=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- APPLE II MUSIC & SOUND FORUM CONFERENCE LOG October 30, 1991 10 PM ET Topic: The DYA Connection and NoiseTracker Forum Leader: Joyce Madden (AFL JoyceM), Forum Assistant: Gene Koh (AFA Gene) Forum Consultants: Greg Dib (ELECTMUSIC), Ed Rosenblatt (AFC Eddie), Lindsay Hough (LindsayGS) Copyright (c) 1991 America Online All Rights Reserved =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Dr Teeth So, has anyone had any REAL time to figure out everything on NoiseTracker,yet? AFC Eddie Well, we're trying, Dr Teeth! ELECTMUSIC I tried it Dr Teeth Kinda makes you wonder why French people refuse to write programs without docs. ELECTMUSIC That's what I was wondering. Where are the Doc's? AFC Eddie Well, supposedly it's a beta program. Dr Teeth Maybe Gog thought the DOC's were inside the machine ;) AFA Gene It's definitely not a finished program... a number of features aren't even operational yet. AFC Eddie There is some info you get when you press "T", or so I hear. AFA Gene I like the dancing notes when you click the NoiseTracker icon in the graphic player. Dr Teeth And besides, beta or not, if you release something, you at least ought to say something. AFC Eddie You're right, Teeth! Dr Teeth BTW, has anyone noticed a 'popping' noise when playing SS songs with NT, that have a lot of sustained notes? Under GSOS that is... AFA Gene I believe the version we have greg is v0.3. AFA Gene Or to be more specific, "version October 4, 1991" Dr Teeth I think that the non-graphic player said .2 and the graphic players said .3 AFC Eddie Well, in any case nowhere near completion. Dr Teeth Right, but OOOOOOOHHH with a few more revisions.......... AFC Eddie <------already thinking of MIDI input. AFL JoyceM :) ELECTMUSIC Eddie... are you saying a future version will have Midi? AFC Eddie No, I'm saying I'm dreaming of such a version. AFC Eddie :) Dr Teeth I Have a feeling that Gog's idea is a 'catch-all' program, one that will play almost anything. AFL JoyceM We will be announcing our Mozart Contest winners very shortly and then we can visit with our new Direct Connect area, DYA...Digital Youth Alliance :) Gene, do you have our winners? AFC DYAJim Mine isn't the best, since I didn't do any editing at all, but I still like it :) AFL JoyceM I liked it too, Jim...some editing would have been nice in a few areas...hope I am not being too critical - I know that it is << a VERY hard piece to play...nice listening :) Dr Teeth I think that Mozart DID use too many notes..) AFA Gene Yep, Joyce.... here we go: AFA Gene AFA Gene AFA Gene The WINNER of the Mozart Contest is..... AFC DYAJim Yeah.. and the contest was over AFC DYAJim before I could finish the song! AFC DYAJim (finish learning, that is) AFL JoyceM :) DangardAce Dum de dum DangardAce Looks like the usual cast of suspects :) AFC DYAJim I've been playing it for like almost 2 months now, and it still isn't done :) ELECTMUSIC \../ ELECTMUSIC Drum Roll AFA Gene Screename Alan Breck (aka Dr Teeth) for his entry "Romanze from Divertimento V" AFC Eddie Yeah, DrTeeth!!! DangardAce ()()()()()()()() Doc Teeth AFA Gene Congratulations Teeth, you win five free hours! ELECTMUSIC Congrats Dr. AFC DYAJim WTG DangardAce Hiya Jimbo AFC Eddie Congratulations! AFC DYAJim ()() Dr Teeth Hey, what can I say. And for my second SoundSmith song ever, too... AFL JoyceM Congrats,. What screen name do you want those hours credited to, Teeth? AFC DYAJim What format did you use, Alan? :-) All soundsmith? Cool.. Dr Teeth Better give them too the Dr. Teeth account. AFL JoyceM Okay, we will. Must have taken your long hours to input that in SS? AFA Gene "Romanze" won for it's clever use of SoundSmith to approximate (not an easy task considering the environment, SoundSmith) that baroque classical style, which is so conspicuously absent from the vast majority of SS songfiles. Dr Teeth Yep, all soundsmith. Which wasn't easy, due to the fact that SS HATES Sustained Instruments AFC DYAJim Why does it hate them? AFC DYAJim Aren't they just hard to produce with the limited sound editing software on the GS? Dr Teeth It has a tendency to make the next note after a STP command sound weird AFC DYAJim Ahh.. Dr Teeth And actually, if you play the same song on NoiseTracker, the wonky notes are gone and it sounds much better AFC DYAJim (Hmm, I wonder if my players do that too :) ELECTMUSIC What's "STP" command? Dr Teeth NoiseTracker plays SS better than SS. STP: Stop playing note HERE NOW>>> ELECTMUSIC Ok, thanks Dr Teeth BTW, who got second... AFA Gene There are actually bugs in SS's SS player. :) Second place was