2/21/94 6:26:44 PM Opening ÒChat Log 2/21/94Ó for recording. Tang IIGS : Hi AFL Don : Welcome to the Apple Hardware Forum chat... Tang IIGS : What's the topic tonight? AFL Don : Component-level repair techniques... Tang IIGS : ah good right up my alley AFL Don : :) Tang IIGS : just don't step on any of the cats :) AFL Don : First time with us? I don't recognize the screen name... Tang IIGS : what would you like to discuss first? Tang IIGS : oh no, I'm on all the time, have been for a few years AFL Don : Up to you... There should be a bigger crowd soon... Tang IIGS : I'm usually on late at night though AFL Don : I don't remember seeing you in the Apple Hardware Forum chat, was what I meant... Tang IIGS : How about Hard drives AFA Fixit : Hi folks Tang IIGS : I have an interesting setup that some might find interesting AFL Don : Hello, Walt... AFL Don : Tell us about it, Tang... What are you doing with hard drives that's different? Tang IIGS : Hi Tang IIGS : well I have an Apple hs, and hooked to that is a chain of seven drives Tang IIGS : it is all on one SCSI cable AFL Don : Wow, that must be a record... Call Guinness! Tang IIGS : they are not in a box, I used two Apple II + Power supplies and AFL Don : Any problems with the arrangement? Tang IIGS : wired in extra power connectors to each, and then used plumbers tape to hold them all together AFL Don : Sounds like the National Endowment For The Arts might want to exhibit it! Tang IIGS : its not pretty but it works and 20 and 40 Meg HD's are easy to find cheap AFL Don : Now that's astonishing, Tang Tang IIGS : Not one so far, I have even tried them all with the terminators on and it still works Now I have all kind of comments about the termination from the InterNET about why I can't use term on each one, but I haven't run into any of them Bcawz : Can someone give me some specs on the Apple 11-friend has chance to buy one cheap AFL Don : What do you want to know, Bcawz? Bcawz : Specifically ram capability etc AFL Don : There are several ways to bump the Apple-//e's ram up to 1-Mbyte... Which is plenty... AFL Don : Can't argue with what works... Actually, drive- supplied term power must be diode-blocked on all but one of the drives. Tang IIGS : all I did for the cable was buy 7 IDC 50 pin connectors and press them on the cable about 2 inches apart I have also tried it without the resistor packs and it still works as long as the last drive is terminated I'm using a 3-foot extension cable from the computer to the Ribbon Bcawz : AFL- as I have Performa I don't know much about Apple 11- when did it come out? AFA Fixit : Depends on the model, Bcawz. Tang IIGS : Apple II first release back in 1978 I believe AFL Don : Early '80s, Bcawz, but it's still a viable computer. You'd be amazed to see what they'll do. Tang IIGS : could have been 1979 though AFL Don : Apple 2+ is too old to consider seriously, though, I think. Bcawz : Would 150. be a good price--pardon my ignorance on this?? Tang IIGS : true too true, need at least a IIe Tang IIGS : for a IIe yes AFA Fixit : 14" of SCSI cable, that would explain why you can get away with all the rule breaking, Tang. AFL Don : That might be a little high... Depends on whether it's enhanced, what other goodies are included. Tang IIGS : Mr Fixit: that must be what it is, but as long as it works I'm happy AFL Don : Check keyword CLASSIFIEDS to see if there are other ads with current, realistic prices. The problem is, he can get a 2GS now for not much more... Much more capability... Bcawz : If a modem is in the mix?? AFA Fixit : With that short of a SCSI chain with most of it ribbon, you can get away with a lot in the area of AFA Fixit : termination. AFL Don : You can buy a serviceable 2400-baud modem new for less than $100... AFA Fixit : Probably for less than $50. Bcawz : Last question--Apple 11 is different