|||||| |||||| || || |||||| |||||| || || ||| || || || || ||| |||| |||||| || |||| Your || || || || ||| || || |||||| |||||| || || |||||| |||||| GEnieLamp Computing || |||||| || || |||||| RoundTable || || || ||| ||| || || || |||||| |||||||| |||||| RESOURCE! || || || || || || || ||||| || || || || || ~ WELCOME TO GENIELAMP A2Pro! ~ """"""""""""""""""""""""""" ~ Byteworks To Present 3D Logo Seminars In October ~ ~ MAB Desktop Construction Set Released ~ MPW Scripts Now In Library ~ ~ Hierarchic Menu Primer ~ MPW Tips ~ Jim Couch Resigns As Editor ~ ~ X, Y, And Zmodem Specs Uploaded To Library ~ GNO/ME 2.0 RTC Transcript ~ ~ 8/16 Central Tour Begins ~ Thinking About Online Communications ~ ~ HOT NEWS, HOT FILES, HOT MESSAGES ~ ////////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ GEnieLamp A2Pro ~ A T/TalkNET OnLine Publication ~ Vol.1, Issue 08 """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Editor.....................................................Jim B. Couch Publisher.................................................John Peters Copy-Editor............................................Bruce Maples \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\//////////////////////////////////// ~ GEnieLamp IBM ~ GEnieLamp ST ~ GEnieLamp [PR] ~ GEnieLamp TX2 ~ ~ GEnieLamp A2Pro ~ GEnieLamp Macintosh ~ LiveWire Online ~ ~ Member Of The Digital Publishing Association ~ GE Mail: GENIELAMP Internet: genielamp@genie.geis.com FTP: sosi.com ////////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ >>> WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE APPLE A2Pro ROUNDTABLE? <<< """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" ~ October 1, 1993 ~ FROM MY DESKTOP ......... [FRM] HEY MISTER POSTMAN ...... [HEY] Notes From The Editor. Is That A Letter For Me? A2PRO ROUNDTABLE STAFF .. [DEV] TOUR OF 8/16 CENTRAL .... [TOU] Directory of A2Pro Staff. Great Programmers Magazine. LIBRARY BIT BONANZA ..... [LIB] OFF THE DEEP END ........ [OFF] HOT Files You Can Download. Something Completely Different. NIGHTS OF THE ROUNDTABLE [RTC] REFLECTIONS ............. [REF] Real Time Conference Watch. About Online Commmunications. GNO/ME 2.0 RTC TRANSCRIPT [GNO] LOG OFF ................. [LOG] Unix for the IIgs Improves GEnieLamp Information. [IDX]""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" READING GEnieLamp GEnieLamp has incorporated a unique indexing """"""""""""""""" system to help make reading the magazine easier. To utilize this system, load GEnieLamp into any ASCII word processor or text editor. In the index you will find the following example: HUMOR ONLINE ............ [HUM] [*]GEnie Fun & Games. To read this article, set your find or search command to [HUM]. If you want to scan all of the articles, search for [EOA]. [EOF] will take you to the last page, whereas [IDX] will bring you back to the index. MESSAGE INFO To make it easy for you to respond to messages re-printed """""""""""" here in GEnieLamp, you will find all the information you need immediately following the message. For example: (SMITH, CAT6, TOP1, MSG:58/M530) _____________| _____|__ _|O__ |____ |_____________ |Name of sender CATegory TOPic Msg. Page number| In this example, to respond to Smith's message, log on to page 475 enter the bulletin board and set CAT 6. Enter your REPly in TOPic 1. A message number that is surrounded by brackets indicates that this message is a "target" message and is referring to a "chain" of two or more messages that are following the same topic. For example: {58}. ABOUT GEnie GEnie's monthly fee is $8.95 for which gives you up to four """"""""""" hours of non-prime time access to most GEnie services, such as software downloads, bulletin boards, GE Mail, an Internet gateway, multi-player games and chat lines, are allowed without charge. GEnie's non-prime time connect rate is $3.00. To sign up for GEnie service, call (with modem) 1-800-638-8369. Upon connection type HHH. Wait for the U= prompt. Type: XTX99014,DIGIPUB and hit RETURN. The system will then prompt you for your information. Need more information? Call GEnie's customer service line (voice) at 1-800-638-9636. """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" //////////////////////////// GEnie_QWIK_QUOTE //// / "Keeping weight off is pretty simple actually. / / My grandfather used to recommend "push-aways. / / Not push-ups. / / Push-aways...you push the plate away." / //////////////////////////////////// R.IMMLER //// [EOA] [FRM]////////////////////////////// FROM MY DESKTOP / ///////////////////////////////// Notes From My Desktop """"""""""""""""""""" o TOP OF THE PAGE o NOTES FROM THE PUBLISHER >>> TOP OF THE PAGE <<< """"""""""""""""""""""" ~ By Jim B. Couch [GELAMP.A2PRO] ~ WELCOME TO THE OCTOBER A2Pro GEnieLamp! This month marks some changes in """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" the way the lamp is published. In the past John Peters [GENIELAMP] did much of the layout for all of the GEnieLamps. Now the responsibility of laying out each lamp is the responsibility of the individual editor. This has given me a little more 'artistic' control and I have added a couple of new things. As always your input concerning the Lamp is welcome. This publication is for the members of A2Pro, and your input is important. Just send your questions, comments, and suggestions to GELAMP.A2PRO via E-mail. This month's Lamp also will probably also be the last Lamp I have the privilege to produce. I have had the opportunity to purchase a business that I am currently managing and I will not be able to continue to edit the A2Pro GEnieLamp. Do not fear, although I will not be editing the lamp, it will continue under the editorship of another person. With my departure, there is a need for more people to be involved in publishing the A2Pro Lamp. If you are interested in writing for the Lamp contact GELAMP.A2PRO. Working for the Lamp is indeed work, but it is also a lot of fun, and you are compensated with online time! To all of you out there downloading and reading GEnieLamp A2Pro, thank you for all of your support. For those who have posted comments and compliments, I can't thank you enough. Your encouragement has meant the world to me. I have immensely enjoyed producing the A2Pro Lamp for you all. Thank you and enjoy the Lamp! Jim Couch GEnieLamp/A2Pro >>> NOTES FROM THE PUBLISHER <<< """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" ~ By John Peters [GENIELAMP] ~ FINALLY, FULL INTERNET ACCESS My latest online adventure started when I """"""""""""""""""""""""""""" spotted an ad in a local computer zine for low cost access to Internet via an online system called Spectrum. Hmmmm... Full access to Internet for only $12.95 a month? That's certainly worth a phone call. So I logged on, had a look around, liked what I saw and signed up. Since Internet access was the reason I signed on in the first place, I immediately went to the Internet area. FTP? Telnet? UUCP? It quickly became obvious that for this online adventure I was first going to have to do some serious homework. So, my first step was to add the Internet RoundTable to my Aladdin auto-pass. Second, I raided their file areas looking for anything and everything I could find on Internet. (For an excellent primer on Internet, download Zen and the Art of the Internet, file #40. To get there type: M1045;3). Armed with this newly learned knowledge, I once again logged into the Internet system. My first destination was the Cleveland FreeNet, a popular system that I used to log onto in my old PC Pursuit days. Within seconds I had logged on and was searching their file bases for interesting tidbits. It felt like old times again... So, what does all of this have to do with GEnieLamp? I am happy to announce that the nice folks at Spectrum have decided to offer GEnieLamp to their subscribers and will now also offer GEnieLamp to Internet members via FTP anonymous access. The address is: sosi.com and the Lamps are available in the ~/pub/GEnieLamp directory. My personal address on Spectrum Online Systems is: jpeters.sosi.com If you do get GEnieLamp via Internet, take a moment to go to our local conference area, local.genielamp and tell me about you and your Internet adventure. Who knows? Working together maybe we'll both be able to figure out this wonderful thing called Internet! Until next month... John Peters GEnieLamp/DigiPub RoundTable [EOA] [DIR]////////////////////////////// A2PRO ROUNDTABLE STAFF / ///////////////////////////////// By Jim B. Couch [GELAMP.A2PRO] ______________________________________________ APPLE II PROGRAMMERS & DEVELOPERS ROUNDTABLE _____ ______ ______________________________________________ /_____|/______\ /__/|__| ___|__| Head Sysop: Matt Deatherage (M.DEATHERAGE) /__/_|__| /_____/ Assistants: Steve Gunn (A2PRO.STEVE) /________|/__/ __ __ __ Greg Da Costa (A2PRO.GREG) /__/ |__|__/______ /_//_// / Todd P. Whitesel (A2PRO.TODDPW) /__/ |__|________// / \/_/ Jim Maricondo (A2PRO.DYAJIM) [*][*][*] [EOA] [HEY]////////////////////////////// HEY MISTER POSTMAN / ///////////////////////////////// Is That A Letter For Me? """""""""""""""""""""""" By Jim B Couch [GELAMP.A2PRO2] o BULLETIN BOARD HOT SPOTS o A2PRO ODDS & ENDS o WHAT'S NEW? o PROGRAMMER'S TIPS o HELP WANTED o HOT TOPICS o MESSAGE SPOTLIGHT >>>BULLETIN BOARD HOT SPOTS <<< """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""" [*] CAT10, TOP28, MSG{1}..............................Hierarchic INIT [*] CAT15, TOP15, MSG{133}...............................Menu Manager [*] CAT17, TOP10, MSG{1}......General Help on File Transfer Protocols [*] CAT19, TOP15, MSG{90}..................MPW IIgs Cross Development [*] CAT21, TOP4, MSG{40}.........................Menus and menu bars [*] CAT36, TOP32, MSG{59}........................................Logo >>> A2PRO ODDS & ENDS <<< """"""""""""""""""""""""" CURRENT A2PRO RTC SCHEDULE """""""""""""""""""""""""" Sun @ 8:30pm: The A2Pro Sunday Night RTC - general programming Mon @ 9:30pm: Toolbox Tricks and GS/OS Gadgets - program the toolbox and GS/OS with your host, Dave Miller Tue : No RTC. B-(> Wed @ 9:30pm: HangTime's HyperBar and Grille - discuss HyperCard IIgs programming tricks Thu @ 9:30pm: The Graphics and Sound Workshop with your host, Nate Trost Fri @ 9:30pm: Sloanie's Introduction to Programming Sat @ 8:30pm: Brian Wells brings you Assembly Language Programming All times are eastern daylight