tough to decide, so Joyce came up with the idea to make it a three-way tie! Luckily, however, all three second place winners are overhead accounts, so we don't have to worry about splitting the prize three ways. :) Dr Teeth I've noticed that the SS player doesn't start each note at the beginning of the instrument wave, it starts it sometimes in the middle or so. AFC DYAJim Ack.. aol missed me AFA Gene AFC Eddie, ELECTMUSIC, and AFC DYAJim, congrats! :) ELECTMUSIC Dr. I admire the way you had to enter in all of the musical info for SS AFC DYAJim And I missed it.. :( AFL JoyceM Congrats.... AFC DYAJim it would do that AFL JoyceM Sorry, Jim... Dr Teeth And Actually I only worked 4 days for a total of 6 hours on it. And most of it repeated itself, severely. Mozart's fault, not mine. ELECTMUSIC I would have a very difficult time entering the musical info in a spreadsheet format. Thanks Joyce. AFC DYAJim I've been practicing mine since the beginning September (on and off though). So what was the winning order? Dr Teeth And actually, after you learn Huiberts shorthand on entering data, it's not too bad, except that there is no 'B'. AFC DYAJim I wonder if my SS players also have such STP problems :) AFA Gene You missed it Jim, so here's the recap before we move on to other business: AFA Gene AMS Mozart Contest: AFA Gene First Prize: Alan Breck AFA Gene Second Prize: <3-way tie> AFC Eddie, ELECTMUSIC, AFC DYAJim AFC Eddie I'm in good company! AFL JoyceM And the booby prize to me :) ELECTMUSIC We all are :) AFC Eddie Joyce, you're MS song was really nice! AFL JoyceM Everyone is in good company - great efforts :) AFL JoyceM Thanks, Eddie ELECTMUSIC Now I would like to see a "Stack" with some of this Mozart music played in the background Dr Teeth Ack, I used MS a long time ago, and it had PROBLEMS.....Soundwise.. AFC DYAJim so did you use looping instruments or not? AFL JoyceM That would be a great idea, Greg....have you offered? ELECTMUSIC Maybe over the Holiday's Dr Teeth Oh, yeah. I used AudioZap to loop the instruments (I'm going to register it, promise), and worked from there. ELECTMUSIC Ya need some time AFL JoyceM Then we will get with our Guest, AFC DYAJim ELECTMUSIC Joyce... if ya can send me some graphic pics of Mozart? AFL JoyceM Making a note right now, Greg ... AFL JoyceM Great effort, Teeth. Thanks Dr Teeth And thank you for the opportunity, and the carrot in front of my nose... AFL JoyceM Our next Contest, starting November 1st will be Holiday Music and will end the end of December. AFC DYAJim Holiday music.. hmm Dr Teeth Double Hmmmmmm..... AFL JoyceM In that case... AFL JoyceM I would like to welcome to AMS, in our Direct Connect Area... AFL JoyceM DYA, Digital Youth Alliance, and AFC DYAJim... ELECTMUSIC () () () ()...... Welcome AFC DYAJim I can speak for us all in that we're glad to be here! AFC DYAJim I hope that this allows us to better integrate support for all our projects, especially the DYA SoundSmith ASIF Instrument Disk Volume 1! We've got a couple other sound projects up our sleeve for the future to keep things moving along as well :-) But Matt and Derek hate it when I go overboard and talk about unannounced projects, so I'll keep them a surprise :) AFL JoyceM And what are those, Jim (if you can tell us)... ELECTMUSIC Jim, could you briefly introduce your company and give us some direction you plan to go? Bugs Bugz I have a question about Diversi tune... can I ask a question about that? AFL JoyceM Let's help Bugs and then we can get back to Jim. Sure, Bugs...go Bugs Bugz I'm having problems getting it booted (demo on AO) I keep getting out of memory. 512k required.... I have 5 megs on board... sorry to interrupt..;) AFC Eddie Bugs,are you using any DA's or INIT's? Bugs Bugz uh yeah hmmm EL Macro, Zip GS AFC Eddie What happens when you run the program? Bugs Bugz I get reboot 512k required....Also I have a problem... my 3.5 disk drive is not recognized... So I can't move it to a 3.5 and reboot... I only can use my Ram or Harddrive for stuff. AFL JoyceM Bugs, install the 3.5" driver in the Driver area in the Finder = GS/OS AFC Eddie I'd suggest disabling all your DA's and Init's to start. Bugs Bugz no... my Drive port is shot.... I can't even boot 3.5 it's gone...Yeah ;) I can live off my Hard drive for now though ;) AFC Eddie Do you have any other problems with 8-bit programs? Bugs Bugz Please continue... sorry... No probs with other 8-bit just diversi... AFL JoyceM Bugs, leave us E-mail and maybe we can help you that way. Bugs Bugz Thanks, sorry to take up time Jim ;) AFL JoyceM Sorry Jim... AFC DYAJim Ok.. DYA was founded back in January 