=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- APPLE II MUSIC & SOUND FORUM CONFERENCE LOG July 17, 1991 10 PM ET Topic: AudioZap Forum Leader: Joyce Madden (AFL JoyceM), Forum Assistant: Gene Koh (AFA Gene) Forum Consultants: Greg Dib (ELECTMUSIC), Ed Rosenblatt (AFC Eddie), Lindsay Hough (LindsayGS) Copyright (c) 1991 America Online All Rights Reserved =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- AFL JoyceM Ian, do you want to talk about your new AudioZap program...and the Amiga MOD extractor? AFun Ian Joyce, I'll talk about anything GS-Sound related! :) AFL JoyceM Great...tell us what is new with AudioZap 1.0 AFun Ian Well, AZ 1.0 has one major bug. DONT USE APPEND IF YOU VALUE YOUR LIFE! I dont know why it does it, it used to work, but that's life. :) The AZ 1.0 SoundSmith Editor is well on the way, tho! IT ROCKS! :) AFA Gene AZ SS editor? AFun Ian It'll be a separate module, Gene. Did ya see the last File menu item in 1.0s? AFL JoyceM Ian...editor for SS...sounds great....tell us more, please :) AFun Ian 1.0 will be a spreadsheet type thing, at first, but I hope to have real notation in a future version. It'll have integrated KeyZap so ya can pound on your (GS) keyboard while songs play. Fun! Also maybe MIDI input. Ice T OG Does it use SynthLab files? AFA Gene MIDI input would be awesome. AFL JoyceM Ian, I request that MIDI input.... :) AFA Gene A Midi File Format ==> SoundSmith comvertor would be ever nicer. :) AFun Ian Well, it'll be sorta fun to do, since I don't have MIDI, but I'll see what I can do. :) NiteCrwlr How's the SS editor? Please, not a Spreadsheet... AFun Ian Hmm, here we go again. Any questions left over from last time? NiteCrwlr Whats so special about YOUR editor? AFA Gene Well Ian, a number of programmers have thought of doing such a convertor, but they all backed off because they weren't familiar enough with the SS format. AFun Ian The editor IS a spreadsheet at this point, but the view is 6 tracks wide and it'll have many more edit features, like Raise/Lower octave. NiteCrwlr cool! AFun Ian As always, I'm taking suggestions. AFL JoyceM Ian, will this make it easier to input into SS? AFun Ian Also, maybe new effects (beat Huibert at his own game!) :) (Can you say pitchbend in a SS song?) :) Joyce, I hope so. I KNOW MIDI will, but that may not be for a while. AFA Gene Ian, if you can do THAT in SS, then I'm sure you can write the convertor! :-) Ice T OG I have question about uploading song files. AFA Gene The problem is that although MIDI File format is well documented, the SS format is not. But you seem to have cracked it. NiteCrwlr PItchbend would be soooo cool. AFun Ian SS format is SO documented well. Checkout Apple's File Type Note! NiteCrwlr Keep cracking until it's broken! AFun Ian I have player code from DYA's Jim Maricondo, and I modified it to do SoundSmith 0.95 features and stuff. :) AFun Ian DYA is Digital Youth Alliance. They're really cool dudes! :) (all teens, too!) :) :) :) NiteCrwlr What do they make? I've heard of 'em... AFun Ian DYA Instrument Disk #1- GET IT NOW ITS AWESOME! :) also Twilight and some demos. :) Ice T OG Whaz Up with Twilight 2.0 Screen Saver? Centaur C Does anyone want my port of the MAC "Monty Python" sounds (AZ was used :) NiteCrwlr Sure, Centaur! AFun Ian If ya wanna know about Twilight 2.0, DL a conference in APR. :) Centaur C also what is MAX file size for accepted uploaded sound file (GSHK'ed) AFA Gene There is no max, Harold, but keep in mind that virtually nobody bothers d/lling files that take more than about 10 mins to d/l at 2400 baud (digitized sound, that is). AFun Ian Well, its not out yet and Jonah stoped working on it so the legal part is up in the air. Centaur C Current Twilight is bad news :( :( it writes to SHR memory even in text mode :( AFun Ian Gene, I D/Led the FTA XMAS DEMO and DYA Inst. Disk, both over 70 mins at 2400. So SOME people do it. :)Centaur, tell DYA Jim1 about it. Centaur C Gene....Well, I did upload a 600K+ compressed Monty Python collection, and...got e-mail back stating that it was too large to be placed in the library :( AFA Gene Ian, i meant digitized sounds. It's quite a grey area. Harold, that note was probably from me. If something can be separated into small files, we usually prefer it that way (DYA did this with their Inst disk). AFun Ian Oh, Gene, yes. I see. Centaur C Well....there are 35 sounds, and I don't want to try uploading them seperatly. I guess I could break into 3 GSHK'ed files (about 200K each) would that be OK? AFA Gene Then