=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- APPLE II MUSIC & SOUND FORUM CONFERENCE LOG April 3, 1991 10 PM ET Topic: MIDI - discussions on: MIDI, SynthLAB, Soundsmith Forum Leader: Joyce Madden (AFL JoyceM), Forum Assistant: Gene Koh (AFA Gene) Forum Consultants: Greg Dib (ELECTMUSIC), Ed Rosenblatt (AFC Eddie), Lindsay Hough (LindsayGS) Copyright (c) 1991 America Online All Rights Reserved =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- AFL JoyceM Okay...let me get started. As I said, our discussion tonight will be on MIDI. MIDI stands for: Musical Instrument Digital Interface, and therefore, MIDI is hardware....When a MIDI interface is connected to a computer and an electronic music device, we have a music-making process!....There are two basic MIDI interfaces: Apple's and Passport Designs. I recommend Apple's only because of compatibility. The price for the Apple MIDI interface is from $75 to $99 from your local Apple dealer..Some of the electronic music devices or components that support a MIDI interface are: synthesizer keyboards, guitars, wind instruments and I have even see a violin adapted for MIDI use. Of course, a drum machine can also be a MIDI unit. For the Apple IIGS, we have the following programs (software) that support the use of MIDI, both In and Out: synthLAB from APDA (Apple), MusicStudio from Activision (and now discontinued), MasterTracks Pro and Jr., and... DiversiTune. There are others, but these are the most common and popular programs..... What does MIDI do?...With a MIDI interface connected to both your computer and a music/electronic device, you can input your music/song from the music device and send, receive or save it to your music program. In otherwords, you have a Roland D-20 keyboard and are using the program MasterTracks Pro. You play your song on the keyboard at the same time you have MasterTracks Pro on-line and with 'record' command from MasterTracks, you can 'save' your musical creation to disk or RAM... Then, you have the capability of editing what you have saved. Of course, you can play back what you have recorded....Some recommendations, other than the above mentioned hardware, would be a stereo card and external speakers. The only stereo cards available today are from Applied Engineering: Audio Animator and Sonic Blaster. Both of these also come with software for use with digitizing sounds. Sources for external speakers are from your local electronic/music store. Radio Shack being one..... Some reading material regarding the use of MIDI are:... Music Through MIDI by Michael Boom, a Microsoft Press publication;....Power Sequencing with MasterTracks Pro/Pro4 by Craig Anderton, an Amsco Publication;....and MIDI for Musicians also by Craig Anderton and also an Amsco Publication. There are, of course, other books, but these are the ones I have in my library and not necessarily the best, but..... Okay...that's all I have to say as an intro re MIDI. Before we get started with a discussion on MIDI, I think Nuzz, Mike Nuzzi has an announcment to make regarding an upcoming program from Triad. Mike: :) Nuzz well I think most of the folks here know already. But we do have that sound converter almost ready (xcmd/stack) AFC Eddie Great! Nuzz Neat feature will let you play with rSound header AFL JoyceM Mike, exactly what will this sound converter do for us? Nuzz Convert HS and future sound files to HC, rename rSounds, correct playba rates, etc and digitize into HC AFA Parik pretty cool mike! people have been asking about a HyperCard sound importer long time. AFL JoyceM Thanks, Mike...when will this be available for purchase, etc? AFC Eddie Nuzz, that sounds phenomenal! Nuzz Not for awhile. It still needs a digitizing NDA, and some other goodies AFL JoyceM Oh, I like the 'other goodies' option too :) AFL Marty Who is doing the stack "shell", Mike? Nuzz Steve Bernacki is doing the stack shell, and he is a very good HC front end guy and an excellent script writer too :) AFL Marty Steve will be my new AFC starting on 4/19. Sorry... I just had to brag a little on him! Nuzz Thats