time. -- HangTime (A2.HANGTIME, CAT1, TOP5, MSG:69/M530) HIERARCHIC INIT GETS IT'S OWN TOPIC Due to the increasing level of """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" discussion, and the imminent release of the programming information, I have created a topic for discussing the use of the Hierarchic INIT in your programs. This new topic is Topic 28 in Category 10 (Tools and Utilities for Programmers). Please continue all Hierarchic related discussion there. Nate (hierarchical BB topics? Don't we wish.....) (N.TROST [65Nate16], CAT15, TOP15, MSG:137/M530) COME JOIN THE A2PRO RTC! It's been just over a month now that we've """""""""""""""""""""""" held help for programmers live six nights a week in A2Pro's real-time conference (RTC). Now that we've settled in, we notice that while lots of people drop by, it's only a small percentage of the folks we know are visiting the roundtable, or who are reading this message. We provide this service to help people with programming -- learning, debugging, discussing or implementing. We book guests like Jawaid Bazyar, who talked to a big room full of people last week about GNO/ME 2.0, or Mike Westerfield, coming on September 13th to discuss 3D Logo. In addition to our informal Sunday Night Jam get-together, we have RTCs on assembly language (Saturday nights), getting started with programming (Fridays), graphics and sound (Thursday), Toolbox and GS/OS programming (Monday) and hypermedia with HangTime on Wednesdays. We think this is a pretty impressive lineup, but a lot of you apparently don't, because you don't stop by. Our question to you: What can we do to improve our RTCs? --Matt (A2Pro head sysop) (M.DEATHERAGE [A2Pro Leader], CAT1, TOP5, MSG:57/M530) [*][*][*] >>> WHAT'S NEW? <<< """"""""""""""""""" MICOL ADVANCED BASIC NEWS In the last mailing I received from Micol, """"""""""""""""""""""""" they were advertising the Desktop Construction Set for 29.95. This was shortly after the release of MAB //e v.4.5. These are a set of routines to add to your code to write desktop programs using MAB. Instructions are included (on disk). - Otis (P.LARSON12, CAT9, TOP18, MSG:10/M530) MPW SOURCEMENU SCRIPT NOW AVAILABLE IN LIBRARY A lot of people here know """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" that I use MPW IIGS and I've been asked by a few people if I'd upload some of my scripts and whatnot. I just uploaded "SourceMenu". A vastly improved version of the same script that Apple provides with MPW. (If nothing else, mine at least supports AsmIIGS files :) I'll be uploading more scripts in the future (ORCAToMPW, MerlinToMPW, etc) and I'll also be uploading my macros for MPW IIGS assembler. Much better than the M16.Util macros that Apple provides. (BRYAN.ZAK, CAT1, TOP30, MSG:75/M530) HIERARCHIC INIT INFO UPLOADED TO A2PRO LIBRARY Licensing, programming, """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" and technical information has been posted; the "HI.ProgInfo.BXY" file should be released and available soon! (SEVENHILLS [Dave], CAT10, TOP28, MSG:1/M530) ED NOTE: HI.ProInfo.BXY is File #3552 in the A2Pro Library. >>> PROGRAMMER'S TIPS <<< """"""""""""""""""""""""" A PRIMER ON HIERARCHICAL MENUS When a menu item is "Hierarchical" it """"""""""""""""""""""""""""" simply means that highlighting that menu item will pop open a "sub-menu" from which you can make selections. Platinum Paint is probably the program most everyone has, and the second release uses hierarchic menus (but not via our Hierarchic INIT). Using hierarchic menus is not "important", but there are some advantages for organization in a very large program. For example, instead of having 12 different menus, you might be able to logically combine some menus (e.g. in a page layout USING HIERARCHIC MENUS IS program you might have a NOT "IMPORTANT", BUT THERE ARE "Type" menu, and that menu you SOME ADVANTAGES FOR ORGANIZATION might have items for "Font" IN A VERY LARGE PROGRAM. "Size" and "Style". On highlighting, those items would present an appropriate sub-menu. By having those three "main" choices stuck onto a "Type" menu, you save the space of having 3 separate menus on the main menu bar. Hierarchic menus shouldn't be used just for the sake of using them; like other interface elements you should only use hierarchic menus when there is a good need. (Apple discourages their use because not all the menu items are immediately visible to the user, but hierarchic menus are widely used on the Mac anyway.) What _IS_ important is that there be one standard way of implementing hierarchic menus in your application. Having several different, competing methods will just cause confusion, and probably severe compatibility problems. We are proposing that our Hierarchic INIT become the standard that everyone should use. Not only is our INIT already completed, but it has been used successfully in several commercial products, and more to come (it is already installed on many people's systems). I will monitor this topic, and we will gladly support Hierarchic to fix any bugs you might discover (the INIT is already at v1.6.1 and appears to be very stable at this point). If you play with Hierarchic and have a "BRAM checker", you may notice that the Hierarchic INIT changes two values in BRAM. This is intentional -- they are the "Initial Delay" and "Drag Delay" values, and the BRAM locations have been officially assigned by Apple--we ain't breakin' any rules! :) Thanks, --Dave (SEVENHILLS [Dave], CAT10, TOP28, MSG:3/M530) HUMAN INTERFACE CONCERNS RELATED TO HIERARCHICAL MENUS Apple also """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" discourages their use because they're _really_ hard for some people to use. I've pretty much given up on any program that APPLE ALSO DISCOURAGES THEIR _only_ lets me change fonts USE BECAUSE THEY'RE _REALLY_ HARD through a hierarchical font FOR SOME PEOPLE TO USE. menu (as in they have a menu item named "Fonts" and it pops up a regular font menu as a submenu). If I move off the top of the menu to scroll it, but I hit another menu in the menu bar, it switches to that menu and I have to start all over again. Hierarchical menus are _very_ difficult for some people to use. Apple says absolutely, positively never have them more than one level deep, and don't use them at all if there are other ways. Except in 320 mode, "I don't have enough menu bar room" probably means you could use menu bar and command redesign. --Matt (M.DEATHERAGE [A2Pro Leader], CAT21, TOP4, MSG:40/M530) QUICK TIPS ON USING MPW First, if you're like me, you have one folder """"""""""""""""""""""" (mine's called "Projects") and that's where all your current, uh, projects are. The following added to your UserStartUp- script can be handy: UNSET EXIT DirectoryMenu `files -d -f {Boot}Projects` directory "{Boot}Projects:WWPro 2.1" }} DEV:NULL SourceMenu :source: SET EXIT 1 (NOTE: the }} is supposed to be error-out and is typed as option->) What does this do? First, exit is unset so that errors don't causing the script to be aborted. Then all the folders in the {Boot}Projects folder are added to the Directory menu (so that selecting them automatically makes them the current directory!). after that I set the current directory to whatever project I'm currently working on (in this case, WWPro 2.1). The error redirection is in case that folder doesn't exist (as happens when I move WWPro 2.1 out of my projects folder). Then, the best part. SourceMenu is used to build a menu of all the source files in :WWPro 2.1:source: -- this is good. I can then open a source file in the WWPro project simply by selecting it from the SourceMenu. Very good indeed. DirectoryMenu and Directory are built-in MPW tools. SourceMenu is a script that I recently uploaded to A2PRO. Have fun, and watch this spot for more MPW tips! Bryan (SOFTDISK.INC [Bryan Zak], CAT19, TOP15, MSG:90/M530) HOW DOES ONE CALCULATE TRANSFER TIME FOR FILES I started this topic since """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" I couldn't find any other place to post my questions. Topics 2 and 3 each discuss specific file transfer protocols, whereas I have a few "non-specific" questions. I've asked this question in the AppleNET category over in the A2RT before, but I never got a really clear answer on it. My question is, is there some sort of formula (for each baud rate or otherwise) I can use to calculate a reasonable estimation of the amount of time it'll take to transfer a file with a protocol that the user selects? (eg: Zmodem) It's been suggested that what I do is keep track of the CPS rates of previous file transfers, and use the averages of those as benchmarks for future transfers. But, is there any Q&D formula that can be used? Your help is much obliged! Derek Fong (M.POTTER4 [AppleNET], CAT17, TOP10, MSG:1/M530) >>>>> Note that most software first estimates and then re-adjusts the """"" estimation as the transfer goes on. What you do is take the bps rate, divide by 10 ... that gives you the maximum physical transmission rate. Now, let's assume your user uses Z-Modem, so you lose 3-4% (sometimes as much as 5%) of that due to protocol overhead. If the user has V.42 (bis doesn't matter much for packed data, which I also assume), the transmission rate will again go up by 10-15% (this is due to the fact that V.42 leaves out start and stop bits, and throughput is therefore higher). So, let's take an example: You user logs in at 16,800 bps, V.42bis, and uses Z-Modem to get packed data of a length of say 2.3 MB. Using the above "formula", you end up with roughly 1760 cps, which would take 1370 seconds. More often than not, actual throughput would be higher than just 1760 cps, so that is why most implementations I have seen start out "pessimistic" and then update their estimation according to real data transfer. Of course, at today's modem speed, there might not be a need for that ... who cares about +- 20 seconds :) About other protocols: X-Modem CRC halves transmission rate, roughly, I do not know about Y-Modem. Just try it out. Yours, Soenke (S.BEHRENS [Merino], CAT17, TOP10, MSG:2/M530) <<<<< Thanks for the help; it's really appreciated! I was hoping someone """"" out there would be able to give me more precise details on some of the, others: o Xmodem (CRC, 1k, Checksum) o Ymodem (batch and 4k) o Kermit Now that I have an idea of what Zmodem throughput is like, I'd also like