or same as Apple 11 +?? AFL Don : There was no Apple 11... AFL Don : Apple //e or Apple 2C or Apple 2C+ or Apple 2GS Tang IIGS : I sell New 2400 baud modems for 25.00 Bcawz : Apple 11 is older?? Tang IIGS : It's a weird modem, but works fine. I have to build cables for the connection though Bcawz : Question answered ---thanks all -- still seems a good deal to start! Tang IIGS : take care AFA Fixit : There has been the Apple, Apple ][, Apple ][+, Apple //e, Two versions of Enhanced Apple //e, //c AFL Don : Tell him to bargain... Tang IIGS : VERY true Bcawz : Will do!! AFL Don : Tell us how it comes out, please! AFA Fixit : I've got a PDP 11. ;) Tang IIGS : I've been seriously thinking about getting an IBM 250 watt power supply for my GS and the another one for the drives AFL Don : Right, Walt! We used to have one of those as the campus computer at CSM... Tang IIGS : GS and the another one for the Drives AFL Don : Nothing like overkill, Tang! AFA Fixit : Actually, it's an LSI-11/73, but that's being technical. Bought it at the Foothill Flea Market for $100. AFL Don : ...one disadvantage... You'll lose the inherent short-circuit protection you now have with the reasonably-sized supplies. A short could wipe you out before you know what's happening... Tang IIGS : Well I need the extra power for the 7 drives and my GS has just about every Tang IIGS : slot filled including 8 Meg Ram Tang IIGS : I think the gs flakes out sometimes because of lack of power AFA Fixit : Well, a 250 Watt supply would be overkill. AFL Don : That's possible, but the heavy-duty supplies will take care of any reasonable load... Tang IIGS : how about a 200 watt? AFA Fixit : You could run the IIgs and the drives off of one of those. AFL Don : Hi ya Fred... Wings flying again? Tang IIGS : That is a possibility Fred SoCal : Hi Don, Walt, Tang AFC Softy : Hmmmmmm.... AFA Fixit : Hi Fred Fred SoCal : No, still the same - tried shift-boot, & re installing 6.01 - same :( DanB498604 : Any of you want to by a Apple IIGS? Tang IIGS : I found someone here in So Cal that can get roms for Sider 10 Meg drives that DanB498604 : CHEAP! DanB498604 : Almost free! AFL Don : Did you read my post in the Vitesse area? Had same problem, solved same... AFA Fixit : The drives would be handled nicely by a 200 Watt supply. Tang IIGS : gets rid of the other partitions and allows you to have just Prodos AFA Fixit : A fully loaded IIgs would keep a 135 Watt supply happy. Tang IIGS : how much Dan Fred SoCal : yes, but haven't had time to try the trash Wings.data and reprogram yet. Tang IIGS : I can get cheap power supplies from AllTech in Oceanside AFC Softy : afk.... brb. :) AFL Don : No need to trash, just pick the install option that doesn't keep old screen data... DanB498604 : What is it worth to you? Tang IIGS : they have a back wall FULL of Power supplies for 5-10 bucks Fred SoCal : Tang, what wattage from Alltech? AFL Don : No Sider here, Dan, not for years and years. AFA Fixit : If you are looking at generic PC supplies, I wouldn't go to AllTech. Tang IIGS : Dan: 100 bucks? AFA Fixit : I don't mind surplus power supplies, but I'm not excited about used supplies. TallStuff : Hello all :) Tang IIGS : Fred: they have ALL kinds, Catch : you have to test them, they come as is DanB498604 : Dream on! No thanks... I will use it for a boat anchor first! Fred SoCal : Don, right, but does effectively trash the old wings.data. Tang IIGS : hahahhaha Ok good Dan :) just thought I'd ask AFL Don : Worked for me, Fred... Tang IIGS : Dan: what comes with it? AFL Don : Wings flies like a bird for me, now... AFA Fixit : {{{{Kate}}}} AFL Don : Hello, Kate! Fred SoCal : Don, only thing that doesn't work is the warm boot on any slot. Tang IIGS : Fred: I'll e-mail you my Phone # you can call me, and I'll see what I can do for you. we live pretty close to each other