David Empson wrote: > Has anyone else had P8 2.x running successfully on a II+ with replaced > CPU? If so, what CPU was involved? > > I suspect that P8 2.x will work fine in a II+ if a 65802 or Zip chip is > used. Most (all?) non-Rockwell 65C02s don't work at all in a II+, due > to timing or electrical signal problems. > There's a neat one-jumper-wire fix which permits a II+ to run properly with a 65C02, Rockwell or otherwise. I think I may have found the information in Bob Sander-Cederlof's Assembly Lines newsletter. At any rate, I have a modified machine in the garage which worked great for years. Steve > The real reason for this is to use a CFFA card in this machine, > which requires 65c02 but its not working correctly (yet) I've worked with Rich Dreher on that problem for a while and I've also installed a Rockwell 65C02 in my IIplus with weird results. It seems to work for a few seconds then looses the ability to do prodos commands. I've read old articles relating to issues with a 65C02 in a IIplus and the problem appears to be a memory timing issue. It may be possible to replace the 74LS257's at locations B6 and B7 on the main board with a faster version like a HCT series. I haven't tried this yet but I plan to within the next couple of weeks. Vince -- Replica I The Apple I clone http://www.applefritter.com/apple1/members/replica1/index.htm "Vince Briel" wrote in message news:jmRpc.62354$iF6.5503204@attbi_s02... : : > > One of the problems is that the CFFA's firmware : > > utilizes AUX RAM, which does not exist in the : > > Apple II or II+. : : Maybe so, but the fact that it works, even if only : for a couple of minutes indicates that AUX RAM is : not the issue. If it utilized AUX RAM it wouldn't : work period, not have times when it works, others : when it gives an I/O error. : > : > > Timing is also an issue, however, I feel that : > > timing would also be an issue in the 1 MHz IIe : > > enhanced machine and it is not. : > : > Why would you say that? : : The issue is RAM access and the reason it doesn't : happen on the IIe enhanced is the completely different : structure for accessing RAM and the fact that they use : 4164's not 4116's. Custom IC's, reduced overall chip : count and improved overall system in the IIe is the : difference. Ok, I have narrowed the problem down to definitely timing due to the excess of ICs used in the II+'s and possibly also due to the many different ram ICs that are used in them. I had my CFFA in a IIe with only a GTE 65C02 -2 and no 80 col/64K at all, and it ran fine. It was an older IIe board from 1982 so it was unenhanced other than the 65C02. My next attempt will be to replace the '257s with a faster and more precise model such as the "HCT" or "F" type. I think it was the "F" that was recommended. There is also a jumper recommended I believe to enhance the timing but I can't remember offhand. I have the doc here for that somewhere. My II+ has a whole bunch of different 4116's in it, and that is probably not helping. I'll see if I can find some all the same for the testing. Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-) Web Site - http://garberstreet.netfirms.com Email - willy46pa @ comcast DOT net Change DOT to a dot to contact me --- This email ain't infected, dude! Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.678 / Virus Database: 440 - Release Date: 5/6/04 In article , willy46pa@comcast says... > : > > One of the problems is that the CFFA's firmware > : > > utilizes AUX RAM, which does not exist in the > : > > Apple II or II+. Hi All, The CFFA firmware doesn't use any part AUX RAM. Maybe Bill was thinking of AuxROM? or scratchpad RAM or somthing. The more I look into which 65C02 should work in the Apple ][+, the most confused I get. I have found several conflicting articles on this, and my own tests have not found a combination that works with only a chip change. Maybe the "65C02 in a ][+" question would be a good question for the Woz himself... If anybody does hit on the right mods, please post something in the CFFA forum. Thanks, Rich Dreher rich@dreher.net "Rich" wrote in message news:MPG.1b137746b4a3067f989682@news.visi.com... : In article , willy46pa@comcast : says... : > : > > One of the problems is that the CFFA's firmware : > : > > utilizes AUX RAM, which does not exist in the : > : > > Apple II or II+. : : Hi All, : : The CFFA firmware doesn't use any part AUX RAM. Maybe Bill : was thinking of AuxROM? or scratchpad RAM or somthing. Yes, I believe I was confusing it with scratchpad RAM. : The more I look into which 65C02 should work in the : Apple ][+, the most confused I get. I have found : several conflicting articles on this, and my own : tests have not found a combination that works with : only a chip change. Maybe the "65C02 in a ][+" : question would be a good question for the Woz himself... I am getting very good results in my II+ with a GTE 65SC02P-2. : If anybody does hit on the right mods, please post : something in the CFFA forum. I've hit on a combination that allows the CFFA to work. First, the above mentioned CPU; Disk II in slot 6; CFFA in slot 5 with reset jumper removed, only using an 8MB Sandisk CF card; SpeedDemon in slot 4 with SW5 & SW6 on to slow down Disk Access, no 80 column card, and a Saturn 32K ram card in slot 0, with it's switch down. This combo passed every test I could throw at it so I am very fully confident that it should work fine. Only problem is, can it be duplicated on another II+. We shall find out soon. Vince Briel has bought my SpeedDemon, already has a Saturn 32K card, and a GTE 65SC02, so let's hope he will have some good news for us. He is also replacing his 74LS257 ICs with HCT versions in hopes that this coupled with the GTE cpu will allow the CFFA to run without the SpeedDemon. Oh, I have no clue if this helped, but I did change the Smartport setup bytes from: A9,20,A2,00,A9,03,A9,00 to C9,20,C9,00,C9,03,C9,00 If this was meaningless, I have no idea, but it did seem to help before I added the SpeedDemon to the mix. Anyway, this worked for me, and I can't guarantee it will work for anyone else. Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-) Web Site - http://garberstreet.netfirms.com Email - willy46pa @ comcast DOT net Change DOT to a dot to contact me --- This email ain't infected, dude! Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.678 / Virus Database: 440 - Release Date: 5/6/04 Bill Garber wrote: > I've hit on a combination that allows the CFFA to work. > First, the above mentioned CPU; Mine is a Rockwell, I'd have to pull it to get the full designation. > Disk II in slot 6; That matches my setup. > CFFA in slot 5 Tried that too, although I would prefer slot 7 > with reset jumper removed, Didn't try that. > only using an 8MB Sandisk CF card; I have a 256MB did you try other sizes? > SpeedDemon in slot 4 with SW5 & SW6 on > to slow down Disk Access, I'm jealous I want one. Didi it not work without the SpeedDemon? I tried a Zip Chip no change in results. In fact I get pretty much the same results with the original 6502, except that ProDOS 2.0.x works with the 65c02. That supports the timing hypothesis. > no 80 column card, I tried it with and without a Videx 80 column, same results. > and a Saturn 32K ram card in slot 0, Tried with a Saturn 128 kb card in slot 0 or a 16kb RAM card or neither, neither worked > with it's switch down. My Saturn has no switch. > This combo passed every test I could throw at it so I am very fully > confident that it should work fine. I never got mine to work, only close to working. It does work just fine in my Laser 128 in Slot 7. With ProDOS 2.0.x it shows all 8 partitions. > Only problem is, can it be duplicated on another II+. I have a ][ > We shall find out soon. > Vince Briel has bought my SpeedDemon, I'm disappointed you didn't sell it to me. I had no idea it was for sale. > already has a Saturn 32K card, and a GTE 65SC02, so let's hope he will have > some good news for us. He is also replacing his 74LS257 > ICs with HCT versions in hopes that this coupled with the > GTE cpu will allow the CFFA to run without the SpeedDemon. > > Oh, I have no clue if this helped, but I did change the > Smartport setup bytes from: > > A9,20,A2,00,A9,03,A9,00 to C9,20,C9,00,C9,03,C9,00 Can you explain what this does? > If this was meaningless, I have no idea, but it did seem > to help before I added the SpeedDemon to the mix. Anyway, > this worked for me, and I can't guarantee it will work > for anyone else. -- Rob "Never ascribe to malice that which can adequately be explained by stupidity." "Robert Steinmetz" wrote in message news:40AAAE92.3020802@mindspring.com... : Bill Garber wrote: : : > I've hit on a combination that allows the CFFA to work. : > First, the above mentioned CPU; : Mine is a Rockwell, I'd have to pull it to get the full designation. : > Disk II in slot 6; : That matches my setup. : > CFFA in slot 5 : Tried that too, although I would prefer slot 7 : > with reset jumper removed, : Didn't try that. Please try this before you give up. I doubt you'll get 8 volumes in a II, the II+ can only give 4 in slot 5. : > only using an 8MB Sandisk CF card; : I have a 256MB did you try other sizes? If 8MB works, 128MB should too. : > SpeedDemon in slot 4 with SW5 & SW6 on : > to slow down Disk Access, : I'm jealous I want one. Didi it not work without the SpeedDemon? : I tried a Zip Chip no change in results. In fact I get pretty : much the same results with the original 6502, except that ProDOS : 2.0.x works with the 65c02. That supports the timing hypothesis. Well, I won't have one either now, don't feel badly. You can set your ZIP Chip to slots 5&6 slow. : > no 80 column card, : I tried it with and without a Videx 80 column, same results. : > and a Saturn 32K ram card in slot 0, : Tried with a Saturn 128 kb card in slot 0 or a 16kb RAM card or : neither, neither worked : > with it's switch down. : My Saturn has no switch. : > This combo passed every test I could throw at it so I am very fully : > confident that it should work fine. : I never got mine to work, only close to working. It does work : just fine in my Laser 128 in Slot 7. With ProDOS 2.0.x it shows : all 8 partitions. Well, hell. Run the Laser then. :) : > Only problem is, can it be duplicated on another II+. : I have a ][ If I had a II, it would be wrapped air-tight and locked in a safe somewhere. :) : > We shall find out soon. : > Vince Briel has bought my SpeedDemon, : I'm disappointed you didn't sell it to me. I had no idea it was : for sale. I wasn't for sale. One of those spur of the moment deals. He had stuff for me, so I made him a part cash/part stuff deal. Sorry 'bout that. I have a IIgs upgrade machine you can buy. Got $350.00 ??? : > already has a Saturn 32K card, and a GTE 65SC02, so : > let's hope he will have : > some good news for us. He is also replacing his 74LS257 : > ICs with HCT versions in hopes that this coupled with the : > GTE cpu will allow the CFFA to run without the SpeedDemon. : > : > Oh, I have no clue if this helped, but I did change the : > Smartport setup bytes from: : > : > A9,20,A2,00,A9,03,A9,00 to C9,20,C9,00,C9,03,C9,00 : : Can you explain what this does? I'm not exactly sure it means anything at all. I just copied what I saw in some other smartport drive firmware. Anyway, it still works with the original ROM so forget that part. LOL Bill @ GarberStreet Enterprizez };-) Web Site - http://garberstreet.netfirms.com Email - willy46pa @ comcast DOT net Change DOT to a dot to contact me --- This email ain't infected, dude! Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.678 / Virus Database: 440 - Release Date: 5/6/04