to know if anyone out there has any idea about the other protocols I've mentioned. Any takers? Derek Fong (M.POTTER4 [AppleNET], CAT17, TOP10, MSG:3/M530) COMPLETE SPECS FOR XMODEM, YMODEM, AND ZMODEM Just tonight I uploaded """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" file #3560 to A2Pro's Library, which contains the complete specs for Xmodem, Ymodem, and Zmodem. :) Check it out and see if that helps you any. Dave (JUST.DAVE [m530 daily!], CAT17, TOP10, MSG:10/M530) HOW DOES ONE 'SPY' ON IPC? Anyone have any idea on how one would "spy" on """""""""""""""""""""""""" what is going on inside of the IPC communications system? I want to make a utility that would keep track of messages that are being sent around in IPC (especially those sent by name), and act on them, or even possibly intercept them. The idea here is to keep track of the messages between the Finder and any installed Finder Extras, but this would have other uses as well. Any suggestions?? --SnakeBytes (SNAKEBYTES [SnakeBytes], CAT15, TOP1, MSG:56/M530) >>>>> Richard Bennett has written a CDA to do just this. :-) You can """"" find IPCSpy in the A2Pro library, file #3421. Nate (N.TROST [65Nate16], CAT15, TOP1, MSG:57/M530) >>> PROGRAMMERS WANTED <<< """""""""""""""""""""""""" 65816 PROGRAMMERS WANTED FOR SNES DEVELOPMENT There's a new cartridge """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" development company starting up in central California. They're looking for 65816 (or 6502) assembly programmers for SNES development. You can fax a resume to 415-949-3935 (put "Attn: Lane & Aaron" on it) or call Lane Roath at 415-917-7866. Those numbers are good until mid October '93. Jay Jennings (PUNKWARE, CAT13, TOP8, MSG:57/M530) >>> HOT TOPICS <<< """""""""""""""""" SEVEN HILLS RESPONDS TO HIERARCHIC CONCERNS I just read the latest A2Pro """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" GENIELAMP. Unfortunately I don't have the time to cruise any boards except the Seven Hills one in A2, so I'm probably way late in getting in on the messages about our Hierarchic init...next time someone should drop me a note. :) First let me say that we do have an INIT that provides hierarchic menu capability on the IIGS. To an application, hierarchic menus behave and respond just like normal menus; the only extra effort is in creating and disposing of the menus, but that's minimal. >> If we all write such an init, I pity the poor user trying to run our >> software on his machine. With patch, upon patch, the poor Menu >> Manager will be freaking out. That is exactly why Hierarchic is available for licensing in your own applications; if anyone is interested, I will be happy to post some technical documentation along with the latest version of Hierarchic for experimentation. If you end up using Hierarchic and decide you want to include it with your program, you can license it from us. Now I've got to get on my soapbox! The following two comments irked me: >>> SOFTDISK.INC (Bryan) >> It's just too darned buggy >>> SNAKEBYTES >> I've heard that. The Hierarchic INIT has become infamous because of >> this. I would really like to know what you guys have heard that I haven't. In the life of Hierarchic I have heard only TWO complaints: -=> NUMBER 1: THE MOUSE BUTTON SOMETIMES "STICKS" DOWN. Hierarchic is using the "StillDown" toolbox call to determine whether the mouse button is still down, and the toolbox is telling us "yes, the mouse button is still down." I've never seen this on the IIGS, but the people who have usually have a Zip chip and/or RAMFast along with lots of other INITs. I _have_ seen it on my Mac, which is also loaded with INITs. I suspect the system is relying on interrupts to be able to look at the mouse status, and it's just coincidence that installing Hierarchic (one more init) is causing the "sticky" button to appear more often. Another indication that this may be true: the problem happens even when accessing menu items that are NOT controlled by Hierarchic. {BTW, technically this isn't even a "bug"; it's an annoyance that probably would not occur if you shift-booted and loaded Hierarchic by itself.} -=> NUMBER 2: DELETING NON-EXISTENT MENU ITEMS TRASHES MEMORY. The author of HardPressed reported this bug (THANK YOU ANDY!), and it was fixed within days of his report. {It was a simple oversight--our tool patch wasn't verifying the menu item existed before it deleted it.} If you get the feeling I'm slightly annoyed, you'd be right. ;) Bryan, especially you should know that unless a bug gets reported there is no way it can be fixed (unless we happen to stumble across it in our own development efforts). Have you encountered bugs you can definitely attribute to Hierarchic? Or have you just taken things you've "heard" and determined that Hierarchic is "too darned buggy" for anyone to use? I'll be very grateful to ANYONE who can tell me about bugs in Hierarchic (especially if it's more than just a "feeling" that a particular problem is caused by Hierarchic--though I don't mind hearing about those either). >> I know of four developers that have already toyed with hierarchical >> menus and now SnakeBytes will make five. This should be a big clue that writing hierarchic menus from scratch is NOT an easy task. >> This feature really should have been implemented by Apple. Regardless >> of whether or not they approve of it, it would have resulted in more >> stable system software for the USER. Well they didn't. And they won't. So instead of whining about what SHOULD have been, focus on what IS. Our INIT provides the hierarchic menu capability, and it's integrated into the existing Menu Manager (but done safely so the same patches have survived system updates through 6.0.1). And it is a "standard" that is already supported by several great products (and more products to come). So instead of reinventing the wheel and manufacturing different, conflicting ways to do this, why not help Seven Hills make the _existing_ product work better simply by reporting the bugs you encounter? {Despite rumors that are apparently circulating on systems I don't visit, we are extremely willing to fix bugs and to work with third parties to share our technologies.} Stepping off the soapbox... { I know, I know, it's a BIG step down... :) } Thanks, --Dave P.S. While I'm at it, I may as well growl at Richard too! ;) I agree with Matt on this one. But note that it _is_ possible to load Hierarchic v1.6.1 (in beta testing) on the fly. This means you can Shift-boot, yet still run The Manager v1.1 or Spectrum v1.0 (both in beta testing). In another "open" technology that we're developing, the INIT is segmented so that the portion in memory is extremely small...like just the IPC handler and the code to handle 2 or 3 small messages (e.g. "get version"). It doesn't start using more memory until you make a "startup" call to actually _use_ the features the INIT offers. So a well-written INIT doesn't HAVE to take up gobs of memory when it's not in use. P.P.S. The reason all our source is in Merlin is because that's what all our stuff is written in, and that's all we've used Hierarchic from. Perhaps some enterprising person could provide us with glue code (or whatever) for Pascal, C, etc.? And Bryan is right--tool illegal, IPC wouldn't work for 5.0.4. (SEVENHILLS [Dave], CAT15, TOP15, MSG:133/M530) >>> MESSAGE SPOTLIGHT <<< """"""""""""""""""""""""" Byteworks' introduction of 3D Logo for the GS has created quite a stir. A number of questions have come up concerning the implementation of the language. Probably the most asked question is why the language runs under an interpreter instead of a compiler. Mike Westerfield of Byteworks answers this question (and a number of others) in the following post: Category 36, Topic 32 Message 58 Tue Sep 21, 1993 BYTEWORKS at 11:54 EDT Trying to pin down the one distinguishing feature of Logo that makes it an interesting language worth your attention is a lot harder than trying to tell a C programmer what Pascal is all about, or a Pascal programmer what C is all about. The reason is pretty simple: unless you've used LISP or one of it's cousins, Logo is unlike any language you've ever seen. It's that different. To shed some light on the interpreted vs compiled aspect, though, let's go back to our AppleSoft days and think about a program I wrote that some of you probably wrote, too. I wanted to type in an equation as a program ran, and then have the program run that equation to do something with it -- displaying a graph, finding zeros, integrating it, and so forth. In C or Pascal, you would have to write a scanner, parser, and interpreter to handle equations. In AppleSoft, I evaluated the equation and poked it into memory. That's a _lot_ easier, but still took some work. In Logo, I would just use READWORD to read what you typed, then RUN to run it. That's just the tip of the iceberg, too. The whole _language_ works that way. That's why Logo & LISP are such good languages when you are writing something that can change as the programs run. At the top end, that could be a sophisticated AI program. At the bottom end, it can be something as simple as typing in an equation or entering the chemical formula for a molecule, then drawing it. (There's a sample movie in the A2Pro library that shows some molecules that were done this way.) If you're looking for a "better" C or Pascal, don't look at Logo. That's not what Logo is all about. If you're looking for a language that can do some things easily that are very, very difficult in C or Pascal, like self- modifying programs, AI, 3D graphics, interactive development, easy desktop programs, or speech, then Logo will do things a C or Pascal programmer just can't imagine. Trying to explain it is like trying to explain color to a blind man. But if you think Logo must be compiled, or that it ought to be in ORCA, you're a little like that blind man trying to understand color in terms of sound. You just can't. You have to "see" it! :) Mike Westerfield [*][*][*] While on GEnie, do you spend most of your time downloading files? If so, you may be missing out some excellent information in the Bulletin Board area. The messages listed above only scratch the surface of what's available and waiting for you in the bulletin board area. If you are serious about your Apple 2, the GEnieLamp staff strongly urge you to give the bulletin board area a