DanB498604 : Monitor, keyboard, mouse, 3.5 drive & 5.25 drive, printer (ImageWriter II) Fred SoCal : Hi Kate :) TallStuff : {{{{Walt}}}} AFL Don : Ok, Fred, I never use that feature... Fred SoCal : Lowell said its a bug they can't locate. :( AFA Fixit : Suggest that you try advertising in the online classifieds. Keyword "classifieds" DanB498604 : TKS Fixit! Bye, Bye! Tang IIGS : good luck Fred SoCal : Got it, Tang, thanks. Tang IIGS : I'll see if I can find a 150 power supply then Tang IIGS : no prob Fred, call me later tonight AFA Fixit : $100 is a bit low for the setup he described. Tang IIGS : I know but he DID say cheap :) Fred SoCal : My GS's power supplies seem to be ok but I have several cards in each so.... Tang IIGS : I got my second GS fully loaded for 200 AFA Fixit : You should be able to find a 150 watt supply new for around $30. Fred SoCal : would like to get some bigger supplies than original issue. Tang IIGS : I have one power supply that's good but its 50 htz can I change it to 60? AFA Fixit : Do they have a scope and inductive load to test the supplies at AllTech? Tang IIGS : Fred yes AFL Don : Even at 150 W, it's going to be like swimming in the ocean, you're only going to use the top part... AFL Don : Hopefully... Tang IIGS : Fixit, I do believe so AFA Fixit : Most power supplies operate fine from 50-60hz. Tang IIGS : It takes both of my II+ power supplies right now to run them all AFL Don : 50 Hz usually does fine at 60-Hz, but not always the other way around... AFC Softy : bak! {{{{{Beckster!!}}}}} LTNS! :* Fred SoCal : 50 Hz is European, I recall. Tang IIGS : The 50 Hertz one works but it really buzzes AFL Don : Lotsa places in the world do 50 Hertz... Fred SoCal : err...European Tang IIGS : yup, but not here AFA Fixit : I suspect that it's more than the 50-Hz rating, but it's a good excuse to take it back. ;) TallStuff : {{{{{Spotster!!}}}}} It has been awhile! How be ya'?? Tang IIGS : it always seems the US has to do everything different from the rest of the worl Tang IIGS : It says 50 Hertz right on the transformer AFL Don : I used to live in an area in East L.A. County that was 50-Hz up to May 1948... Weird... ...had to have special clocks, phono turntables... When they switched, all that stuff had to be replaced... Tang IIGS : Bummer Tang IIGS : costly too AFA Fixit : As long as you don't have line-frequency dependent motors it's usually not a big deal. AFL Don : Actually, the power company replaced everything free of charge... AFC Marvin : Good evening to all! Tang IIGS : WOW Tang IIGS : hi AFA Fixit : Hi Marvin AFL Don : Some power transformers designed for 60 Hertz lack enough iron to work without overheating at 50 Hz. AFL Don : Hi Marvin! How was skiing? Tang IIGS : well the buzzing was such that I didn't trust it AFA Fixit : Used to have to replace a few drive pulleys for 60 Hz operation. AFC Marvin : Skiing was good but now I am tired as is usual after skiing. AFL Don : Problem was, the stuff the power company used for replacements was very-low quality. Tang IIGS : I goofed when I bought it, I didn't notice the 50 hertz Fred SoCal : Other problem was most power was 240V when I was there in 1960 AFA Fixit : Actually, a transformer rated at 50Hz should do fine at 60Hz. AFC Marvin : It was beautiful up in the snow today. Skiing was good and it was nice that I did not have to put AFC Marvin : chains on the car. Tang IIGS : geez I'm glad I wasn't around way back then :) AFL Don : A little buzz might not be a problem. 