Apple II Music & Sound and Hardware combined conference April 25, 1990 10:00pm ET Guests: Nancy Stark and Jane Lee (JLPossum) from Apple Computer, Inc. USA Marketing and Mike Homer - USA Director of Product Marketing Forum Leaders: Tim Barwick (AFL TimB) Music & Sound Tracy Poe (AFL TracyP) Hardware OnlineHost Welcome to the Forum Auditorium. Tonight's discussion is with Nancy Stark and Jane Lee from Apple USA Marketing. They are here tonight to discuss Apple's marketing plans for the Apple II. The best question tonight will win a DMA SCSI card, courtesy of Apple. Please note that you must be present at the end of the chat to win the DMA SCSI card. AFL TimB This will be judged by Tracy Poe, Apple II Hardware Forum Leader. Let me just set the stage for y'all. Many people feel that the past few years have not been banner ones for the Apple II. Apple has seemed to lack direction from a marketing point of view to most users. In this time we've seen many developers and users leave the system. Nancy and Jane have recently joined Apple's Apple II team and they're going to discuss with us their ideas and thoughts on the Apple II. They're also here to hear out ideas. Let's try to make the a positive experience. AFL TimB Nancy, Jane your thoughts before we start with the questions. JLPossum WE are very glad to be here with all of you tonight. We are most interested in sharing some of our plans, the ones we can talk about, and getting feedback from all of you on our directions. Question What can we, the users, do to convince our friends that the Apple II has a future? I am running very thin on evidence, but want to help. JLPossum We are currently doing some things, such as an open letter from John Sculley in the next edition of the Apple IIgs buyers guide that discussed Apple's commitment to the Apple II and our direction for the Apple II family. We also have placed advertising in that edition, and will be looking for future opportunities to advertise in trade publications. On the whole, we hope to be supplying you with more evidence to support the future of the Apple II. We recently attended at and presented at NAUGC in Chicago and shared some of our Apple II marketing plans and directions. And we plan to do future activities with User Groups that will promote the Apple II. AFL TimB JLP: Can you give us an outline of John Sculley's letter to IIGS Buyers Guide? JLPossum I think we will cover most of the flavor of it tonight in our discussion and you can read it soon. If Apple IIgs Buyers Guide agrees, perhaps it can be posted on America Online. Question Does Apple plan to do any extensive marketing for the //gs line, and if so, when will we see some CONCRETE signs that anyone cares about this platform? JLPossum We have what we consider to be considerable marketing plans but if you mean a national TV advertising campaign for the IIgs, no we don't currently have plans for that. As you may know Apple does not do a ton of TV advertising anyway due to the cost. Also, I would like to point out that a lot of people at Apple do care about the IIgs and I think that we have significant plans for marketing the entire Apple II line. Comment I just want to say thanks for coming! Your very presence here on America online is an indication of Apple's commitment. Frankly, this is unprecedented and again, THANK YOU!!! Question In a summary sheet dated 4/3/90 from Apple..it states, "..Apple cannot discuss unannounced products or future product plans. However, we can say that our 1990 marketing plans for the Apple II computer line will focus on support for Apple II users and will build on the synergy between Mac and Apple II computers." Can you explain what is meant by that last statement? JLPossum We welcome the opportunity to talk to Apple II users about what we're doing. WE are proud that our systems work very well together in networking environments and share peripherals. We think that the combination of Apple II and Macintosh together is unbeatable! AFL TimB JLP: However it seemed that the letter meant more than just networking didn't it? JLPossum It meant that the two products can co-exist. That we didn't have to be ashamed of one to be proud of the other. Also, we think that in the education marketplace these products together can cover the needs of the whole organization. AFL TracyP Oooh, am I ever =proud= to hear that! Question How does the Apple II fit into Apple's vision of personal computing? (ie: what is the Apple II's place in the overall picture?) JLPossum We believe that the Apple II fills the needs of many customers for a low cost solution. We think that this has value which is fitting with the history of the Apple II. And Apple has always had a vision of offering users outstanding value in their personal computing experience. Question Apple has "cracked" their "No comment on future projects" rule with Mac Systems, and with GSOS. May I suggest that Apple make a "one-time only" exception to the rule and showcase their Apple II devel plans?? JLPossum Although it is true that we have announced products prior to ship dates in the past this has always come back to haunt us. So as a rule we really do not want to discuss future products. Question There seems to be a lot of problems with support for the Apple II line at the dealership level. What does Apple plan to do to remedy this? JLPossum You're right, there are definitely problems with some dealerships. We are currently exploring ideas to make support in general a more appealing proposition for the dealers. Plus we are exploring other ways of reaching end users with the support they need. I don't have any concrete plans that I can disclose on this but I would love to hear suggestions on ways to improve support. AFL TracyP Suggestions: 1) Give dealers a similar profit margin on Mac and Apple IIs, that way, they don't steer a user to a computer just because of the help given to the pocketbook. They are then free to push the "right" computer for the