=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- APPLE II GRAPHICS & SOUND FORUM CONFERENCE LOG March 23, 1994, 10 PM EST Topic: Music Composer Chat, Part II Forum Leader: Gayle Keresey (AFL Gayle), Forum Assistant: Gene Koh (AFA Gene) Forum Consultants:Joyce Madden (AFC Joyce), Greg Dib (ELECTMUSIC), Ed Rosenblatt (AFC Eddie), Lindsay Hough (LindsayGS) Copyright (c) 1994 America Online All Rights Reserved =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- AFC JoyceM Clay, will you be updating MC to take into effect some of our suggestions of earlier this month? Clayburn Yes I will AFC JoyceM Good...when - not that I am pushing, but..... Clayburn I am working on some things now. BCS Frank What Joyce means is, "At what hour....?" AFC JoyceM :) Clayburn When will the transcripts from these chats be available so I can know what everyone wanted AFC Eddie The transcript of the last one is almost done. I thought I'd wait until both chats were held to release them together. AFC JoyceM Sure is nice to know that there are still GS enthusuasts out there... AFC Eddie But I can send it to you directly by E-mail if you like! Clayburn Yes I would like that AFC Eddie Then I'll get it to you by tomorrow! AFC JoyceM To change the subject one more time... AFC JoyceM I just read in one of my PC magazines that there is now a scanner + program that will read sheet music and make it a WAV file for use withMIDI or whatever...IBM only. AFC Eddie Yes, that's MIDIScan, I believe, Joyce. AFC JoyceM Yes, Eddie...Expensive too.... AFC Eddie Allegedly to become available for Mac soon. Clayburn If it makes a wave file, it wouldn't seem to be to much trouble to convert that file to GS format. AFC JoyceM Clay, what changes or additions will you make in MC? AFC Eddie Really? I bet a conversion application would be popular! Of course, once it's a MIDI file, any machine should be able to use it. ELECTMUSIC I'd would like to bring up the SysEx connection with MC AFC JoyceM Go for it, Greg...SysEX - important ELECTMUSIC I have alot of questions/comments Clayburn Go head greg ELECTMUSIC Quick review here... ELECTMUSIC SysEx is the ability to tranfer specific info from an individual midi instrument to another midi instrument of the same, or to a computer for storage and/or modification. ELECTMUSIC Good NEWS!: MComposer will now do that (accept, tranfer and store sysex). Clay... how large a sysex message willl MCompser accept? Clayburn It should except 64k. ELECTMUSIC nothing larger ? Clayburn Is there a need for something larger? Give some examples. ELECTMUSIC Ok... all Midi instruments that rely on sampled sounds will need to be larger. Eddie... any other messages? AFC Eddie Well, different devices use different size messages. For example, my Roland D-20 sends a small (under 32k) message for its sound banks, another for its percussion bank, and another for its sequencer data. But it also has an "All" option, where all three types of data are sent in one package, which is larger than 64k. Other devices must have similar capabilities. Clayburn Greg would a user know that a large package was comming so they could prepare for it. Or would it just come and the computer would have to be all ready for it? ELECTMUSIC From what I remember the original Midi tool ( I think Tool 32) had the 64k limit. But, I wasn't aware of a similiar limitation on tool 35 , AFC Eddie I don't think there's any way for a user to know in advance, how large a packet his/her device transmits. ELECTMUSIC Clay, in general most would not know how large a file is Clayburn The limit in MComposer is how big a buffer I want just sitting there waiting for something to fill it ELECTMUSIC Thats good...so you CAN increase the size of that buffer AFC Eddie How about making it adjustable? If a message that's too large comes in, MC gives the user a message telling him/her to increase the Sysex buffer? Clayburn Would most devices send a message telling how big the message is going to be or do you just never know? ELECTMUSIC No, I don't think so AFC Eddie It's possible that somewhere in the header of the sysex message there's some data about its size, but I'm not sure. I bet Lindsay would know the answer to that question! ELECTMUSIC Or maybe its part of the Midi Spec AFC Eddie Yes, for the particular device it might be, Greg, but can you count on users to look that up before using MC? ELECTMUSIC I would guess, however, that the data is in mulitples of 64k. It seems that number always turns up. That whole thing