1990 when myself and Matt Keller met online and both wanted to produce quality GS software (and hopefully become a little known in the GS world as well) DYA was founded in January 1990 when myself and Matt Keller met online...Both of us wanted to be part of the action - we wanted to make some slick software for this great computer that we all love and use.. Soon, it became obvious that I was best at programming and Matt at art.. :) Anyhow, so we both started our learning... releasing stuff along the way..First came several demos, while we were getting familiar with the hardware...Soon came Twilight 1.0, in late summer/early fall of last year, our first shareware endeavour...Twilight 1.0 did quite well for shareware, and made DYA further known, which helps tremendously as well.. Around this time we were also lucky enough to first get our Direct Connect area on America Online, which we are still very grateful for :-) AFC Eddie And so are we! AFL JoyceM :) AFC DYAJim Most recently, we added Derek Young to the DYA team, to help so that we can create bigger and better projects.... and it's going great. Soundwise, as I hinted at earlier, we currently have the DYA SoundSmith ASIF Instrument Disk Volume 1, which is free to distribute as a disk...The sampling took several months as we discovered the correct procedures to use to get in tune... Anyhow.. let's get to the present! Right now we're on the verge of releasing a 3200 color dazzling show which is the first project Derek has really helped on, and it shows.. Things are getting bigger and better :-) This, of course, will be freeware... A second volume of the instrument disk is also presently being considered even though the response to the first was, at best, average; we like the instruments :) AFL JoyceM As we do :) Dr Teeth Me too. AFC DYAJim Currently we're headed in a couple directions...Compilations of pictures and sounds (i.e. the slideshow to come, and the instrument disk) will remain freeware to distribute as disks to as many people as possible..However, as we get to be more knowledgeable about the GS, and as the quality of our work increases, most likely you will see some either commercial, or self-marketed programs in the future. (whichever works out) AFC DYAJim One of which will be Twilight II, which I've been working very hard on and putting a large amount of time and money into.. Chances are it won't be shareware (but don't worry -- I can see it now the question :) -- there will be an upgrade for registered users :-) because of it's high quality and the large amount of time going into it.. Soundwise, yes, as I've hinted at in a few spots, we're working on a CDA similar to background sound, but addressing all its faults :-) We're headed in a more commercial direction, but (hey Tim!) freeware demos and compilations of data (pictures, sounds) will continue to be produced most likely :) As a matter of fact, I just filed for developer status at Apple, for DYA :) AFC Eddie ALright, Jim! AFL JoyceM Great, Jim :) Dr Teeth How about them, Apple... AFL JoyceM I think you going commercial is a good idea too. GNO Tim he he he AFC DYAJim We're starting to need it, in more ways than one.. AFL JoyceM Of course, everyone wants programs free, but someone has to buy the bread! AFC DYAJim For instance, I need to have some decent reciprocal for all the effort Twilight II entails.. T2 is absorbing a huge amount of time and resources. And if it doesn't do well, I'll have to get a real job which will limit future programming time..yeah, exactly, Joyce! AFC Eddie Jim, could you see DYA getting into bringing some new MIDI applications to the GS? Such as a sound librarian/editor? ELECTMUSIC Ditto Eddie! How about support for the Tool 35? AFC Eddie There are a lot of good ones for the Mac which shouldn't take much work to make GS versions of. AFC DYAJim We're currently investigating noisetracker in depth also. You mean like SysEx things and such, Eddie? Tool 35.. as in SysEx? :) ELECTMUSIC I would like to see some support for Apple's Midi Tool 35 AFC Eddie Like sound librarians MIDI musicians could use, an upscaled SYsex. ELECTMUSIC or a sequencer supporting Tool 35. I just can't believe Apple develops a great music tool, and no one considers using it or developing for it! AFC DYAJim Yes, I have longed for a good 35 sysEx program also.. I'll keep in mind your suggestions when we reevaluate our project directions AFL JoyceM BTW, I understand the lawsuit between Apple & the Beatles has been resolved. AFC Eddie Really Joyce? AFL JoyceM So I was told today, Eddie. Panda4 I have a question! AFL JoyceM Yes, Panda? Panda4 Is