try. There are literally thousands of messages posted from people like you from all over the world. [EOA] [GNO]////////////////////////////// GNO/ME 2.0 RTC TRANSCRIPT / ///////////////////////////////// Unix for the IIgs Improved """""""""""""""""""""""""" By Jim B.Couch [GELAMP.A2PRO] RECENTLY JAWAID BAZYAR OF PROCYON, INC. was the guest of A2Pro at a Round """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Table Conference. The topic under discussion was Procyon's newest version of GNO/ME. GNO/ME adds UNIX multitasking capabilities to the Apple IIgs. Greetings! Welcome to the GNO/ME 2.0 conference.! OK, here's how this works. I'm going to ask everyone to be paitient and wait their turn. First we'll have Jawaid say his introduction, then we'll ask for questions. If you'd like to ask a question, type /RAIse to raise your hand. OK, go ahead Jawaid. :) Hi, everyone, and thanks for coming! What is GNO? What is UNIX? UNIX is a very powerful operating system that started on mainframes and migrated down to PC's recently. GNO is an implementation of UNIX for the Apple IIGS. UNIX is a multitasking OS; many processes can be running at once, with extremely few restrictions on what those processes can do. For example, there is no need to specifically code "multitasking- awareness" in UNIX, as in other multitasking systems on the IIGS. This means you can concentrate on your program; GNO takes care of all the multitasking. GNO comes with a CLI (command line interface) called GSH, which allows you to control almost every aspect of the system, including controlling processes and what not. The GNO Kernel does all the nitty gritty work of actually switching between processes; and GNO comes with 80 plus utilities to do tasks from text processing to helping write compilers to printing the date :) GNO also has tremendous built-in communications facilities; controlling a modem is only a few short lines of C or assembly! With the communications support comes multi-user support; you can be "logged into" your IIGS multiple times, over a terminal or modem. (For the curious, GNO/ME is pronounced "guh-know em ee", and stands for nothing in particular :-) (well, the 'ME' is for Multitasking Environment). Can one now run more than desktop Application at a time? Sorry, no, not like The Manager. However, the definition of "desktop" application is a bit different in GNO 2.0, due to the Graphical Shell Interface we have. So far, the only thing I've seen TM do, multitasking-wise, is unshrink files in the background, and that's something that GNO can do quite handily with a simple shell command. It's a different approach. If you want, you _can_ run Switch-It! inside GNO, for multiple desktop programs _and_ UNIX multitasking. So, with Switch-It, can one multitask with more than one Desktop App?...assuming the use of GNO of course. No, the desktop apps don't multitask, but if you can think of desktop programs that actually benefit from multitasking that we don't have provided utilities for, I'll seriously consider adding it :) Oh! The Graphical Shell Interface allows you to run a shell (and associated commands) in a window in any desktop application. The obvious question: do tasks running under GNO need to be written a particular way, or can existing programs off the shelf run under GNO as is? Almost all existing GS/OS software runs fine under GNO, but only one desktop app at a time. (Switch-It! counts as "one" desktop app) Being a full Unix environment, what are the Internet client possibilities? We expect that our TCP/IP implementation for GNO will be in beta testing by the end of the year, probably sooner. At that point, you can use SLIP or MacTCP (or even the EtherTalk card if it arrives) to directly connect your IIGS to the Internet with GNO. TCP/IP is the standard Internet Protocol.. basically a fancy term meaning "I can talk to the Internet directly". Can I use DAs on GNO/ME? Sure, inside a desktop program. You could run Teach, or Finder, or AWGS, or whatever, and use DAs (NDAs, I presume). GSI (Graphical Shell Interface) is an NDA. (One of the things GSI allows is to use _any_ editor to do your programming, then select the shell NDA and compile. Instantly.) So do I boot to GS/OS and let it load the DAs then switch to GNO/ME, or does GNO/ME load the DAs? GNO runs on top of GS/OS, as an application. That gives the greatest flexibility, and compatibility. Once inside GNO, though, it's a whole new world. So, if I wanted to set up a BBS and offer internet access to my subscribers, that is possible? Yes.. you'd need BBS software, which is very easy to write because of the built-in communications support GNO offers. And by the end of the year, you should be able to have Internet access by one of three methods: direct connection (TCP/IP), UUCP, and Morgan Davis' Internet transport system (I don't recall the name offhand). UUCP basically does batch transmissions of email and news. There are two email systems for GNO, and one of them doubles as a news system. So, as soon as the transport is in, GNO basically _is_ an Internet-capable BBS. Can I run C programs coded for unix mainframes on the GS? For instance there is a Zmodem rz/sz source code in the Library? can I use that with little modification? Yes.. many of the utilities included with GNO were taken directly from UNIX, with little or no modification. For convenience, we've included rz/sz with GNO/ME 2.0 :-) Can I make shell scripts in GNO? What shells is it compatible with? GNO's shell, gsh, is a lot like the UNIX C-shell (csh). At this time gsh does not have a programming language, but you can write scripts which execute a sequence of commands. So a 'shell script' currently is the same as typing a bunch of commands at the prompt, right? Correct. We hope to add full IF/THEN/ELSE (etc) support to gsh soon. Can you give us a summary of the utilities included with 2.0? Number, names of some, brief description of some of the cool ones...etc.... As mentioned earlier there are over 80 utilities included with GNO. rz/sz handle file communications, but mundane activities such as catalog listings, file copying and process control commands are also included. Let's see.. on-line manual system, AWGS/AW3.0 text formatters, calendar printer, all sorts of text manipulation, text file searches (with wildcard support), ORCA language support, data compression, project maintenance, ShrinkIt archive extractor, BINSCII/UUENCODE/APACK/TAR extractor and archivers, and much more. Suffice it to say then that GNO comes on 3 3.5" disks, all _compressed_. :) I'm confused. Is GNO/ME a Finder-type program, or a compiler like ORCA? What is Unix? UNIX is an operating system; like GS/OS, it provides 'services' to application programs. In GNO's case, the services range from communications, IPC, to multi-process control. GNO/ME is the name for the entire system, which encompasses the kernel, shell, 80 utilities, and support for ORCA languages. GNO isn't a compiler, but you can use any Byteworks product (except Prism) in GNO.. GNO often makes using said tools more pleasant :) IPC? (Inter-process Communication - different programs 'talking' to each other) If I know an ORCA language, what's the advantage to owning GNO/ME? For example, if you were going to compile a large program, you could do it in the background, while you moved on to the task of your choice. ORCA is strictly a programming environment, whereas GNO goes far beyond that. For example, the other night, I was working on parts of the GNO system (ORCA editor & ORCA/C) while Andrew here was in a GEnie RTC - through a terminal hooked into the IIGS. Two completely different tasks running on the same IIGS. Do the GSOS FST operate fully with GNO? How well does ORCA/C work with GNO? Do you have your own C compiler? How about Compact disk access? If one has an accelorator, how many programs can be running before the user notices slow response? Whew! Let's see. :) Yes, AppleShare, HFS, MS-DOS, etc. all work fine under GNO (since it runs under System 6.0 or 6.0.1). ORCA runs beautifully with GNO. Mike Westerfield and I got together and made changes to the ORCA system and GNO so they could cooperate better (like ORCA/C support for running in the background). Response times vary, depending on what is running. One of the best things about GNO is that it is designed to "know" when a program is waiting for some event to happen (like the user to type a command, or waiting for modem input). In these cases the program is put "to sleep" and takes no CPU time! What do you consider a standard UNIX? Will it support all the fun stuff like tar, grep, cc, dbg, troff, man, etc....And will you include a hack? Gotta have hack! GNO/ME 2.0 comes with tar, grep/egrep/fgrep, nroff, man.. Byteworks provides the C compiler and debugger, and Moria and Rogue have been ported to GNO. Wow! 100% hit ratio! :) (oops, I'd better clarify - GNO/ME does _not_ come with ORCA/C or debugger - that must be purchased separately) Wow! vi? I could go on, but it could get silly. I'm just looking for general guidelines. Yes, vi too :) Is working knowledge of C and/or Unix a prerequisite in any way for getting the most from GNO, or can one get by just by using the canned programs? Is GNO fully compatible with Hardpressed? C - no, you don't need to know C. Unix - well, it's a UNIX system, so the more you know the more you'll get out of it. We include a comprehensive manual for the system and the shell in particular, and also have an extensive bibliography of beginner's UNIX texts you can buy (or borrow). Yes, GNO is fully compatible with HardPressed, as Andy and I also collaborated to ensure HP would operate smoothly. will the GS under GNO eventually rival a Sun workstation? :) For the cost, definitely :) I run a ProDOS 8 BBS (Warp Six!). What would I gain from owning GNO/ME, ie what advantage would I have? How did you mean, "Moria & Rogue have been ported to GNO"? GA Since GNO cannot run P8 applications, not much (in the case of Warp 6). However, when someone writes BBS software for GNO... multiline BBS, you can still use your computer even when someone is on the BBS... By 'ported' I mean the original source code has been modified to run in GNO (all UNIX systems tend to be subtly different, hence the changes) (source code for almost everything is in C, and is available for your perusal upon request - I'll probably upload a good chunk of it