50 Hertz is harder to filter, might show up as a little hum if : filter caps are getting tired... Tang IIGS : Snowing there Marvin? AFA Fixit : Go up to Big Bear Marvin? Fred SoCal : Marv, I went up to Wrightwood yesterday before the roads were really clear... Tang IIGS : might be that, perhaps I'll let it run for a burn in time and see what it does Fred SoCal : and got by because I had a 4wd Aerostar :) no chains needed. Tang IIGS : I can see Big bear from here Tang IIGS : Well almost AFC Marvin : No Tang, no snow here at the house. It seldom snows here in the Los Angeles area. Tang IIGS : I see snow though :) AFA Fixit : I don't expect the buzzing to get better over time. Tang IIGS : hahahaha yes it does AFC Marvin : Fred, my wife and I were skiing at Waterman today. Tang IIGS : oh missed the seldom part :) AFC Marvin : It was only several weeks ago that we also were at Wrightwood for a good day of skiing. Tang IIGS : snowed last year in Ventura when I lived there AFL Don : Yeah, Tang, I was living in Montebello when it snowed in '49... Fred SoCal : At 54 years, I think its too late for me to learn how with the time and coin... AFC Marvin : Fred, that is a good reason to have a 4 wheel drive. Fred SoCal : I can afford :( AFC Marvin : Where are you Tang? AFA Fixit : Very seldom. I've never seen snow stick in San Diego in the one snowfall I've ever seen there. Tang IIGS : yup I don't think its a good Idea to take my motorcycle up there yet :) Fred SoCal : I've never been stuck in sand or snow but it is NOT an off-road vehicle. Tang IIGS : seems like there's a lot of us here in So Cal Tang IIGS : Any of you on the InterNet? AFA Fixit : I'm actually in Delaware these days. AFL Don : I'm in northern California, Tang, but used to live in Emphysema City Tang IIGS : I live in Apple Valley Fred SoCal : I haven't bothered to learn how to use Internet yet, no incentive. AFA Fixit : I played on the Internet at work today. ;) AFL Don : Only InterNet E-mail now, Tang, but I will have an account through my college soon... Tang IIGS : Oh you should The NET is GREAT AFC Marvin : My only experience with Internet has been exchanging Email via AOL/Internet. Tang IIGS : I just started using it and cant get of it, a lot cheaper than calling here AFA Fixit : Have FTP access at work, Email here. Fred SoCal : Forgot to ask earlier, about what is the wattage of the stock GS power supply? Tang IIGS : you have Direct Access to most of the programmers who write the programs Tang IIGS : 60 watts Tang IIGS : you usually get an answer the same day Tang IIGS : to just about any kind of question Fred SoCal : Thanks, Tang. Tang IIGS : no prob Fred Tang IIGS : I recently had to bypass the Micro fuse on one of my HD's with a piece of Tang IIGS : 30 AWG wire as the fuse blew AFA Fixit : Should try and dig up a 1 Amp Picofuse. Tang IIGS : don't know why but that should be about the same rating I understand Fred SoCal : A little dangerous, eh what? AFL Don : Definitely, don't second guess fusing!!! Tang IIGS : Nope don't want to do that being its my 120 drive AFL Don : Pennies in the fuse box work great until the house burns downs... Tang IIGS : I'm in what they call the High Desert, we get snow here every now and then AFA Fixit : Drove through Apple Valley on the way to Desert Hot Springs late one night. Don't remember much of it. Tang IIGS : you must have blinked AFL Don : That's where they have one sign, "You're Entering, Leaving, and Passing Through Apple Valley" Tang IIGS : Granted I would like to get a HD power supply for a GS but at 80 bucks, why AFA Fixit : Not as bad as Rice, CA. That's a gas station and a bar. Tang IIGS : you have that much? :) Tang IIGS : have a beer or two after another crash on the computer to calm down :) AFA Fixit : It's on 395, don't even need to blink to miss it. Fred SoCal : There are a whole heard of towns? like that along US 93 in Nevada, I came back Fred SoCal : from Provo that way last spring. Tang IIGS : hahahahaha 395 is a LONGGGGGG road of nothingness Tang IIGS : went from So Cal all the way to Reno on it once AFL Don : U.S. 395 in upper Oregon is so primitive, there's a dog that sleeps in middle of the road, gets up to