great... He deserves it AFL JoyceM Sounds great.......and congrats Marty on your new AFC :) AFL JoyceM Parik, any word on a new version of SoundSmith from the people in Mexico? AFC Eddie Can't wait for it, Nuzz, really! AFA Parik sorry, no word. Its from Spain, btw. :-) AFL JoyceM Oh, I knew it was somewhere...sorry about that. AFL JoyceM Okay, as I stated our discussion tonight is on MIDI...any questions from anyone? Help needed, etc? Nuzz I've been meaning to add word capability to MidiSynth.. AFL JoyceM I was hoping they would get the MIDI implemented. AFL JoyceM Mike, now that would be most useful. AFC Eddie With MIDI, Soundsmith would be magnificent. Nuzz Any reason given Parik? AFL JoyceM Oops...Parik has gone the way of the Cryptic message! AFL JoyceM Gene, what is new with SoftDisk-GS as far as MIDI is concerned, anything? AFC Eddie I'm about to upload a real nice HC stack with SynthLAB songs made using Cliptunes. AFA Gene Well, the new MIDI Synth-based Jukebox "II" is gonna be released very soon. (meaning third quarter) AFC Eddie Great, Gene! Nuzz neato AFL JoyceM Great, Gene....and I was thinking of not renewing - but will now. AFL Marty Are these tunes you've created/converted Eddie? AFA Gene Funny thing is that since MIDISynth is so easy to implement, the majority of development problems are coming from the other formats which the Jukebox will support! Nuzz and Big Red Computer Club is starting a HS JukeBox disk with SL Music AFL JoyceM Eddie, could you give us some explanation on how you are doing this with Cliptunes? AFC Eddie Some of them, yes, and some others from our library. AFA Gene AFC Eddie Actually, I did not create this stack, but was in on it from the beginning. AFC Eddie Don Hill, a big HC and Cliptunes fan (aren't we all?), created it. AFL JoyceM But for now, we don't have a shareware Jukebox program for synthLAB, right? AFL JoyceM Mike, where are they (BRCC) getting their synthLAB songs? From here? AFC Eddie Good question, Joyce! AFA Gene Unless you consider Background Sound, Joyce. AFL Marty They get a good portion of their stuff from here. Nuzz I don't know Joyce, but you can ask Joe Kohn (Joko) on-line and ask Nuzz It is a PD disk that uses the Synth Xcmd. They "sell" it for $3.50 AFL Marty You remember Scott & Marty's Excellent Stacks (for HyperStudio)? AFL JoyceM Yes, Marty. AFL Marty They "sell" those stacks too. AFC Eddie Hope they give credit where it's due. AFL JoyceM Thanks, Mike...I belong to BRCC, and hopefully we will be getting their December newsletter! Nuzz Joe left a note in our DC area with the disk. Marty, did they get your permission? AFL JoyceM Marty, did you get the credit for them? AFL Marty They didn't ask. AFC Eddie That's pretty lousy. AFL Marty I have mixed feelings about it. AFL JoyceM Hmmm, the songs that Eddie uploads here for synthLAB have America Online on them...I wonder if they will take that off. AFC Eddie I don't mind them using those things, but the credits should stay on. AFL JoyceM Marty, I would have mixed feelings too. Nuzz Where are the credits Eddie SethD2 What program do you recomend for midi input? R J Brooks I have an Apple IIGS and a Ensoniq VFX SD synthesizer AFL Marty I mean, I'm glad they like my work... AFC Eddie Credits should go in the spaces for instrument names. AFL Marty but they're selling the stuff for $3.50 and I don't get any of it. R J Brooks can you tell me what I can do with MIDI AFC Eddie Nice, Synth, RJ! AFL JoyceM Seth, I would recommend MasterTracks Pro from Passport Designs. SethD2 Does it have good editing? AFC Eddie With Midi,you can create your own musical sequences and play them back Nuzz Marty, welcome to the wonderful world of PD software AFA Gene It has professional editing tools, Seth. AFC Eddie either through your MIDI device or thru your computer, depending on the software you use. AFL Marty I'm sure what they're doing is legal, if not ethical. AFL JoyceM SethD2 I'm starting to do input with a guitar. Is it any different? R J Brooks I have Music Studio are there any other professional programs available AFC Eddie Seth, is your