to GEnie as well). What are all these man, vi, tar, and grep being discussed? GA 'man' is an electronic manual - you can read the documentation for almost everything included with GNO on your screen without finding the book :) vi is a handy and quick text editor.. tar is an archive format that can put lots of files into one file (kinda like ShrinkIt), and grep searches text files for strings.. you can use wildcard expressions, which makes grep _very_ powerful). What about a communications program? Do you have one? (With GNO, that is.) There are two.. one is a simple 'dumb-terminal' called 'copycat'; if you upload a description of GNO's console to your remote system (termcap), it will handle full-screen displays. Copycat has some miscellaneous useful features as well. (copycat can execute a shell command and write the output to the modem, for instance) The other is the venerable TelCom, available here on GEnie. It's a text-mode 16-bit comm program with VT100, X/YModem, and scrollback. Is GNO/ME compatible with AutoArk? I haven't personally used AutoArk, but it should work. ga I own an older version of ORCA/C...the one just before 2.0. Will I have to upgrade? ORCA/C 1.3 works in GNO (I still use it sometimes) fine; C 2.0 works _better_ (there were a couple issues that got worked out, mostly dealing with access to the keyboard). If I have my Unix BBS running with someone online, can I launch AWGS and do my work while the BBS is running...assuming the BBS is non-desktop? Yes, exactly. One more. I can connect an Apple IIe to the GS serial port and "logon" to it with Proterm? Yes. You can even connect an ancient VT100 terminal to it (like I do) :-) What kind of security is there for remote logins? UNIX file permissions? Restricted shells? mkroot? If you install the multi-user package, logins are protected by an encrypted password scheme. At this time we don't have file permissions or rshells, but the next GNO release will address the issue. Basically, it's a "Trust your users" setup right now. Shells aren't hard to write, so a restricted shell is definitely a possibility. We're thinking along the lines of a protection database like AppleShare. How much does v2.0 cost? What was the last version, and what does v2.0 include that the previous version didn't? GNO/ME 2.0 is around $90.. you can purchase it from Resource Central, or for a limited time, directly from us. Upgrade is $33-$38, depending on domestic/foreign shipment. 2.0 includes complete documentation for one; about 40 more utilities, and all manner of new features. the Multi-user stuff; the additions are rather extensive. Ah! Brand-new serial drivers which are about 300-400% faster than the old ones. There's a whole topic full of the additions in 2.0 in our Category in A2Pro (Cat 30). Jawaid: What steps should programmers take to ensure complete compatibility with GNO? (ie what are some basic guidelines?) There are just a few issues, really, since GNO does most of the work. One, minimize bank 0 usage (becoming very important with GNO and Switch-It!). Second, never ever directly access the keyboard hardware/screen hardware. ** disconnected. Well, that's a bummer. So, to keep everyone interested -- We'll give away a free copy of GNO! Here's how we do it -- we use the magic GEnie to pick one person here not on staff or assisting in A2Pro, and we then ask that person an Incredibly Complex Question (tm). If you're picked and you get it right, you win GNO/ME 2.0 (or an upgrade if you already own 1.x!) By my magic counting, that gives us Rich. Are you ready for your question, Rich? yup Here it is: What mythical species is spelled almost exactly the same as "GNO/ME"? Fourier analysis tells me the answer is "gnome" Ta-daah! wheee Now that Jawaid's back, and due to the hour, we're going to open up the floor for discussion. Don't step all over each other shouting at Jawaid at once or we'll go back to protocol so everyone can get an answer. :) As long as we're talking about Internet, is SLIP hardware a theoretical possibility? SLIP runs on a standard modem or direct serial line; you can also do Internet over AppleTalk or Ethernet. Jawaid, is GSI ever going to be updated so that the display looks better? Like give it a VT100 emulation at least! Jim - yes, Derek T. is supposed to be working on that, but I may beat him to the punch :) WAY COOL Jawaid, if one of your tasks is timing sensative (i.e., data acquisition) will the multitasking foul up the timing? I've run into that problem with The Manager. Airship - yes, but you can, if you must, tell the system to temporarily stop task switching.. also, using interrupts will help. Hmmmm, I'd love to find a way to run a foreground task on a GS while is was taking data. At present my data rates are fairly slow, 1 to 5 points per second. At 1 to 5 points per second, you're going to have a hard time missing data in GNO; GNO task switches on average 20 times per second. I may give it a try! The timing problem probably occurs in the wait cycle between points. With The Manager the system slows down in the ball park of 10-15%. GNO's overhead has been measured at around 5%. Am I correct in assuming from the conversation that you can drop into P8 from GNO? BiG - there is a 'launch' command that will Quit-To a P8 program once you exit GNO, but you can't run P8 inside GNO. (unless a ProDOS-8 emulator happens) You could do an actual emulator, where it interpreted the 6502 code, but that's really slow (but also better than nothing). Jawaid - when will it be possible to use a GNO term program and say, background download in GNO? Jim - I can do that now :) Good :) How? Sure, Jim - use TelCom to log in/interact, then OA-Q and use RZ/SZ in the background. Then go off and do whatever. You can use copycat too. Speaking of crashes... Mac System 7 can recover from a task crash without losing the rest of the system. Will GNO be able to do that eventually? Rich - GNO can do that to an extent, about the same extent that System 7 or the Mac can (that is, just hope that something in the system didn't get clobbered). If you bonk into the monitor, in most cases you can hit "^C" and the crashed process is killed and you return to the shell. Or you can use the GNO CDA and kill the process from there.. End of transcript [EOA] [DEV]////////////////////////////// DEVELOPER'S CORNER / ///////////////////////////////// News From The A2Pro Online Developers """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" By Jim B.Couch [GELAMP.A2PRO] >>> ONLINE SUPPORT IN A2PRO <<< """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""" CAT TOP COMPANY === === ======= 29 INDEPENDENT DEVELOPERS ONLINE 2 DYA/DigiSoft Innovations Online 8 Simplexity Software Online 14 Quality Computers Q-LABS Online 20 DreamWorld Software Online 26 METAL/FV Software Online 32 Kitchen Sink Software Online 30 PROCYON, INC. 31 SOFTDISK PUBLISHING 32 MORGAN DAVIS GROUP (MDG) 33 GS+ MAGAZINE 34 JEM SOFTWARE 35 LUNAR PRODUCTIONS 36 THE BYTE WORKS Each month this column feature highlights and news from various developers who provide support via A2Pro. >>> NEWS FROM THE INDEPENDENT DEVELOPERS <<< """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" NEWS FROM DYA/DIGISOFT The latest (revised June 14, 1993) edition of the """""""""""""""""""""" Twilight II Generation 2 Module Format (G2MF) Reference is now available in the library (File #3542.) In addition, sample C source code for Ball, a working Twilight II module with full setup and sound, is NOW AVAILABLE! (FINALLY!) Check out file #3543. And bring all your T2 module programming questions RIGHT HERE!! :-) <>> NEWS FROM PROCYON INC. <<< """""""""""""""""""""""""""""" GNO/ME 2.0 RTC TRANSCRIPT NOW AVAILABLE The transcript from the highly """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" successful GNO/ME 2.0 RTC is now available for downloading in the A2Pro library! Lots of great information and answers about what GNO is, what it does, and why you need it. Check out this transcript today! The text file transcript archived with ShrinkIt and uploaded as a .BXY file is available as file #3540. The plain text file that can be downloaded or listed is available as file #3541. Nate (GNO Excuse! Download the transcript! :-) (Graphics and Sounds RTC Thursdays at 9:30 Eastern in A2Pro RTC!) (N.TROST [65Nate16], CAT30, TOP5, MSG:33/M530) >>> NEWS FROM SOFTDISK PUBLISHING <<< """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" SOFTDISK SUBMITTER GUIDELINES AVAILABLE Recently someone asked me if we """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" had any guidelines or whatever for submitting to Softdisk. Welp, the short answer is, YES! In Library 31 of A2Pro you'll find various guidelines. There are three different documents (in two different formats, ASCII text and Teach): 1. Softdisk Submitter Guidelines 2. Softdisk Programmer Guidelines 3. Softdisk G-S Programmer Guidelines The first document is quite short (1 page actually) and simply describes the process and technicalities of submitting a program, art, music, etc to us. The other two documents are basically a list of tips on programming for either Softdisk of Softdisk G-S. They are a compilation of things we've asked submitters to change in the past, things we require of programs, etc. Even if you have no plans on submitting to Softdisk, you may want to check these two documents out. Reading them will help ensure that your programs have that "professional" look. ---------------------- If you have any questions, comments or suggestions about any of our guidelines, please, let me know! Bryan Pietrzak - Softdisk Publishing (SOFTDISK.INC [Bryan Zak], CAT31, TOP6, MSG:3/M530) >>> NEWS FROM GS+ MAGAZINE <<< """""""""""""""""""""""""""""" REALLY -- GS+ DOES PAY FOR PROGRAM SUBMISSIONS! Well, after 4 years of """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" publication, we've finally started to get people to submit programs to us! :-) So, if you've got a program on the burner and you'd like to get some $ for it, why not submit it? You'll probably get more money than you would for shareware. (JWANKERL [Joe], CAT33, TOP2, MSG:3/M530) >>> NEWS FROM THE BYTE WORKS <<< """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" 3D LOGO SEMINARS IN A2PRO DURING OCTOBER! Create a 3D cube that jumps """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" right out of your screen with just a few lines