of bits and bytes. Clayburn What I could do is grab all the memory I could during a record session, and use that as a buffer for sysex messages. When the recording is done whats left of the unused buffer could be gotten rid of. AFC JoyceM But if the file is larger than 64k, the user would only know then that he can't use that file? ELECTMUSIC I like that idea, Clay. Have you actually used a sysex message in MC? Clayburn MC itself doesn't use sysex messages. Neither does the MIDI Synth tool. ELECTMUSIC How does it work (That was another question I was going to ask)? Clayburn I'm confused as what you mean by 'it'. ELECTMUSIC Well ... how do you handle the SysEx messages in MC, if the Midi Synth doesn't handle it? Clayburn This may be a bit long so be patient! ELECTMUSIC Go for it... AFC JoyceM we're patient Clayburn MIDI synth expects its 'seq items' to be 8 bytes long. But a sysex message can be any length long. At first a try rewritting some of MIDISynth's routine to jump around a longer seq item, but that didn't work well. So what I did was create a sysex seq item that was 8 bytes long and and number 1 data byte was a index 0 - 63 to a table containing the handle to the real sysex message. So that whenever that sysex message was used the program looked up the handle and used the real sysex message. Thats it! ELECTMUSIC Well that seems pretty easy to understand AFC JoyceM Even I understood :) ELECTMUSIC I am sure it must have been alot harder to code Clayburn Version 2.20 of MC will not handle earlier version that contain sysex messages. Actually when I thought to do it that way it was easier. No, rewriting some of MIDI Synth to tool code. ELECTMUSIC The only problem I ran into with SysEx is that when I attempted to do a "new" sysEx, MC did not record the new message. It was necessary to reboot MC to record the new sysEx message. Clayburn Do you mean reboot the computer or just restart MC? ELECTMUSIC No just restart MC ELECTMUSIC Then it accepted the new message. But, if I wanted another new message, I would have reboot MC. Clayburn Do you know for a fact that the sysex message sent ended in byte $F7? ELECTMUSIC Hmmm... don't know. I do know that I got a "completed" message on my keyboard. Clayburn If not I could just check for a high bit set to end receiving sysex messages ELECTMUSIC Eddie, I don't know if your experiences with Mac sequencing software has allowed a sysEx message and a midi data message to be recorded in the SAME file. AFC Eddie I'm not sure it's the same file, or at least it's not part of a MIDI file.I may be able, for instance, to record a SysEx message as part of a Mac Mastertracks file. Clayburn In testing I haven't had any problem with receiving one massage after another ELECTMUSIC I couldn't do that, Clay. It would receive the first message, but the second one wouldn't be received. Actually, I think MC has the potential to do unbelievable things with MIDI data. I am just not sure of what is possible Clayburn Greg would the program lockup after receiving the sysex message or would it continue to work except for not receiving anymore sysex messages? ELECTMUSIC No lock up, I would just quit the program and reboot it. I didn't try recording midi data. Even the SysEx icon didn't show up. Clayburn Greg could you try recording MIDI data and see what happens? ELECTMUSIC Sure... Clayburn I think weve been on sysex messages for quite a while. Does anyone else have another question on MC? ELECTMUSIC Clay... how did you set up for sysEx... ie, keyboard start or record start Clayburn I don't fully understand your question. ELECTMUSIC Well, you can have the sequencer start by hitting the record button...or get the start from the key? Clayburn In the MIDI setup section there is a control to do Key start. But you must have already started by pressing the record button on MC. ELECTMUSIC Thats the way I do it, Clay .BTW... I think MC has ALOT of commercial potential. Quality Computer would be interested, I believe. But the end of the sysex message doesn't stop the recording. Clayburn No it doesn't. AFC Eddie Clay, thank you so much for being our guest at these last two chats! The logs from both will soon be posted here in the AGS library! ELECTMUSIC I'll try out the Midi data record after the SysEx message BCS Frank Suspect that'll be a popular download too. :) AFC Eddie Yes, Frank! AFC Eddie Good night, everyone! ELECTMUSIC Nite Eddie Clayburn Good nite Eddie AFC Eddie ------------------------------- LOG OFF -----------------------