upload only the 2 or 3 BEST ones. Or, you can always upload the whole thing, but nobody would d/l it. There is really no forum policy except that the files get killed if nobody d/lls them within "a reasonable amt of time" Centaur C (for us MP fans, they are ALL great! I ported them from the MAC HyperCard ... AFA Gene (5 days is what is has been written) Centaur C stacks in the MAC forums) AFun Ian Yes, that's easy with powerful software like AudioZap. (:smirk:) Centaur C and Audio Zap was INDISPENSIBLE in cleaning them up!!! (free plug for Ian :) :) AFun Ian Thanks, Harold! :) :) :) :) :) :) AFun Ian BTW: Everyone PLEASE send the shareware fee or SoundSmith Editor may not show up! Hate to blackmail ya, but... :( Centaur C Ian...(quite seriously) I would like to see 7 channel support in AZ...will talk to you voice about this. AFA Gene 7 channel? AFun Ian Harold, don't mean you. You're okay. :) Yes, the IIgs supports 7 channel sound output! Chew on that, Mac!:) Just need an enhanced stereo card to do it! :) Centaur C Well, with the right added hdwr, the GS can EASILY handle 7 channel stereo.....so why not support it? AFA Gene You mean multiple outputs? AFL JoyceM So, who makes an enhanced stereo card? AFun Ian But, what would you call 7 channel? Not stereo, would it? AFA Gene septophonic? AFL JoyceM :) AFun Ian No one makes such a card, though it'd be quite easy to do. Gene, LOL! :) Centaur C Yup, the multiplexed outputs on the Molex (I know of 1 card that handles this already....it's in my hand right now :) :) AFA Gene So this is just the same as when a rackmount unit has 8 different outputs, right? AFun Ian Really, can I have one? I'll support it in SS Editor! Imagine songs like that! Centaur C Ian...We'll talk about it :) :) Gene.....sorta, but only 7 outputs AFA Gene Why 7 tho? an odd number. AFun Ian Acutally, Ensoniq will do 16, but Apple didn't keep one of the outputs. :) Okay, I'll say it. Who needs 16 channel sound? Not I! :) Centaur C Well the 8'th one is used internally in the GS, and CA1 output is NOT brought out (another Apple design mess up): ): ): AFun Ian Yes. CA1 is the bank switch for DOCRAM, right Harold? (for non-techies that means Apple could've given us 128k of DOC RAM!) Centaur C CA1 is the signal that *I* was using for my 128K DOCRAM kit, but stopped when I found out that it wouldn't work on ROM-03 machines....Apple does NOT use it at all. AFA Gene What kind of RAM is the doc ram? just curious. SRAM? Centaur C DRAM 4464 (64Kx4) AFun Ian Gene, its just standard DRAM. AFL JoyceM Too bad, Harold...I remember when you were working on it...I have a ROM 1 :) AFun Ian So do I! :) AFA Gene So then it shouldn't have been too hard, or expensive for them to go to 128K, huh? Centaur C I **MAY** and I STRESS MAY make up a few more boards for folks who really want them, BUT....there is NO software around that supports it (unless Ian wants to trick up something :):):) AFun Ian Yes, Ensoniq has a circuit to go to 512K on the Mirage! That's awesome. :) AFun Ian Harold, if you make em I'll support em! :) Centaur C Ian...the software should be SIMPLE (just ΚΚΚΚΚΚΚΚΚΚΚΚΚΚΚΚΚ tweaking 1 bit, and reseting an address pointer) :) :) :) AFL JoyceM Interesting....just think of 128k for synthLAB :) AFun Ian However, CA1 won't work for loading data from the GS side. :) Unless you trick up something I'm missing. Centaur C This would ONLY be usefull for CREATING samples......and editing them seeing as MOST folks would NOT have this amount of DOCRAM available. And it will NOT work on ROM-03 mahcines :(:( AFun Ian Joyce, Mark Cecys'd have to redo Tool035 to support it. AFL JoyceM Hm....maybe we could convince him, if Harold's board becomes a big seller :) NealS6 Why not ROM-03 Harold? Centaur C (Apple went and soldered in the Ensoniq's chip :( ΚΚΚΚΚΚΚΚΚΚΚΚΚΚΚΚΚΚΚ:( :( AFA Gary J They have a way of doing that sort of thing. Centaur C My board requires a socketed Ensoniq AFA Gene Talking about seven-channel sound with 128K of DOC ram, Gary. Centaur C (but it works GREAT on my blue SKA series fully socketted GS prototype :) :) AFL JoyceM For the GS :) AFun Ian Harold, you have a PROTOTYPE IIgs? Wow! :) AFA Gene How'd you get one of those?? Centaur C I have 2 SKA boards :) :) AFA Gary J I figured so (I've heard rumors about Harold's board/card whatever). AFun Ian What's SKA mean, tho? Centaur C I know someone who knows someone who "snuck them out the back door" at Apple... AFun Ian :) I see. Centaur C They are in hand "carved" //e cases, with galvanized steel bottoms..... AFun