of a simple programming language. Rotate the cube to create a movie with just one more line. Create a complete desktop program with just a few dozen lines. You can learn to do all this and more in a series of live seminars. GS+ magazine says the 3D Logo demonstration at KansasFest this year was their favorite session. They saw Mike Westerfield take the chemical formula from a person in the audience, type in the formula, and create a movie of the molecule rotating on the screen -- all in about 15 minutes, while describing the process step-by-step! Roger Wagner picked our Logo as the standard scripting language for HyperStudio Mac. He was impressed with the combination of a language so simple it's used with second grade kids, yet so powerful it's used for artificial intelligence. Now you can create movies of rotating molecules with a few easy commands. Draw houses in 3D, and SEE them in 3D with our special 3D glasses. Learn Logo, a computer language so simple it's used with 2nd grade kids, yet so powerful it's used for advanced artificial intelligence work. Make your computer talk with statements as easy as BASIC's PRINT command. It's all there in 3D Logo, and now you can learn this powerful language in a series of four fun, fact-filled seminars with Mike Westerfield, author of 3D Logo. The seminars will cover: 7 Oct Introduction to the Logo Language 14 Oct Creating 3D Pictures 21 Oct Making Movies 28 Oct Desktop Programs Each seminar will meet at 9PM Eastern in one of the A2Pro conference rooms. Seminars are planned for 1 hour, but Mike will stay around longer if you have questions you'd like answered. You can also post questions and pick up reading assignments in Category 36, Topic 32 of A2Pro. Here's what you'll need: 1. An Apple IIGS computer. It should have at least 1.25M of memory, and you'll need a color screen for the true 3D displays. 2. 3D Logo. Regularly priced at $95, you can get 3D Logo for just $50 if you order before the seminars end! Don't get left out of the excitement! Join us for our online seminars, (which are brought to you at no extra charge!), and be sure to order your copy of 3D Logo soon, so you'll have it in time for the first seminar! To order, send your name, mailing address, and VISA or MC card number & expiration date to: E-mail: ByteWorks Phone: (505) 898-8183 (M-F, 8AM-5PM Mountain) Mail: Byte Works, Inc. 4700 Irving Blvd NW, Suite 207 Albuquerque, NM 87114 Please add $5 shipping in the U.S. If you are outside of the US, we'll be happy to tell you the shipping charges for your country. (A2PRO.HELP [ Sloanie ], CAT36, TOP32, MSG:59/M530) [EOA] [OFF]////////////////////////////// OFF THE DEEP END / ///////////////////////////////// Something Completely Different """""""""""""""""""""""""""""" By Nate Trost [N.TROST] >>> And Now for Something Completely Different... <<< """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" (sorry Monty :-) Toolbox Pulp Fiction Oh, Vector!" shouted Minnie Assembler. "You are such """""""""""""""""""" a cruel TaskMaster! Every time I GetNextEvent you have already given me a dozen new SendRequests, to my ID! Can you not WaitCursor even for a moment? My HeartBeat throbs wildly as I approach an Unclaimed Interrupt Error!" "No Minnie!" replied Vector. "MoveTo your next task! RunQ it like the wind!" To be Continued? [*][*][*] Overheard in RTC (pictures Beavis and Butthead on the II """""""""""""""" Alive cover) Cool! Heh heh huh heh heh Heh heh heh. AppleWorks 4.0. Heh heh. Cool. Heh HehHeh. Heh Heh, Randy Brandt. Heh Heh. He said "Brandt." Huhuhuhuh. Isn't that the stuff that keeps you regular? You know, like raisin brandt? Huhuhuhuhu. No, that's fiber and brandt. heh huh heh oh yeah. heh huh heh. Being regular is cool. heh huh heh. Fruit and... fruit and... uhhh, come on, idiot, it's right on the box! Huhuhuhuh. heh heh huh heh let's blow up a toilet he heh heh. [*][*][*] Top 10 Things You Miss by Not Attending A2Pro RTCs (In no particular """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" order) 10. The best songs from the 70s, 80s and 90s with less talk! 9. Costume Party--Dress Up Like Your Favorite Tool 8. Beavis and Butthead discuss AppleTalk 7. Chicken Chili Jamboree 6. Guest Night: Vice President Al Gore discusses how trimming the fat from code saves taxpayers valuable cycles 5. Spin the Bottle 4. Wheel of Opcodes 3. Brian Wells Assembly Night with Full Body Swedish Massage 2. Rocky Horror Picture RTC with Lunatic 1. Chance to win a copy of the home game! //////////////////////////////////////// GEnie_QWIK_QUOTE //// / "Hey, guys, Pascal let's you shoot yourself in the foot -- / / it just does it in a civilized way: / / / / procedure ShootFoot; extern; / / / / Then you let someone else do the dirty work. :)" / /////////////////////////////////////////////// BYTEWORKS //// [EOA] [TOU]////////////////////////////// TOUR OF 8/16 CENTRAL / ///////////////////////////////// The Great Programmers Magazine """""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Chris Budewig [K.FLYNN] >>> Your Tour of 8/16-Central - Introduction <<< """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" OK, AS PROMISED... (suggested, hinted at), I will be conducting you on a """""""""""""""""" tour of that great programmer's magazine, 8/16-Central. The tour will feature one issue each week in this topic and will let those of you who are one-at-a- time downloaders know just what you will be getting for your download time! :) Each tour will be structured in roughly the same way and will include directory listings of the files in the issue and give you a short description of each of the articles (but to find out what is actually IN each article, you'll have to download the issue!). Just keep in mind that 8/16-Central wasn't always published by Resource Central and so the directory structure of the issues does change over time. I'll Have a DLT On Rye, Please! Included with each issue are two """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""" general-purpose navigation programs called DLT 8 and DLT 16. DLT stands for Display Launcher Thingamajigs, which are text and graphics viewer programs that allow you to page through articles and source code listings, view diagrams, and launch programs & demos. The DLT's included with the first issue were not finished versions, but were completed in later issues and other features were added as time went on. Minimum requirements for these programs are a IIGS for DLT 16, or a 128K //e or better for DLT 8. >>> 8/16-Central - March, 1990 - File #3383 (ESC.9003.BXY) <<< """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" A full list of all files on every issue of 8/16 and 8/16-Central can be found in file #3382 (ESC.INDEX.BXY). Here is a condensed directory of this issue: /ES.CENTRAL.9003/ ..READ.ME Intro and Welcome ..IIgs/ ....READ.ME16 Description of 16-bit contents! ....INIT.MASTER/ Bill Tudor's CDev to manage loading of Inits/DA's ....ARTICLES/ ......MAR.90.HERBH/ Article: How to write CDevs (w/ TWGS CDev) ......MAR.90.STEVES/ Article: Filter Procedures and the Dialog Manager ......MAR.90.STEVEL/ Article: Illusions of Motion (part 1) ......DESKDRAW/ Article: Zen and the Art of Animation ....DEV.UTIL/ Some of Parik Rao's shell utilities: (UN)ACE - packs sounds using the A.C.E. toolset (UN)PACK - converts pictures between the $C0 and $C1 filetypes SETINFO - change file info from the shell SOURCER - convert any file to Assembly data ..Classic.Apples/ ....ReadMe8 Description of 8-bit contents! ....ZBASIC/ Article: Squirreling away data in Auxmem with ZBASIC ....BLU/ Floyd Zink's Binary Library Utility ....RELOCATION/ Article: Run-time relocation of 6502 Assembly using BRK's ....HARDWARE.HACK/ Article: Pushbuttons and Biofeedback ....EDITOR/ Article: Text Editor in Applesoft BASIC Jerry Kindall describes an interesting approach to relocating 8-bit code in real time in this issue. His method uses the BRK instruction to interrupt the program when an instruction is encountered that requires relocating! This reminds me of the technique I've seen Microsoft use in the Messy-DOS world to do floating point coprocessor emulators for QuickBASIC. Nifty, eh? >>> 8/16-Central - April, 1990 - File #3384 (ESC.9004.BXY) <<< """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" I'll be adding some codes to the condensed directory listing included with the tour of each issue. They will let you know what kinds of files are included in each item that is listed. The codes are: S : Source code -- what you need to create the program X : Executable program -- you can run this directly! D : Documentation -- tells how the program works and what to do with it A : Article -- explains a subject and probably the source code that demonstrates it There is a very fine line between a file labeled as Documentation and one labeled as Article -- I've chosen the one that seemed most appropriate in each case. I've also marked every program written in BASIC with both S and X since the source code to a BASIC program IS the executable! [grin] Here is my condensed directory of this issue: /ES.CENTRAL.9004/ ..READ.ME.816 Intro and Welcome ..IIgs/ ....Read.ME16 Description of 16-bit contents! ....Articles/ ......APF.Viewer/ (SXA) Loading Apple-Preferred Pictures using Pascal ......Info.Bar/ (SXA) How to put controls in the Info Bar of a window (or 'Bypassing the Control Manager' :) ....DevUtil.SRC/ (S) Source to Parik's utilities from last issue Includes: (UN)ACE, (UN)PACK, SETINFO, and SOURCER ....AWGS.MAXI Maximum- and minimum-sized APF pictures that are ....AWGS.MINI loadable by Appleworks GS. ..Classic.Apples/ ....Read.Me8 Description of 8-bit contents! ....LIGHT/ (SXA) A simple line editor for Applesoft ....ZBasic/ (S) Three ZBASIC programs: MLI.ERROR - Explores ZBASIC's error process with files -- doesn't look complete FN.BESTMATCHSTR - Selects which of a group of strings matches a target string the best FN.PARSEWORD - Breaks a string up into a series of 'words', returning one at a time ....ARCHIVE.LIST/ (XD) A 'pretty printer' for Applesoft programs ....FAZ.II/ (SXD) Change file and aux types from ProDOS 8 ....SOFTWORKS/ (XD) Adds the AppleWorks interface to BASIC programs! ....GETKEYMOUSE/ (SXA) Get keyboard and mouse input and display the current time with one call ....ZRAM.2.CLOCK/ (S) Demonstrates how to read the ZRAM clock ....SHARE/ (XD) Multitasking under ProDOS 8! From France ....THREE.D.DEMO/ (SXD) Three BASIC programs that demo 3D drawing techniques ....PRETTY.POLGONS/ (SXA) The Polygon Plot - drawing polygons with any rotation or X,Y,Z orientation A side note taken from the READ.ME.816 file: The First Law of Programming: All Programs Have Bugs The Second Law of Programming: All Bug Fixes Introduce Bugs The Third Law of Programming: Software is Never Done, Only Removed From the UnWilling Hands of Programmers Uh, okay. Back to reality. Be sure to check out the SHARE utility. It lets you run a machine language program in the background while running something else in the foreground! Multitasking on an 8-bit Apple ][! [EOA] [LIB]////////////////////////////// LIBRARY BIT BONANZA / ///////////////////////////////// HOT Files You Can Download """""""""""""""""""""""""" By Nate Trost [N.TROST] >>> Utilities <<< """"""""""""""""" File #3553: RESLIN.BXY V0.39 (GS) Uploaded on 9/17/93 by RICHARD.B About 70K (d/l time approx. 