AFL Don : let cars pass... No fooling' Tang IIGS : hahhahahaha lol Tang IIGS : I believe it, My mom lives in Oregon Fred SoCal : I like 395, lots of volcanic structures and even a "fossil" waterfall just off Tang IIGS : to say the least, she wants to move Fred SoCal : the road. AFA Fixit : I can believe it. Gave up on 395 short of Oregon. TallStuff : *Thump Thud Crash Bang* I'm back ;) AFC Marvin : Walt, I failed to mention that I have been to Big Bear many times. I also attended the 5th grade while living in Big Bear many years ago. Tang IIGS : anyone know of any job openings here in So Cal? I'm looking Fred SoCal : The dry falls are just north of Little Lake. AFA Fixit : Thought I'd be clever one trip up to Spokane. Bad idea. AFL Don : I used to travel 395 to Spokane several times a year... Fun road if you like potholes... AFA Fixit : McDonalds is hiring. AFA Fixit : ;) Tang IIGS : NOT :) Tang IIGS : prefer computer related field and not the Computerized cash register :) TallStuff : Good answer Tang :) AFA Fixit : No fun in the middle of winter, Don. Tang IIGS : BBBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR I hate cold AFL Don : Yeah, right... Neither is I5, I've found out recently... AFA Fixit : But they pay better than a Computerland dealership. Tang IIGS : yup AFA Fixit : The two overlay quite a bit. Tang IIGS : Oh there are some Computerlands left? AgentTwo : Wow, you people still have running Apple II's? AFA Fixit : Two of them in Delaware. Fred SoCal : Where abouts on 15, Don? AFA Fixit : More than one AgentTwo. Tang IIGS : better than a MAC :) mine is faster than My SE AFL Don : Lots of Apple 2s still running, Two! Tang IIGS : WAY faster TallStuff : Two what dear?? Computerlands or Two //GS's?? ::Ducking:: AFL Don : The 2GS with and accelerator'll run rings around almost anything... AFA Fixit : Yes Tang IIGS : you have to get into the upper-end Macs to beat my GS AFL Don : Siskyous north, Fred... AgentTwo : Hmm. I lived on one 'til about '85... Still have a couple in the basement. Non-working... TallStuff : afk for a sec... gotta thwap Fixit ;) Tang IIGS : hahahahahaha TallStuff : bak Fred SoCal : Don't think I've been there that I remember, Don. Tang IIGS : AgentTwo: sell them for parts then Tang IIGS : I might buy them for there power supplies :) AgentTwo : I probably should. I imagine Apple no longer sells the old parts? AgentTwo : Tang - What part of the country are you from? Tang IIGS : ( maybe I'll just use more II power supplies instead of buying a new one) AFA Fixit : They still have parts for the original Apple ][ I'd expect. Tang IIGS : So Cal TallStuff : + AFL Don : Parts are still available from second sources... AFA Fixit : For two much of course. Tang IIGS : yup Tang IIGS : AgentTwo: what kind are they? II+ IIe? AgentTwo : I should dig them out... One of them is actually a Basis 108, remember those? Fred SoCal : I have a IIe unenhanced I haven't got to work yet :( no time, expertise or coin AgentTwo : The other is a ][+ AFL Don : Hello, CHIP, Steve! Welcome to the Apple Hardware Forum Chat... Fred SoCal : coin. SteveB : 'Evening, everyone. Tang IIGS : Hi SteveB : <-- Former AFC SteveB Fred SoCal : Hi Steve, chip Fred SoCal : oops Steve, Chip. :) AFL Don : Good to see ya again, Steve SteveB : Good to see you too, Don :) AgentTwo : I think the ][+ still has an 80 column card, and a Videx keyboard enhancer. AFL Don : Hi Whaler... Welcome to the Apple Hardware Forum Chat! Tang IIGS : I stole the power supplies outta both of my II+'s WhalerJake : Hello all calling from Reno,NV Tang IIGS : for my hard drive setup AFL Don : Basis... Yes, I remember... German, wasn't it? Fred SoCal : Hi Whaler :) AFC Marvin : AgentTwo, which radio network do you work for? Tang IIGS : I used to live in Reno Tang IIGS : AgentTwo: ok AgentTwo : Yea. German. The case would've