Ian BTW, do they have ROM -1 (hehe)? Centaur C Ralph Russo was SHOCKED when I talked to him about them :) :) :) AFun Ian Hey, shocking Apple is good for 'em! :) (they're shocked that we consider the IIgs a real computer anyway!) :( Centaur C These are Pre WOZ machines AFA Gene Yeah, what does SKA mean? Centaur C Any PC board from Apple that has a part number starting with "SKA" means that it is an IN HOUSE prototype. NealS6 The fabled IIx !!!! AFA Gary J What does Apple think about your 128k DOC RAM device? AFA Gene Wow, cool! :) Centaur C Neal...Yupper!!! NealS6 Cool AFun Ian Cool! :) AFA Gene We could have had this chat last week ;) Centaur C Gary....Apple doesn't think....thats an oxymoronic question :/ AFA Gary J True :) AFL JoyceM Kool! AFun Ian Very true! :) AFA Gary J Well, have they said anything? :) Centaur C I haven't talked to them about it.....I want to study the ROM-03 some more...and see if there MAY be a way for me to make a single DOC ram expansion card for ROM-01 and 03 machines. AFL JoyceM Apple talks with forked tongue! AFun Ian Joyce, you are VERY right! :) BTW: heard about the GS/Sony game machine? AFL JoyceM No, Ian? Centaur C Joyce....Did you ever see the Apple 1981 X-Mas card they sent to developers? AFA Gary J 1981? AFL JoyceM I don't believe so, Harold. AFun Ian Well, this is from an semi-official source, but Apple's licensed the IIgs to Sony for use as a home game system with a 12 or 16 Mhz processor. AFun Ian Under $300, supposedly. DangardAce Interesting that WDC can't even crank out 9 MHz chips in big quantities. Reliably. AFA Gene There was a folder about that in AGM. I don't think it's happenning. Centaur C the "evangelical x-tians" got REAL heated up about it!!!) DangardAce AGM? Whuzzat? AFun Ian Really, howcome ZIP's running at 10Mhz? AFA Gene Wow, pete, you popped in at just the right time! :) DangardAce They buy up all the 12 MHz chips they can at a time then they ship (more like drip drip) them out to people after they test it themselves and goose the chip with more voltage to achieve higher speeds. AFun Ian OIC, Dangard. Centaur C Well, the best speed WDC can produce 65816's in (in quantity) is 8Mhz...ZIP is "pushing" the chip to 10 by increasing the voltage above 5 volts AFL JoyceM WDC? (I know I missed something here) AFun Ian Harold, isn't that hard on the 65816? AFun Ian Joyce, WDC makes the 65816 processor. They invented it! DangardAce However, if Sony's taking the masks and making their OWN 65816's.. with their own improvements with the permission of Bill Mensch.. Centaur C WDC = Western Design Center.....makers of the 65816 AFA Gary J Right in my backyard (WDC) AFL JoyceM Thanks.... :) AFA Gary J (well, across town a bit, actually :) DangardAce didja try the cycle test, Gary :) Centaur C Ian....Not really, and it IS a standard practice in engineering :) AFA Gene Did nintendo get their 65816s from WDC? AFun Ian Harold, okay. (not started engineering school yet...) :) AFA Gary J Not yet, Ace. I've only been home from work for about 45 minutes. (Last night had to rush off too quickly!!! Too busy lately :( DangardAce No, Gene, they made their own.. the 65816 in the SFX has Nintendo's insignia DangardAce on it but it also says (c) 1986 WDC Centaur C Famicon/SNES is using WDC 65816's AFun Ian How fast does the SFX/SNES run? DangardAce 3.84 MHz. Centaur C (same masks, differing facility for manufacture) AFA Gary J 3.84?? Strange AFA Gene How much longer until release of snes? a month or so? DangardAce However, the machine has extremely fast VRAMs and custom CPUs. Centaur C 3.84 is NOT an odball speed! DangardAce So the games go almost at the true speed of the CPU, plus the CPU does almost NONE of the graphics. Centaur C and I meant 3.548545Mhz.....which is the NTSC standard colourburst signal DangardAce Shipping end of August. DangardAce BTW, to keep in line with tonight's meeting, it has a sound/music chip that blows away the Genesis's and TG-16s. Anyone hear anything from KansasFest? Centaur C I WILL develop a way of hooking SNES to the GS!!!!!! DangardAce Fine. :) AFL JoyceM Anxiously awaiting SOME info, Dangar AFA Gary J Me too. AFL JoyceM It doesn't start until Tomorrow tho, right? DangardAce Like if anyone's using Synthlab in a commercial non-game music related product AFA Gene Pete, nobody's usin synthlab for games. But I'm using SS for Timelord!!! ;) (sneak previews at Kfest) DangardAce Bard's Tale GS/OS. AFL JoyceM Nope, Ace...good? AFA Gene (actually the beer company commercial) AFL JoyceM Thanks...it was a good chat.