7 minutes @ 2400 baud) Allows you to view/edit resource forks, with some handy copy and duplicate functions. Also allows homegrown, plug-in editors. File #3551: VERSIBOX1.3.BXY (ALL) Uploaded on 9/14/93 by TOM.W About 15K (d/l time approx. 1 minute 30 seconds @ 2400 baud) VersiBox is a freeware contribution from Michael Chinn of Caro, MI. It's an ampersand routine for Applesoft that allows you to draw windows, buttons, boxes, and input fields on the 80-column text screen. Also includes a new input-anything routine and the ability to print to windows on the screen. File #3549: SPLITTER.BXY (GS) Uploaded on 9/10/93 by N.DODGEDODGE About 30K (d/l time approx. 3 minutes @ 2400 baud) This program will allow you to split up OMF files so they can be disassembled with MERLIN's Sorcerer. Shareware. >>> Programming References/Sample Source <<< """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" File #3552: HI.PROGINFO.BXY (GS) Uploaded on 9/15/93 by SEVENHILLS About 60K (d/l time approx. 6 minutes @ 2400 baud) Programming information for the Hierarchic INIT, which provides the ability for the IIGS to do hierarchic "sub-menus". Reference guide, sample source and licensing information is included. File #3543: T2.BALL.SRC.BXY (GS) Uploaded on 9/6/93 by DYA About 43K (d/l time approx. 4 minutes @ 2400 baud) Sample source code (Orca/C and Rez required) for Ball, a complete and working Twilight II module. Ball demonstrates how to write a working module for DigiSoft Innovations' Twilight II screen saver. Ball includes customizable setup along with sound effects, all in ORCA/C. File #3542: T2.G2MF.JUN.BXY (GS) Uploaded on 9/16/93 by DYA About 30K (d/l time approx. 3 minutes @ 2400 baud) This is the June 14, 1993 revision of the Twilight II Generation 2 Module Format (G2MF) reference. This is the latest version and supersedes previous editions.. Contains full and complete documentation on the format of T2 modules. A must have for anyone writing or interested in writing modules for DigiSoft Innovations' Twilight II screen saver File #3519: ANSMUSSPECS.BXY (ALL) Uploaded on 9/1/93 by A2PRO.HELP About 6K (d/l time approx. 30 seconds @ 2400 baud) Documentation file telling how to write ANSI Music files on an IBM. Gives complete documentation for the ANSI Music format, in case anyone is thinking of writing an editor or interpreter. Further documentation is available in the GW-BASIC or BASICA manual. File #3516: LOGOCMNDS.BNY (GS) Uploaded on 8/31/93 by BYTEWORKS About 5K (d/l time approx. 30 seconds @ 2400 baud) This file lists all of the commands in 3D Logo 1.0 for the Apple IIGS. The commands are explained in detail in the reference manual that comes with 3D Logo. File #3512: CLASS2.BXY (ALL) Uploaded on 8/25/93 by D.BROWN109 About 25K (d/l time approx. 2 minutes 30 seconds @ 2400 baud) This text file contains a listing of commands for Class 2 FaxModems. It does _not_ contain specifications for the actual Fax image, though it contains a list of sources to consult for those specifications. File #3511: CLASS1.BXY (ALL) Uploaded on 8/25/93 by D.BROWN109 About 14K (d/l time approx. 1 minute 30 seconds @ 2400 baud) This text file contains a listing of commands for Class 1 FaxModems. It does _not_ contain specifications for the actual Fax image, though it contains a list of sources to consult for those specifications. File #3508: APPIICAT2.6.BXY (ALL) Uploaded on 8/25/93 by S.BEHRENS About 31K (d/l time approx. 3 minutes @ 2400 baud) This is a catalog of programming languages available for the Apple // series, both 8-bit and 16-bit, old and new. >>> A2Pro Special Files <<< """"""""""""""""""""""""""" File #3544: LIBDB.29AUG.BXY (ALL) Uploaded on 9/7/93 by A2PRO.TODDPW About 75K (d/l time approx. 7 minutes 30 seconds @ 2400 baud) This is an AppleWorks 3.0 database file of the A2Pro libraries, created by GECONV 3.2 from a listing of the libraries as of 29-Aug-93. It has been sorted by ascending file number and then by ascending category. Packed with GSHK and Binary II. >>> RTC Transcripts <<< """"""""""""""""""""""" File #3541: RTC.GNOME2.TXT (GS) Uploaded on 9/6/93 by N.TROST About 25K (d/l time approx. 2 minutes 30 seconds @ 2400 baud) This is the official A2Pro RTC Transcript from the GNO/ME 2.0 RTC held with Jawaid Bazyar of Procyon, Inc. Jawaid talked about and answered questions concerning the new GNO/ME 2.0 UNIX implementation for the Apple IIgs. This is a text file that can be downloaded or isted. File #3540: RTC.GNOME2.BXY (GS) Uploaded on 9/6/93 by N.TROST About 12K (d/l time approx. 1 minute @ 2400 baud) This is the official A2Pro RTC Transcript from the GNO/ME 2.0 RTC held with Jawaid Bazyar of Procyon, Inc. Jawaid talked about and answered questions concerning the new GNO/ME 2.0 UNIX implementation for the Apple IIgs. This file is a NuFX archive compressed with ShrinkIt. >>> Misc. Files <<< """"""""""""""""""" File #3537: SOURCEMENU.SIT V1.2 (MPW IIGS) Uploaded on 9/6/93 by BRYAN.ZAK About 2K (d/l time approx. 20 seconds @ 2400 baud) This is a much enhanced version of the SourceMenu script that Apple ships with MPW. (I put my customized scripts in a folder named "MyScripts" and then have that in the command path.) SourceMenu builds a menu containing all the source files in the specified directory. Usage is "SourceMenu [directory]" (if no directory is specified the current directory is scanned). My version also puts a "SourceMenu..." item in the menu allowing you to easily rebuild the menu. File #3517: CHEM4DEMO.BXY (GS) Uploaded on 8/31/93 by BYTEWORKS About 46K (d/l time approx. 4 minutes 30 seconds @ 2400 baud) This movie was created with 3D Logo 1.0 for the Apple IIGS. You can play the movie with any Paintworks compatible movie player; there are several in A2. You can also play the movie with 3D Logo, of course! >>> System Software <<< """"""""""""""""""""""" File #3505: APPLE II SETUP.SIT (MAC) Uploaded on 8/19/93 by A2PRO.HELP About 475K (d/l time approx. 47 minutes 30 seconds @ 2400 baud) This disk is the AppleShare Apple II Setup disk for the AppleShare File Server product from Apple. When you install a server so that Apple II workstations can boot from it, the server installation software asks for this disk. You _must_ use this disk and not any older version to boot IIgs workstations into System Software 6.0.1. This disk has a MacBinary header. REQUIRES a MACINTOSH, DiskCopy and Stuffit Expander. >>> APPLE ASSEMBLY LINES QUICKINDEX <<< """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" 3520 V5N1 Oct.84 (44K) AAL.OCT.84.BXY 18-digit arithmetic part 6, a review of the 65802 and more! 3521 V5N2 Nov.84 (42K) AAL.NOV.84.BXY 18-digit arithmetic part 7, turning bit-masks into indexes and converting two-digit decimal strings to binary, and more! 3522 V5N3 Dec.84 (39K) AAL.DEC.84.BXY 18-digit arithmetic part 8, 65C02's in older IIs, strange way to divide by 7, sly hex conversion, tables for faster hi-res and much more! 3523 V5N4 Jan.85 (41K) AAL.JAN.85.BXY 18-digit arithmetic part 9, a symbol table source maker, and a short single-byte hex-to-decimal printer 3524 V5N5 Feb.85 (39K) AAL.FEB.85.BXY 18-digit arithmetic part 10, making DOS-less disks, building hi-res pre-shift tables, and more! 3525 V5N6 Mar.85 (44K) AAL.MAR.85.BXY A real 65816 disassembler, finding memory size from the ProDOS 8 global page, more on 65C02s in older IIs and more! 3526 V5N7 Apr.85 (43K) AAL.APR.85.BXY Shrinking code inside BASIC.System, fast text windows for Applesoft, and more! 3527 V5N8 May.85 (38K) AAL.MAY.85.BXY New catalog for DOS 3.3, 80-column window utility for IIe and IIc, adding date command to BASIC.System, and more! 3528 V5N9 JUN.85 (41K) AAL.JUN.85.BXY Boyer-Morris string search algorithm, integer square-roots, interrupt trace, and more! 3529 V5N10 JUL.85 (38K) AAL.JUL.85.BXY Reading DOS 3.3 disks with ProDOS, multi-level ProDOS catalog, BSAVE to new non-binary files in BASIC.System, and more! 3530 V5N11 Aug.85 (42K) AAL.AUG.84.BXY Making a print buffer on the IIc with a Z-RAM, generic conversion routines, wildcard file name search, and more! [EOA] [RTC]////////////////////////////// NIGHTS OF THE ROUNDTABLE / ///////////////////////////////// RTC Watch """"""""" By Nate Trost [N.TROST] >>> DoModalWindow from non-applications <<< """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Just using DoModalWindow() from an NDA... Don't set the updateAll flag! :) The system doesn't know what to set the current resource app to before trying to call the drawing procedures in those windows, so if the wrong one is set, the system will probably just crash. So, if I leave updateAll bit off no windows (except the frontmost) will get updated? Right. And that's what you have to do if you're not an application. >>> System Header Files <<< """"""""""""""""""""""""""" I dropped by to tell ya that I got minitext to compile. The MenuRec and toolRec records have an array in them respectively that was big enough. I had to edit menu.h and locator.h. I'm surprised C called that an error. Bayou: You shouldn't have to edit the system's header files. In fact, doing so is a bad idea for when you need to update interfaces. Matt, actually I just created a copy of them and replaced the <..