user. 2) Educate the dealers a bit better as to the capabilities of the Apple II. Oftimes dealers won't even have a GS powered up on the floor, much less show it in a "power" configuration with a hard drive, etc. I could go on, but... JLPossum What if that made Apple II prices go up? It is currently required for dealers to have a IIgs on the floor. Unfortunately we don't have an army of people to police them. Comment Dealer support is directly proportional to the support the dealer perceives that 1) Apple is providing, and 2) the level of support that Apple demands the dealer provide. AFL TracyP Agreed. Comment An improvement would be Apple II only dealers so the dealer didn't ignore the machine. JLPossum Dealer support is directly proportional to the profitability of the business. Comment You might want to let them know about new products as they come out. The three dealerships near me are not yet aware that Apple manufactures a DMA SCSI card. Question Will Apple make any effort to push the II as a small business machine or solicit developers to appropriate software for this purpose? JLPossum No, we will not "push" the II as a small business machine but we recognize that some people will use it as such and be very happy. AFL TimB JLP: What does Apple consider as the primary focus of marketing for the Apple II? AFL TracyP Is that a considered decision? JLPossum Education and education related usage such as home. AFL TimB Is Home/Office considered as part of this focus? JLPossum Considered? If you mean have we thought about it long and hard, yes. Home office, we think some people will buy it because of the education value and use it for work at home. Question Why did Apple just seem to stop supporting the AppleII at the end of 1988 when it seemed to be doing superb? JLPossum Beats us...we blew it. AFL TimB WOW! AFL TracyP That was prior to your regime eh?? Do you look back and try to pinpoint where the error was made?? JLPossum Well, sort of. Although both of us worked at Apple in different positions then. Sometimes. But we don't like to dwell on spilt milk. Question With the increased power of GS/OS 5.02, and the rumors of GS/OS 6 with greater connectivity to Macs, is a fully loaded IIgs moving very close to becoming that long sought low cost entry level color Mac? JLPossum Wow, lot's of assumptions in that one. I think I'll pass. Remember we said no comment on unannounced products. AFL TracyP It certainly should be considered so, if not! Comment Education is a market that is being chipped away on a daily basis by IBM and their clones. Marketing the GS as a "Home" computer I.E. Small Business, Education, light word processing would be a better focus. JLPossum Education is absolutely a key market to Apple. The Apple II's strong tradition in that market is an important asset. We're fighting tooth and nail with IBM. And won't roll over and play dead. Comment I truly think Apple should re-focus on evangelizing the GS as the LOW COST Mac. The platform is ready to take on any task that is properly programmed and has installed base of users both in education and business. JLPossum Apple IIgs is not a Macintosh. Just like Macintosh is not an Apple IIgs. Question I'm a sysop on a small BBS, and really need multi-tasking, even if it's pretty slow, does Apple intend to try to implement a multifinder on the GS? JLPossum No comments on future product plans. AFL TimB JLP: What do you think of the Apple II market right now? JLPossum It's interesting. Strong in its traditional markets, struggling in some others. AFL TimB While this isn't a specifically music and sound chat I do have to ask, Jane, I know you were trying out the new sound tool today, did you get it set up and what did you think of it? And is there a release date on it? JLPossum Yes Tim. I played it today. Jim Merrit also got a chance to demo it's power for me today. It's tremendous. I hope lots of developers will use it. AFL TimB Release date? JLPossum Don't know. Remember, I just saw it for the first time today. I haven't had a chance to ask. and I couldn't tell you if I knew. Question Has Apple done a 180 on AGGRESSIVELY marketing the GS in education, including evangelizing developers back to the "fold"? JLPossum Currently, Apple education is sharing their plans for the future with lots of key educators throughout the U.S. We want to help them plan for the future. The Apple II has a place in the future for educators. There is also a tremendous installed base that we MUST help them use successfully. Question Does Apple have any plans to use the leverage, persistence, and general parental control exercised by children over adults (who get the Apple experience in school) to make inroads in the "home" computer market? AFA Gene Coach is right though... if a parent wants to know something about the computer all he/she has to do is ask the child! JLPossum No we're not into coercing children. But seriously we'll use any leverage we can get within reason. AFL TracyP I think Coach was suggesting using the kids to coerce the adults!: JLPossum Mike Homer, USA Director of Product Marketing just joined us any questions for him. Question Has Apple considered mass marketing the Apple ][gs computer? (Sears, etc). JLPossum We're considering all options. AFA Gene What does that mean? JLPossum It means that we have looked at it and will continue to, but that it doesn't make sense so far...mostly because of conflicts with the dealer base. Question Will a similar advertising/open letter also be placed in A+/Incider magazine, considering it has a slightly higher readership and is not in flux, like GS buyers guide is? JLPossum Possibly. AFL TimB We HAVE a prize winner.... AFL TracyP First, apologies to those who didn't get their questions asked so far. We'll try to get more of them before Jane and company have to leave tonight. The winning question was, judged to be so because of the response it elicited....A rather frank "we blew it" was the answer to David