survived a nuclear blast. AgentTwo : AFL Don - Shadow Broadcast Services out of Chicago. AFL Don : Very interesting, Two! Tang IIGS : Spreken Ducte (sp?) Tang IIGS : I don't :) AgentTwo : Ja. Nur ein bischen. SteveB : brb Tang IIGS : actually speak it better than spell it AFC Marvin : Agent Two, I am in broadcasting also- chief engineer for KFI-KOST. AFL Don : Pronounced Bah'siss, I remember... Not Bay'sis as we'd guess... AFL Don : Hello, Paul! Welcome to the Apple Hardware Forum Chat... PaulBZ : HELLO ALL Fred SoCal : Hi Paul :) PaulBZ : What has been the topic of the night? AFL Don : First time with us, Paul? Tang IIGS : Hi welcome to the Fastest Computers in the world :) Ok maybe not the fastest Tang IIGS : But good enough for me :) AFL Don : SCSI, Power Supplies, Wings, Catchall... Anything on your mind? AFC Marvin : Meine frau war in Ober Oesterreich geborren so Ich habe in bischen Deutsch gelernt. PaulBZ : I've been looking at various conf during the week and trying to see if some ofy AFL Don : Official topic is component-Level repair, but nobody seems to have components to replace tonight.. PaulBZ : problems can be cleared up as well as trying to help others. Tang IIGS : god its been along time since ive seen any German :) ( was in Germany for a Tang IIGS : time Tang IIGS : um let me think, I'm sure I do but can't remember what AgentTwo : You learn German quickly when you buy a German-made computer... AFL Don : I'll bet... AFA Fixit : Had to call Bamberg for tech support? Tang IIGS : I know A Disk II, I replaced all the chips and it still wont work PaulBZ : Has anyone come across GS/OS System Error on start up or reboot? AFL Don : ...on the controller card? AFA Fixit : What symptoms? Tang IIGS : it is definitely the top board, as I replaced it with a known good one and Tang IIGS : it worked AFL Don : No, Paul... did you do a clean Install with the Installer? AFA Fixit : I think just about everyone that's used a GS for any length of time has seen that. AFA Fixit : There are still the analog components to get bad. PaulBZ : Yes the problem is strange. Most of the time the system works well but every AFL Don : Must be something other than one of the socketed chips, Tang... Tang IIGS : many times, all the time, way too often, but then I load way too many inits Tang IIGS : Don: It has to be that but I don't know where to start AFL Don : Do you have an accelerator card, Paul? How much load on the power supply? PaulBZ : once in a while I get the error and I can cure it by deleting CDEVs.data from PaulBZ : the CDEVs folder Tang IIGS : You should get system 6.0.1 AFL Don : Have you done a Deliverance (or ProSel) on the drive? PaulBZ : I have sys 6.0.1 AFA Fixit : Personally, I don't find it worth the bother when I have spare Franklin analog cards that I bought Tang IIGS : Don: the disk II? PaulBZ : I have done all of those AFL Don : You might have a bitmap error on your boot volume. AFA Fixit : bought for $5 each years ago. AFL Don : What do you have in the slots, Paul? Tang IIGS : I would like to fix the disk II as I sell them every now and then Tang IIGS : and this one is just collecting dust now PaulBZ : It seems related to having many inits and DA';s Tang IIGS : That can be a problem Paul I Know AFL Don : Try removing all inits and DAs, then adding half of your present load. If the trouble appears, you ha Tang IIGS : Try removing them one at a time until you find which one is causing the problem PaulBZ : SCSI in slot 7 5 Meg ram in ram slot and zip 9meg in 3 AFL Don : have a likely conflict with one of the DAs or INITS you've just loaded. If not, add more until the AFL Don : trouble comes back. Tang IIGS : Well I think we covered that Don :) AFL Don : Some of these addons are incompatible... Only experimentation can tell you which.. PaulBZ : I have tried removing them one at a time and