> with ".." Still, Bayou, you shouldn't have to do it. What was the problem you were trying to solve? The program was trying to define a menu listing of 8 items. the header file's Struct def only declared 5 slots in the array....so I didn't change my Library header files, I just created new ones. Bayou! Aha! There's a built-in way to get around that. Look at the top of menu.h if you can see it now. In my version (the Apple version), the array is defined as of length "mbtMenuRefArrayLength", which is defined as 0x0005. (Did you see that when you were working with it?) That is what I changed. I changed the 5 to an f OK, but you don't have to! Look around it in the source. It's only #define'd as 0x0005 if there's no previous definition. (#ifndef mbtMenuRefArrayLength/#define mbtMenuRefArrayLength 0x0005/#endif) That means that if you've _previously_ defined that label as a different value before you #include , you'll get your value instead of the default one. So, just #define mbtMenuRefArrayLength 0x008 (or anything else you like) before you #include and you won't have to change the standard header files. Kind of slick, huh? Yea. That is what I like about C The same is true for theToolsLength in and mtItemRefArrayLength in . >>> BRL vs. JMP <<< """"""""""""""""""" Just wondering who preferred BRL over JMP and the other way around, specifically in regard to OMF files. With BRL the file is smaller, but with JMP the code is faster. Hmm, I just use BRL out of habit....most of the time. Sometimes I just use JMP for no particular reason. :-) Richard: because JMP has to be relocated, BRL doesn't.... I NEVER use JMP. EVER. I use BRL because I generally use the ORCA macros "JCS" "JNE" etc and that's what they use. <[RICHARD.B> I use whichever seems logical in relation to the code logic. Sometimes JMP just seems more logical. >>> Sound RAM and Music <<< """"""""""""""""""""""""""" I use SoundSmith and Noisetracker/SonicTRACKER.. etc.. I noticed that SoundSmith only allows 64k total for instruments...is this because SS only allows the Ensoniq sound RAM for instruments? Yes. Hmmm... How do the others do it? Switch from sound RAM and main memory? Yup... :) They quickly move data into the sound RAM while the instrument is playing. Whoa! Cool... and this does require lot's of processing time no? Eats a lot of processor time, which is why you don't see background MOD players. [EOA] [REF]////////////////////////////// REFLECTIONS / ///////////////////////////////// Thinking About Online Communications """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" By Phil Shapiro [P.SHAPIRO1] >>> MAKING USE OF "TELECOM AGENTS" <<< """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Online communication brings with it all sorts of benefits... but as the old saying goes, "Too much of a good thing can be a bad thing." When people start getting inundated with electronic mail they need to find ways to streamline their online time. Just last month I observed an amusing, creative solution to e-mail overload. A friend of mine has a son in the fifth grade who takes a strong interest in computers and telecommunications. For two or three years this young fellow has been pleading with his parents to get a 9600 baud modem for the family computer. Since this youngster typically spends fifteen to twenty hours each week online, he is weary of the low speed of his family's 2400 baud modem. Recognizing an opportunity to help themselves, the parents in this family agreed to buy a 9600 baud modem for the family, on condition that the fifth-grade son spend time each day helping his parents answer their own electronic mail from work. The youngster agreed to take on this new family chore and, true to his word, now spends ten to twenty minutes each day retrieving his parents' e-mail. He sets up his communications program so that his parents can sit down and quickly answer their e-mail after dinner each evening. While this story sounds more amusing than alarming, it does raise some thorny ethical issues. Why is it that the parents of this family felt compelled to answer their work e-mail from home? Because hardly anyone has enough hours in the day to do productive work and still find time to answer all the electronic mail that arrives at his or her desk during the day. The term "telecom agent" refers to a person who helps streamline one's online communication experience. In the case of my friend's family, the young child served as a "low-level" telecom agent. His duties were simply to retrieve e-mail, save the messages to a hard drive, and set up the communications program for easy answering of the e-mail. "High level" telecom agents take on the extra duty of saving incoming e-mail messages to a hard drive, and classifying incoming e-mail into categories and/or specific folders on the hard drive. High-level telecom agents can also take on the responsibility of answering some of the more routine e-mail messages that arrive at a person's desk. In that way, busy business professionals can streamline their online communications. So the next time that you feel overwhelmed at how much e-mail is arriving at your desk, perhaps it's time to start looking around for a fifth-grader to come to your aid. In the months ahead it may not be unusual for kids to have this new chore added to their list of family chores. The familiar refrain of parents around the country could plausibly evolve to something along the lines of: "Okay, Chelsea, I want you to: 1) Clean your room, 2) Take out the trash, 3) Retrieve mom and dad's electronic mail. And don't forget to feed the cat." -Phil Shapiro [*][*][*] The author takes a keen interest in the social dimensions of communications technology. He can be reached on GEnie at P.SHAPIRO1; on Internet at: p.shapiro1.genie.geis.com; on America Online at: pshapiro ////////////////////////////////////// GEnie_QWIK_QUOTE //// / "Not only did I find a new toy, but I'm trying real hard / / not to do as much programming at home. In other words, / / I'm trying to get a life. :)" / ////////////////////////////////////////////// PUNKWARE //// [EOA] [LOG]////////////////////////////// LOG OFF / ///////////////////////////////// GEnieLamp Information """"""""""""""""""""" o COMMENTS: Contacting GEnieLamp o GEnieLamp STAFF: Who Are We? GEnieLamp Information GEnieLamp is published on the 1st of every month """"""""""""""""""""" on GEnie on page 515. You can also find GEnieLamp on the main menus in the DigiPub (1395), ST (475), Macintosh (605), IBM (615), Apple II (645), A2Pro (530), Unix (160), MacPRO (480), Geoworks (1050), BBS (610), CE Software (1005) and the Mini/Mainframe RoundTables. GEnieLamp is also distributed on CrossNet, Internet, America Online, Delphi, Spectrum Online Systems and many public and commercial BBS systems worldwide. o On Internet our address is: genielamp@genie.geis.com o Internet FTP address is: sosi.com. All versions of GEnieLamp are available in the ~/pub/GEnieLamp directory. o GEnieLamp pays for articles submitted and published with online GEnie credit time. Upload submissions in ASCII format to library #42 in the DigiPub RoundTable on page 1395 (M1395;3) or Email it to our Internet or GE Mail address listed below. o We welcome and respond to all GE Mail. To leave comments, suggestions or just to say hi, you can contact us in the DigiPub RoundTable (M1395) or send GE Mail to John Peters at [GENIELAMP] on page 200. o Talk to us live 9:00 p.m. [EDT] every Wednesday night in the Digi*Pub Real-Time Conference. o Back issues of GEnieLamp are available in the DigiPub RoundTable Library #2 on page 1395. >>> GEnieLamp STAFF <<< """"""""""""""""""""""" GEnieLamp o John Peters [GENIELAMP] Senior Editor/Publisher """"""""" ATARI ST o John Gniewkowski [GENIELAMP.ST] Editor """""""" o Mel Motogawa [M.MOTOGAWA] ST Staff Writer o Sheldon Winick [S.WINICK] ST Staff Writer o Richard Brown [R.BROWN30] ST Staff Writer o John Hoffman [JLHOFFMAN] ST Staff Writer o Al Fasoldt [A.FASOLDT] ST Staff Writer ATARI ST/TX2 o Cliff Allen [C.ALLEN17] Editor/TX2 """""""""""" ATARI [PR] o Bruce Faulkner [R.FAULKNER4] Editor/GEnieLamp [PR] """""""""" IBM o Robert M. Connors [DR.BOB] Editor """ o David C. Leithauser [D.LEITHAUSER] HyperRead Editor o Brad Biondo [B.BIONDO] IBM Staff Writer o Tippy Martinez [TIPPY.ONE] IBM Staff Writer o David Holmes [D.HOLMES14] IBM Staff Writer MACINTOSH o Richard Vega [R.VEGA] Editor """"""""" o Tom Trinko [T.TRINKO] Mac Staff Writer o Bret Fledderjohn [FLEDDERJOHN] Mac Staff Writer APPLE II o Doug Cuff [EDITOR.A2] Editor """""""" o Phil Shapiro [P.SHAPIRO1] A2 Co-Editor o Mel Fowler [MELSOFT] A2 Staff Writer o Darrel Raines [D.RAINES] A2 Staff Writer o Gina E. Saikin [G.SAIKIN] A2 Staff Writer o Steve Weyhrich [S.WEYHRICH] A2 Staff Writer A2Pro o Jim B. Couch [GELAMP.A2PRO] Editor """"" o Nate C. Trost [N.TROST] A2Pro Staff Writer ETC. o Jim Lubin [J.LUBIN] Add Aladdin """" o Scott Garrigus [S.GARRIGUS] Search-ME! o Mike White [MWHITE] (oo) / DigiPub SysOp \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\//////////////////////////////////// Bulletin board messages are included in this publication with permission from GEnie and the source RoundTable. GEnie, GEnieLamp Online Magazines, and T/TalkNet Online Publishing do not guarantee the accuracy or suitability of any information included herein. Opinions expressed are those of the individual, and do not represent opinions of GEnie, GEnielamp Online Magazines, or T/TalkNet Online Publishing. Material published in this edition may be reprinted under the follow- ing terms only. Reprint permission granted, unless otherwise noted, to registered computer user groups and not for profit publications. All articles must remain unedited and include the issue number and author at the top of each article reprinted. Opinions present herein are those of the individual authors and does not necessarily reflect those of the publisher or staff of GEnieLamp. We reserve the right to edit all letters and copy. Please include the following at the end of of all reprints: \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\//////////////////////////////////// (c) Copyright 1993 T/TalkNET Online Publishing and GEnie. To join GEnie, set your modem to 2400 baud (or less) and half duplex (local echo). Have the modem dial 1-800-638-8369. When you get a CONNECT message, type HHH. At the U#= prompt, type: XTX99014,DIGIPUB and hit the [return] key. The system will then ask you for your information. Call (voice) 1-800-638-9636 for more information. \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\//////////////////////////////////// [EOF]