or pushbutton 1 (joystick) > and pin 3 only is ground. > On the third-party mouse I have pin 1 is connected directly to pin 3. > This mouse works with my IIc, and is advertised to work with a Mac and > Apple II mouse card as well. So it would seem for the IIc to work with a > mouse, the mouse has to pull pin 1 directly to ground. I suspect that > the early mice didn't have this link, and it was only added after the > Apple IIc was released. > A quick test with an ohmeter will verify if pins 1 and 3 are connected > in the plugs of the mice you have that don't work, versus the ones that > do work. > From Rubywand's FAQs: > What is the pinout for the IIe, //c, Laser and similar 9-pin mouses? > The IIe/IIc/Mac Plus mouses can plug into the //c or IIc+ Game/Mouse > Port or, > on a IIe, into the 9-pin socket of a Mouse Card. When plugged into the // > c or > IIc+, several Game Port pins are redefined for use with a mouse. > Dsub-9 Female Socket on Computer Dsub-9 Male Plug on Mouse > ,---------------------. ,---------------------. > \ 5 4 3 2 1 / \ 1 2 3 4 5 / > \ 9 8 7 6 / \ 6 7 8 9 / > `-----------------' `-----------------' > Mouse Usual //c, IIc+ Game Port Function > 1 MOUSE ID Pushbutton 1 > 2 +5V +5V > 3 GND GND > 4 XDIR no Game Port function on //c, IIc+; > this TTL-compatible input can be read at $C066 > 5 XMOVE Game Control 0 or PDL0 (Joystick X-axis) > 6 n.c. (no Game Port function on //c, IIc+) > 7 MOUSE BUTTON Pushbutton 0 > 8 YDIR Game Control 1 or PDL1 (Joystick Y-axis) > 9 YMOVE no Game Port function on //c, IIc+; > this TTL-compatible input can be read at $C067 after reading this thread I realised that I had the same problem with the lack of vertical mouse control on my //c, in that the cursor ended at the bottom of the screen and wouldn't move up. not realising that it could have been the type of Mouse II that was the culprit, I had always thought there was a problem in the //c. scrounging through my collection of 5 Mouse IIs, or is that Mice IIs :), I tried all of them in turn and found that 2 worked and 3 didn't. had I only known before !, like 12 months ago. oh well now I do :) as far as which ones worked and those that didn't I found: - a Beige M0100 made in Japan with a 590-055-A cord did not work, - 2x Platinum M0100 made in Japan with a 590-055-A cord that did not work, - a Beige M0100 made in USA with a 590-0320 cord that worked, - an all Cream (incl button) A2M4015 that worked. also I tested for continuity between pin 1 and pin 3 on all 5 Mice, and they were all short circuit. so I didn't really find anything other than the cord part number that helped identify those that worked, but I guess 5 is only a small sample. I would really like to find out what that mod is for the //c that allows any Mouse II to work, because I'd prefer one of the Platinum Mice were connected to it to match my //c's Platinum keyboard colour. It's off to RubyWand FAQ for more research. I havn't repeated the test on the Mouse II interface card on the //e or the Mouse Port on my Mac Plus, but I suspect they will all work from reading the comments of others here. thanks Roger and Simon and others for this small bit of info that got my //c going 100%. Mark > - a Beige M0100 made in Japan with a 590-055-A cord did not work, > - 2x Platinum M0100 made in Japan with a 590-055-A cord that did not work, oops, that should be 590-0055-A (an extra 0) for those two lines. In article <20040511202856.13561.00000413@mb-m27.aol.com>, mjmahon@aol.com (Michael J. Mahon) writes: > Simon wrote: > > >Rob Steinmetz wrote: > > > >> Did Apple ever manufacture a mouse specifically for the Apple > >> //c or //c+? > >> > >> I know the original Apple Mouse will work, I was just wondering > >> if one was ever made which matched the Arctic White color of the > >> //c. Similar to the 5 1/4" disk drive with a latch which matched > >> the //c which was available. > > > >Actually, not all mice work with the //c, though I don't recall > >specifically what the differences are, I know that I've had mice that > >work on a IIe but not a //c and also some that work on a Mac Plus, but > >not on a IIe... or something like that. > > Yes--I suspect that the problem arose because of the //c using > the joystick connector for the mouse. It's a neat trick, but a > few wires are bound to be different, and perhaps all mice didn't > ignore the ones that were not supposed to matter. I've made some experiments a few months ago, when I got an Apple IIc with GEOS on floppies but without mouse. I tried to convert an Amiga mouse, as I had a surplus one and it seemed to be electrically compatible with just a different connector and pinout. I made a simple pinout converter from two DB9M connectors and some wire. It didn't work. The mouse button was OK, but the cursor always wondered to one direction (to the right or down) wherever I tried to move the mouse. A bit later I could persuade a local Apple dealer to lend me the original mouse of an Apple IIc (from their Apple hardware museum ;-). It was a "white body, beige-grey button" type thing. I've opened its case - without them knowing, of course ;-) - and checked the PCB. Then I could find the cause of the problem: Amiga and Apple IIc mice are NOT electrically compatible! \begin{boring_technical_stuff} The root cause is that the Apple IIc uses the *analogue* joystick inputs for processing the *digital* quadrature signals coming from the mouse. (It is a rather weird idea from an engineer's point of view - in joysticks, a pair of variable resistors is connected to these inputs that control timer circuits so that the length of the timers is proportional to the X/Y position of the stick. Mice, however, produce a series of quadrature impulses so that the frequency of the impulses is proportional to the speed of mouse movement.) The mouse port of the Amiga computers - and supposedly also ancient Macs, and maybe Apple IIe's and Apple II mouse cards - expects the quadrature signals to come from CMOS outputs; however, Apple IIc's analogue joystick inputs expect them from TTL outputs. As both TTL ans CMOS outputs can drive CMOS inputs but TTL inputs cannot be driven properly by a CMOS output, it is quite reasonable that some of the MacPlus/IIe mice (with TTL ICs in them) work with the IIc while others (with CMOS ICs) do not. \end{boring_technical_stuff} I checked this theory by making a simple CMOS->TTL signal converter (with which I could attach my Amiga mouse to the IIc) and cross-checked it by wiring an even simpler pinout converter (with which I could connect the Apple IIc mouse to my Amiga, even if it did not make any sense ;). Regards, Andras Petri