guitar midi-ized? AFL Marty I belong to BRCC too Joyce. That's how I found out about the stacks. SethD2 Yes. AFC Eddie Seth, you should then have the ability to set each string to a separate AFC Eddie MIDI channel, right? AFA Gene What guitar MIDI system do you use, Seth? SethD2 It's a Yamaha R J Brooks I also have a Roland GP-8 Guitar Effects Processor, what can MIDI do with this SethD2 I don't remember the model #, it's at school for a while. AFC Eddie How long have you had it, Seth? SethD2 for 1 1/2 years. It was expensive when I got it though. AFL JoyceM RJ, as I suggested to Seth, MasterTracks Pro is program of choice. R J Brooks Thanks Joyce. SethD2 How much is Master Tracks? AFA Gene RJ, the GP-8 does not have any MIDI in/outs, i don't think (correct me if I'm wrong). Because of this, you cannot utilize the benefits of MIDI control with this (foot pedal controls, etc.) AFC Eddie With it, Seth, you can record multi-track sequences with your guitar, and play them back through the MIDI module you have. AFL JoyceM Since MusicStudio is no longer being supported or available, then MasterTracks is the only real MIDI input program. SethD2 Can I run it through a timbre generator? AFC Eddie Joyce, there's Diversitune and Musicwriter too! R J Brooks The Roland GP-8 does have the MIDI in,out, and thru AFC Eddie Yes, Seth. SethD2 Is the GP-8 like the Yamaha GEP-50, or the SPX-900? AFA Gene Oh! Then I stand corrected! You can use MIDI for foot controllers, as well as (for more esoteric situations) if you wanted an external sequencer to control R J Brooks Yes AFA Gene when your effects would be activated during the playback of a sequence (if you were to play along with another MIDI instrument). Did that make sense? R J Brooks yes AFA Gene good :) R J Brooks thanks Gene AFA Gene No problem, did I answer what you wanted to know? R J Brooks yes SethD2 What keyboard would you suggest getting(low cost)? AFL JoyceM It would be a real joy if someone would upload some MIDI guitar songs - hint, hint! AFA Gene four "yes"es in a row for RJ! ;) AFC Eddie Seth, Joyce just bought a multi-timbral Roland D-5, I think she likes it. AFA Gene Depends what ya want to do with it, Seth. SethD2 I have a D-110 AFL JoyceM I do like it - when I have the time to play with it :( SethD2 Timbre generater, that is. AFA Gene Then seth, you have what joyce has.... timbre generator? oh, I see what you're saying now... (btw, not exactly what she has in a rack-mount, but very close) AFC Eddie That's a nice one, Seth. SethD2 I'm just looking for a tone generator. I got it used, at a nice price. AFC Eddie Yes, but if you want keyboard input, all you really need now is a keyboard controller. SethD2 A what? AFC Eddie That won't generate its own sounds, but will let you drive the sounds in the D-110. SethD2 that's it! Who makes one? AFC Eddie There are many available! Roland has 'em. AFC Eddie You may consider trading your D-110 for a D-5, which is the same as that combination. SethD2 full sized, with sustain? About how much? AFC Eddie Full-sized will cost you, not sure how much. Sustain is available with an extra pedal. How important is full-size? SethD2 I will be use the D-110 for the guitar now. SethD2 well, I currently have a small one, and it's a pain going to the extreme octs. AFC Eddie If you want to use the D-110 for the guitar as well, then the trade I mentioned is not a good idea. With the keyboard controller, you can use it or the guitar with the D-110. There are some nice Full-sized ones, but cost much more than 61-key jobs. SethD2 Well, I also have spent hours making new patches. I don't want to throw that away. Well, 61 key is an improvement over what I have now. AFC Eddie You could use those patches with the D-5. AFA Gene Well do you mean standard 61/76 key keyboard style controller or an 88-key piano-style controller? AFC Eddie Joyce, does your D-5 have an input for external card? SethD2 Should I upload any of my decent patches? SethD2 61/76 AFL JoyceM Yes, Eddie. AFC Eddie Sure, Seth, but what format would that be in? The patches, that is? SethD2 Well, a text