things work put them back and it PaulBZ : works and then later it doesn't Tang IIGS : what system software are you using? AFA Fixit : 6.0.1, Don, aren't you reading? AFL Don : I didn't ask that, Walt... AFA Fixit : Oops, Tang. Sorry Don. :( AFA Fixit : ;) Tang IIGS : Oh sorry must have missed it PaulBZ : This is a ROM 3 machine Tang IIGS : hahahahahhaha AFA Fixit : Doesn't sound too loaded up on the current draw. Tang IIGS : that's ok I think were mirroring each others comments :) PaulBZ : I have asked the ques on internet(pbauer) and several people are having PaulBZ : the same problem Tang IIGS : (I really need to become an AFA or some such :0 AFL Don : I'm not having the problem, running 6.0.1... Tang IIGS : Paul, what is your NET address PaulBZ : pbauer@mit.edu Tang IIGS : I think I have seen your posts AFL Don : Usually, when someone has a problem like that, it turns out that a clean install gets rid of it... AFA Fixit : No problems at all with 6.0.1, but I probably run the leanest system on the planet. PaulBZ : I have approx 50 inits and DA's AFL Don : Try renaming the System Folder to Old System, then do a re-install... PaulBZ : I have done that Tang IIGS : ok got it, I'll E-mail you later AFL Don : Paul, that might be pushing the envelope. I've never heard of anyone running that many before... AFA Fixit : 50! Are you looking for trouble? Tang IIGS : I don't have a Rom 3, but that should make that much difference Tang IIGS : 50, Naw I have that many at least :) use up 5 Meg ram on start up :) Tang IIGS : and as to looking for it, I think he found it :) PaulBZ : I asked the question on the net "How many inits are too many ..." TallStuff : Well I'm off... AFA Fixit : I have one non Apple driver in my system. TallStuff : nytol AFL Don : Paul, next thing I'd suggest is an overnight run of MemoryTest.CL... Tang IIGS : Yes I remember that one, I don't think there is an answer really PaulBZ : and have seen people with similar problems but noone answered the question TallStuff : >LaTassle Poof< AFA Fixit : Night dear. Tang IIGS : bye AFL Don : Bye... ZZZZZZ Fred SoCal : Bye Kate :) PaulBZ : I ran MemoryTest.cl for about three hours and no errors AFA Fixit : When you start seeing the third row of inits scroll across the screen it's time to think if you really AFA Fixit : need them all. Tang IIGS : I have a friend with a ROM 3 and the same setup hardware wise, I'll need a list Tang IIGS : of exactly what Inits and Da's etc to do the testing though Tang IIGS : I have 4 rows across mine, its really neat :) PaulBZ : I'm going to make a list and I'll post on the net or send E-Mail PaulBZ : What is your net address Tang IIGS : sounds good AFA Fixit : When my Mac at work starts crashing, I start pulling the non-essentials. Tang IIGS : I think Tang@pro-newton.com, But I forget. I'll e-mail you as soon as I get Tang IIGS : off here PaulBZ : Okay Tang IIGS : Speaking of which I have to go, thanks for all the info folks Take care Fred SoCal : Bye Tang AFL Don : Thanks for dropping by, Tang... Hurry back, please! Tang IIGS : I'll try and catch you all later for more Info on the Disk II Tang IIGS : I will when I can :) this does get expensive though Tang IIGS : But I like to help :) AFL Don : :) Tang IIGS : see ya AFA Fixit : Could always use Tang IIgs@AOL.com Fred SoCal : Same here, need to split and give my full attention to grading :( AFL Don : I'm all caught up on my grading, Fred... Had a looooooong weekend, raining, plenty of grading time. Fred SoCal : bye all :) PaulBZ : I'm out also,thanks for the suggestions. AFL Don : Good luck, Paul! AFA Fixit : Goodnight guys AFL Don : So, G'Nite all, cu around... AFC Marvin : Good night Walt. AFC Marvin : Well, goodnight AFC Marvin : Goodnight Don, give Doris our re AFC Marvin : 73, GNI AFL Don : Right... AFL Don : 73... 2/21/94 8:27:31 PM Closing Log file.