there a way to extract a MOD file from an LZH archive? AFC DYAJim only if you've got a pc transporter, Andy.. Dr Teeth GOOD QUESTION AFC Eddie We need an upgrade to Shrinkit GS that will do that! GNO Tim yes...I have lharc at school and I unpack them there before downloading Panda4 I do! But I usually can do it with Agate. AFC DYAJim So, thank you all for the suggestions... AFC DYAJim I'll bring them up with Derek and Matt... ELECTMUSIC Thanks for being there to support the GS, Jim AFL JoyceM Jim, thanks and welcome to AMS :) AFC DYAJim And I would like to thank all of you, as well, for listening to me, inviting me here, and for all the positive feedback, encouragement, and suggestions... :) Dr Teeth BTW, jim. On your next music disk, I have a NEED for some high quality symphonic instruments... DanW190 Anyone know any more late breaking info on SS v1.0? AFC DYAJim What in particular, alan? I'll be sure to sample it (if I've got the sounds :) Dr Teeth Well, some decent violins, cello (esp. cello), basic string instruments, synth strings just don't cut it DanW190 Dr Teeth - are you planning to put these in an SS song? AFC DYAJim Violins.. Ack.. Completely lacking on the D-70 and all my sound cards! :( DanW190 Long sustained strings, unless you can find a good loop inst, are usually VERY space consuming int the doc RAM....usually :) Dr Teeth Possibly, I would have already if I had them. AFC DYAJim String instruments I can go for though.. AFC DYAJim We'll try to have some looped strings in disk 2 (whenever that comes out :) Dr Teeth Yes, but with NoiseTracker, to heck with the DOC Ram DanW190 "Loopy strings disk 1" :) AFC DYAJim The GS needs some high power sampling software..Like the kind samplers have to produce good loops AFC Eddie Yes, Jim! Dr Teeth So True. DanW190 The GS needs that DSP for some awesome sampling..Incidentally, what's the highest achievable sampling rate on a GS sampler? GNO Tim With the DSP, you can do actually do real sound synthesis, you won't even need to sample. AFC DYAJim I mean, I've read it and I'm sure many of you have.. like in all the keyboard magazines, when they publish tutorials on sampling and looping, they refer to all these features and effects the samplers have to make it so much easier than it is on the GS.. DanW190 You can do everything with the DSP.. :) Pete was saying something like 1,000 channel music would be fairly easy, 2000 would take a lot of work.. :) AFL JoyceM Jim, thank you again for coming by and giving us the information about DYA and their upcoming programs, especially music. Remember, we all are here to help you. AFC DYAJim And thanks for the invitation!! :-) Publicity is good! We're happy to be here on AO... DanW190 Anyone know how to access the DOC ram in Noisetracker when you've also got instruments loaded into RAM (is it possible?)? AFC DYAJim I think I know, Dan... AFL JoyceM thanks DanW190 How about a MOD section in the AMS libraries? :) AFC DYAJim Aren't you out of libraries, Joyce? :-) (like in the "Software Libraries option, there's no more room for additional library names!) AFL JoyceM Yes, Jim...but not sure why we need a MOD area at this time. AFC DYAJim Ok.. what can't you do? load more instruments into the DOC RAM when you've got all the MOD instruments loaded in normal RAM? DanW190 No, how do I access between the two RAM sections? (DOC/RAM) I.e. how do I access inst one in DOC ram w/ RAM insts loaded? AFC DYAJim That's what I was saying (I think :) DanW190 :) AFC DYAJim I have an idea... DanW190 It's about time we started putting up some 7 track MOD/3 track DOC songs :) AFC DYAJim Yeah! AFC DYAJim Ok.. my theory: Tracks A, B, C, D, E, F, G (when present) will play ONLY normal RAM sounds. Numeric tracks only play DOC RAM sounds.. DanW190 If you think about it, the 3 or 4 tracks and about 60k of DOC is ideal for percussion AFC DYAJim So this way the instrument numbers aren't confused DanW190 Hmm.. I thought I tried that, but I can't remember..Although that is a very logical suggestion.. AFC DYAJim Unfortunately, I don't think that you can load ASIF's directly.. can you? DanW190 You mean $D8 insts? DanW190 $D8/0002 or was it $D8/0000 ? :) AFC DYAJim d8/2 = ASIF d8/0 = AIFF DanW190 Well, I know you can load and play Soundsmith songs..Certain ones, that is.. :) AFC DYAJim AIFF is not very popular right now on the GS and ASIF is very popular with Soundsmith and all DanW190 Some songs load with a non-existent tempo... AFC DYAJim but NoiseTracker will only load AIFF instruments individually (except when you're importing soundsmith songs) which is a pain! AFL JoyceM --------log off-------------