file. AFC Eddie Great, but there is another way, Seth. SethD2 The person could print it out, and then program it into the timbre generator. SethD2 How? AFC Eddie Have you heard of SySEX GS? SethD2 no. AFC Eddie It's a program that would let you save your sound banks as a prodos file. SethD2 and then program it through MIDI? AFC Eddie You could not use it for programming, but you can save and load banks of patches. And upload and download them. SethD2 that's neet. Is it P Domain? AFC Eddie No, but very inexpensive. $35, I think. AFA Gene I believe a demo is online if you wanna check it out. Applications lib. AFC Eddie Send E-mail to LindsayGS, our AFC, and ingenious author of the program. KingLerch who are the AFAs the AFLs and The AFCs? AFA Gene AFL = Forum Leader AFA = Forum Assistant AFC = Forum Consultant KingLerch So you answer our questions? AFC Eddie Well, we try. AFL JoyceM If you have any questions regarding music and sound for the Apple II, we are here to help and answer. AFA Gene yep, that's what we're here for. KingLerch Not really answers but discussion AFC Eddie That too, KingLerch. AFA Gene whatever, 'tis the place :) KingLerch Hmmm... KingLerch I write a lot of Music stuff for the GS but there doesn't seem to be a lot of people interrestied in writing. AFA Gene You mean writing original music, or just in realizing music on the GS? AFL JoyceM We are very interested in writing and having whatever you have. AFC Eddie Sure there are! Like me, fr'instance! KingLerch Most of my stuff is online, all for SoundSmith AFC Eddie I'd like to hear your music. AFA Gene Yes, i remember validating your uploads, King. To be frank, the most-downloaded files are simply the ones with the "hottest" topics. Such as "axel F," "bart simpson," "burp," etc. :) KingLerch Like Take It, In The Flesh, Genesis1&2, and some rush stuff AFA Gene KingLerch yeah, but most uploaded now are SynthLab stuff. AFL JoyceM Too bad, because I remember some of King's songs for SS - good too. AFC Eddie But there are people out there interested in originals, too. KingLerch There USED to be 10 new ones per week for SSmith. That's a year ago AFL JoyceM King, do you have a MIDI keyboard? If so, you could use synthLAB too. AFA Gene Now there are 10 new ones per week for SYnthlAB! :) KingLerch I like the better sounds with SSMith AFC Eddie Then keep doing SS Tunes, King! Why not? AFA Gene Personally, I prefer some of the SSMith instruments also, but remember that that has to do with the samples that they took, not with SS itself; i.e. any music program can be made to use those really good samples. AFL JoyceM I understand that there probably won't be an upgrade to the present version of SoundSmith. KingLerch Exactly, I just finished a Demo with Tim Meekins AFC Eddie Including SynthLAB, now. KingLerch Why don't you think 1.0 will come out? AFL JoyceM Because the writer is not longer interested? We were just told this earlier in the chat. KingLerch That's a shame. AFL JoyceM It is, I was looking forward to the MIDI input option. AFA Gene Well, that was just Parik's opinion, totally unsubstantiated. However, I do see his point; actually it's very much a common-sense thing. I mean, look at it from the author's point of view... he already has done two commercial titles and made fair $$$ from those (Britannica Software), yet the most complex project he's done (SS) is getting only the peanuts that shareware authors usually get. KingLerch There's soo much that can be done with it KingLerch I wonder if it got the Shareware support AFA Gene The MIDI interface step is a huge programming effort, and I'm not even sure if the man has a MIDI interface yet. :) KingLerch I don't like the way he orientated it. The fees I mean. AFA Gene He designed it the way that all the European music development systems were being designed at that time (late 1989). Actually, it's harder than that, King. KingLerch Place a $20 bill and send it to France? KingLerch I sent mine in a while back but I could see how people would be reluctant to do so AFC Eddie------------------LogOff------------------------