White [HaveGSPlus] question about Apple's support of the GS apparently waning in 1988. David White is the winner of the Apple DMA SCSI card! Question Since the ][ series is the only true personal computer, why doesn't Apple advertise in general publications like Popular Science, Omni, People and Time? Where the average person will see it! JLPossum The average person doesn't read Omni, Pop Science, People OR Time!! AFL TimB I'd disagree on the last two. I read People magazine every week. AFA Gene I read Time magazine each week. JLPossum Will not we get into a discussion of what's average. AFL TimB Is this a cost issue? JLPossum Well it's always an issue of how best to spend your dollars to reach your audience effectively. AFL TracyP Making such a statement intimates that you =have= determined how best to reach the =average= person. How, in Apple's view? JLPossum Yes, from the point of view of what our research says on target markets, customers, etc. Question Why will Apple not be at AppleFest? JLPossum Yes, you are correct that Apple will not be in attendance at Applefest. The reasons are many...it's not just an Apple show, better ways to use the money to reach our target audience and in general we are doing fewer tradeshows. One note: AppleFest is not put on by Apple Computer. AFL TimB Applefest is the only national consumer-based Apple II show. This sends a very bad message to the market in general. AFA Gene And the show =is= named after Apple. Moreso, this show is aimed at educators, your target audience. JLPossum I think that it is important for people to realize that Apple is doing a lot of belt tightening right now and tradeshows cost an exorbitant amount of money. Jane and I made a judgment that there are better ways for us to spend our marketing dollars reaching new users and educators. Question Apple seems to want a Macintosh in every Apple II ad. Is there going to be advertisements that are II ONLY, and not (Buy a IIgs, if you cannot afford a MAC.) JLPossum I think that we will feature both products. And it is important to note that some Macintoshes are less expensive than a IIgs. AFL TimB Are they color? JLPossum Not today. Comment Why did you put the letter in the IIgs Buyers guide? Wouldn't the Wall Street Journal have been better? I mean that would have told the whole world, not just the select few Apple II users that read the IIgs buyer's guide. JLPossum The IIgs buyers guide approached us and we thought it was a great opportunity to reach Apple II people. Unfortunately the Wall Street Journal didn't approach us. But we are looking at other ways to get the message out to the field through ALL our marketing channels. Question How does Apple plan to woo developers back to the Apple II? Currently there is a trend for them to abandon it, citing "non-support" for the II and increasing emphasis on the Mac. JLPossum By convincing of the business proposition of the Apple II installed base. We will also be offering them some codevelopment tools so they can participate in both Apple II and Macintosh markets. AFL TimB How will the average GS owner feel in the next six months regarding upcoming product, positive? JLPossum I don't know...kind of a sneaky question on future product plans. (smile) AFL TimB NO! Just a idea of if I'm going to smile in six months! JLPossum I hope so. Question What is the ratio of the advertising budget between the Mac and the Apple II? How much money is spent on advertising each? JLPossum I don't know, I don't see the overall ad budget. The point here is shouldn't we be spending more on Apple II, right? AFL TracyP Jane, I've heard you and Nancy and Mike say tonight that you are looking/exploring/trying to find ways to bring the Apple II "back to life," after your admission that previous Apple II marketers had "blown it." My point is, Apple's window of opportunity for the Apple II has narrowed considerably due to that neglect, and is in danger of closing altogether, in my humble opinion. When will we begin to see the fruits of your consideration in this area? JLPossum We think that they are starting to appear already. We're here tonite. The IIgs Buyers Guide will be out next week. And much work is being done behind the scenes. AFL TracyP Do you acknowledge that there's a steep hill to climb to get back to where the Apple II was a couple of years ago? JLPossum I'm not sure that we'll meet up to your expectations but I think we are honestly doing the right things and doing justice to the tradition of the Apple II by tackling this as a grass roots effort. Question When will Apple realize that the average Apple II user doesn't want a Mac. JLPossum That's why we sell an Apple II. AFL TimB But you seem to be trying to move the A2 market into the Mac, no? JLPossum I think that we believe Macintosh is a great product and that it meets the needs of some users as does the Apple II but in a different ways. AFL TimB Let the records show that there are still over 100 unanswered questions in the q. Will you all join us again soon to answer some more questions and listen to some more ideas? JLPossum OK, look forward to it. AFL TimB Great! Folks, keep your eyes open for another discussion with Mike/Nancy/Jane. AFL TracyP We hope that you understand that the some of the sentiments expressed tonight were as a result of past Apple aggravations. JLPossum We absolutely understand. AFL TracyP We acknowledge that Apple seems to be trying mightily to right the Apple II ship. We hope that you have great success, and we're pulling for you. And especially thanks for visiting with us tonight! AFL TimB That's so true. We want the Apple II to thrive. JLPossum We are in it together and we DO care what our customers think. AFL TimB OK, thanks guys for attending. I hope to see lots of people at Applefest. The America Online Forums are going to be there in a big way! Lotsa stuff happening including demos, parties, all sorts of stuff. And don't forget II Infinitum !! America Online, 1990