6/6/94 6:27:39 PM Opening ÒChat Log 6/6/94Ó for recording. AFL Don : Hello, Serker! AFL Don : Welcome to the Apple Hardware Forum Chat! SERKER : Hey Don...what's the subject tonight? AFL Don : I don't remember the screen-name, first time with us? AFL Don : Topic is the SmartPort chain... SERKER : In the conference areas, yes...been a user for months now... AFL Don : Glad to have you with us... We usually have a crowd (well, a minicrowd) here, but for some reason or other it's a slow start tonight... SERKER : Adding too (new devices) or just figuring out what exists... SERKER : What's the current discussion about SmartPort stuff...new hardware or how it works... AFL Don : Whatever anyone wants to discuss. Or any other Apple-2 topics are ok, too... AFL Don : What computer do you use, Serker? SERKER : Well, since it's not heavy, I have a tech question...I've been working on incorporating a digital radio (FM) into a card for my IIGS, NDA controlled volume, station, etc. SERKER : The programming is a cinch, it's the card pins I'm having trouble with...where could I get a listing of what the slot arrangement is? AFL Don : The old Apple 2+ manuals have the pinout for the slots... AFL Don : Also, the Apple Hardware Reference published by Addison Wesley... AFA Fixit : The Apple IIGS Hardware Reference goes over the expansion slots in detail. AFL Don : Interesting project... SERKER : (hardware reference): There's no info in pseudo-slotting...should I be looking in software? AFL Don : Maybe ADV... SERKER : Don...just for the hell of it type of project...too much spare time on my hands...*laugh* AFL Don : Sometimes those are the most fun! AFA Fixit : I'd say that pseudo slotting is a software trick. AFL Don : ...for sure. SERKER : I worried that the configuration on the card would have to tailor to it. There are so many cards out SERKER : that pseudo-slot, that some breakthrough in programming must have been found (or rigged)...there's AFA Fixit : Interesting. It seems that pseudo slots are bad news on the GS. SERKER : just been a limited amount of information on it, and I don't have an easy way to disassemble some of SERKER : the freeware switchers (CDA's, etc) SERKER : ADV? SERKER : Fixit...why do you say bad news? Have had limited problems with those cards myself... AFL Don : Somebody in ADV will have the answer, if anyone does. That's the developers forum here in Apple-2 country... SERKER : IC, Don...not familiar with the slang yet... AFL Don : Take a while to catch on... AFL Don : Keyword ADV'll get you there... SERKER : Don...thought you were referring to APDA...with such limited support for A2 right now, the fee was too high... AFL Don : Might be something in the ADV library that hits on what you want to do.. AFL Don : Right, on APDA... SERKER : Thanx guys...one more question, trivia this time. AFL Don : Sock it to us.. SERKER : Concerns SmartPort, you'll love it... AFA Fixit : The section on Slot I/O cards indicates that multifunction cards won't work properly. SERKER : According to the A2 Training manual, SmartPort will support 4 devices, two 3.5" and two 5.25" SERKER : Everything I've read in Hardware support suggests that more than 4 devices can be loaded onto the chain AFL Don : That's right, and it'll also support a RamDisk or a RomDisk.. In which case, AFL Don : the last physical drive'll push into slot 2... SERKER : In fact, within the same Training manual (this is a dealer sales training manual), they show a picture SERKER : of two UniDisks, two Apple 3.5", and two 5.25" drives all chained together... SERKER : Logically, the overflow into slot 2 makes sense, but the power consumption on the power supply must AFL Don : There was a problem with the first Apple 3.5 drives where excess power loading caused problems... Fixed by a board upgrade.. Hi Larry! SERKER : be tremendous...nevertheless, if either of you know SmartPort well enough, is this a technically-valid configuration? AFL Don : Right... The UniDisks have to come after the Apple 3.5s... The 5.25 will appear in slot 6, the AFL Don : UniDisks will show in slot 2 AFL Don : with that arrangement, you can't have a RamDisk, though.. SERKER : So SmartPort can handle 6 devices? AFC Softy : Hi Don... Walt. :) AFC Softy : {{{{Becky}}}} :) TallStuff : {{{{{Softy}}}}}}} :) AFL Don : Yes, Serker... As a matter of fact, I use a 2GS in my office that I've configured that way just for AFL Don : grins... AFL Don : How's the PB 180, Larry? SERKER : Grins was the only reason I was interested...at meetings I usually show off a new 'unknown' feature SERKER : of the IIGS AFL Don : That one is hardly unknown, I suspect, but it's probably forgotten. AFL Don : by most users... Hardly anyone has that much of an investment in floppy drives... SERKER : Logically, it made sense, but SOS-Appl didn't have the answer when it came up at the meetings. AFL Don : SOS-APPL doesn't usually acknowledge that there ever was an Apple 2 SERKER : Laugh...Paul is the only one down there that knows you can load a HD larger than 20 Meg on an 2GS... SERKER : They tried to tell me all sorts of things that couldn't work...best one was the 4 Meg RAM limit *sigh* AFL Don : Some users who've tried the full load for the SmartPort forget to add the UniDisk driver to AFL Don : GS/OS, so it looks like it doesn't work. AFC Softy : Don... the 180 is neat. But the Mac needs a TaskMaster tool call something bad. ;) AFL Don : What 4-meg Ram limit? I'm running 6 megs on both 2GSs I use... SERKER : Still, pulling that much power over the motherboard out the SmartPort connector, that can't be good... AFL Don : Great, Larry.. SERKER : When I told them that 16-meg in an 8/8 configuration could be done, they told me I was wrong...I've AFL Don : One thing, Serker, only one drive will be starting at a time, no matter how many are being serviced. SERKER : been using two OctoRams on a RamKeeper for a year now...guess they forgot to tell this IIgs that... AFL Don : So the power-spike imposed by startup will not increase with more drives. AFA Fixit : Unless you hit the 3.5" disk bug that starts all your disks spinning at once. AFC Softy : Don... sometime I need to get all the info required to hook the PB up to my IIgs. :) AFC Softy : (once I get the monitor fixed. :/) AFL Don : Never had that happen to me, Walt... SERKER : Hmmm...isn't there a residual power drain to keep all four boards alive though? AFL Don : Right, but most of the chips are not very hungry, so it's not a terrific drain... SERKER : Subject change...you hit an old nerve!!1 (boy, the questions I have about AppleTalk). AFL Don : The load did cause trouble with the first Apple 3.5 drives, though, sometimes. AFA Fixit : Had that problem with my first generation drives. AFC Softy : Don... the 4MB RAM "limit" must be for DMA?? SERKER : I have my IIGS hooked up to my Quadra 610 through AppleTalk. Loaded all the hard drives on the mac AFL Don : Oh, yeah, that's right. But the RamFAST is able to work around that by using a clever strategy that Drew developed so that he could DMA into anything, almost. SERKER : Softy...the 4mb limit IS for DMA, but unless you're using a HS SCSI card, you wouldn't know... AFA Fixit : Once I had the daisy chain board replaced on the first drive in the chain, it went away. SERKER : (Softy) Jose at SOS didn't know Apple made a HS SCSI card... AFC Softy : SOS?? AFC Softy : oh.. Apple SOS... :) AFC Softy : Doesn't surprise me they wouldn't know. AFL Don : The hinge pins on the back door will break off, also the latch ring for the trackball will lose TallStuff : Well I'm off... see ya'll later SERKER : What is the speed of a LocalTalk connection..28.8 K? AFA Fixit : 256kbs SERKER : Through the IIGS's firmware LocalTalk? I'm not getting anywhere near that. AFC Softy : Oh.. I never told ya what I got with it... AFA Fixit : Usually don't. Operating system file transfers use wastefully small packet sizes. AFL Don : I hear you got a GV Mercury... AFA Fixit : There are a number of extensions to MacOS to improve network file transfer throughput. AFC Softy : It's a PB180 4/120... new. But I got it at the "refurbished" price. About 200 bucks less. SERKER : Fixit...the problem is on the GS side...the other Quadra is getting great speed. AFL Don : Hot dog! How'd ya swing that? AFL Don : Hello, Marvin! AFC Marvin : Hello everybody. SERKER : Question...is LocalTalk built into the firmware, and thus cannot be update like the mac? AFC Softy : Yep.. I got the Mercury. Turns out the catalog I looked at had and error. The Gold model only does AFC Softy : 9600 fax. AFA Fixit : The GS should be able to deal with at least 57kbps. AFC Softy : How'd I swing it? It was the last one they had. AFL Don : 14.4 Fax really flies, seemingly much faster than half again as fast as 9600.. AFC Marvin : The only time I have seen my Mercury do 14.4 was when I sent a fax to Global Village. AFL Don : OIC AFA Fixit : Can't believe that the Gold only supports 9600 bps fax. SERKER : Fixit...is LocalTalk build into the firmware, and thus cannot be updated like the mac? AFC Softy : Said so right on the box Walt. AFA Fixit : Of course I've not seen a fax machine that handles faster transfer rates. AFL Don : ...having problems with my Mercury not answering or completing FAX calls... AFC Softy : Mercury is 19.2K/14.4K. Gold is 14.4K/9600. AFL Don : You can't FAX at 19.2K, though... AFC Softy : No... AFC Softy : 14.4 is as fast as you can go. AFA Fixit : It appears that LocalTalk is not in firmware. AFC Softy : Anyway... they had one PB180C left there... but I didn't wanna pay the extra 400 bucks for it. SERKER : Fixit...ok..different angle...has apple just not updated it...(think I'm in the same references you ar SERKER : are in) AFA Fixit : No mention of it in the GS firmware reference AFC Softy : Wished I had now.... I can;t play SimCity 2000 on this one without an external monitor. :( AFC Marvin : A co-worker last week bought the new PB520C (I think I have that number correct) so I will get to AFC Softy : AFC Marvin : see it soon. I did not have time today to even take a look at it. SERKER : Here's the latest rumor then...the LocalTalk was built into the ROMs. If you could update the ROMs SERKER : better Mac access could be reached... AFC Softy : I played PGA Tour Golf II on one Marvin. the 520c is a sweet machine. Except it's passive matrix. SERKER : My problem is that I can't find the LocalTalk information in any of the Apple References. AFA Fixit : Looks like I didn't look hard enough. SERKER : Where!!!???? What did I miss??? AFC Marvin : Larry, I hope to have a chance to see his PB520c tomorrow so I can see what the screen looks like. AFC Softy : (oh.. one more thing Don... I got a PowerPlate 3X for it too. :) AFC Softy : Marvin... it's really not bad. AFL Don : That should help, Larry.. AFC Marvin : He tells me that the slider deal that replaces the trackball works quite well. AFC Softy : Like most passive matrix screens you have to look directly at it to see. AFC Softy : Yeah... the trackpad (or touchpad as some people call it) is nice. But you need to adjust it right. AFC Softy : I would lose track of the cursor on occasion. AFC Marvin : Now if I can only figure out why my hard drive on this PB170 wants to run all the time. I have an AFL Don : The trackpad should get rid of the nuisance of having to clean the trackball frequently... SERKER : Fixit!!!??? You there? (Lost in pages, I assume) AFC Marvin : extension that is causing the problem. I am in the process of removing extensions one at a time until AFC Marvin : I find the culprit. So far I have not found it. AFL Don : What happens when you do a shift boot, Marvin? AFC Marvin : Booting without extensions makes the hard drive work normal. AFL Don : That'll tell you for sure if it's an extension problem, if it does it without any extensions... AFL Don : There ya go, you've got some kind of conflict or corruption.... SERKER : AFC Marvin! What version of Disinfectant are you using...3.4.1 had that problem on PBs. AFA Fixit : Yep, looking for some reasonable references to Appletalk and the GS. AFC Marvin : All is ok with a shift boot so I figure it is an extension gone bad. I will keep pulling them out AFC Marvin : until I find it. AFC Marvin : My version of Disinfectant is 3.3 I believe. AFL Don : Hmmm... I was running 3.4.1 (Disinfectant) without any problems... AFA Fixit : You need to download Extensions Manager. AFL Don : The current version is 3.5 something.. AFA Fixit : 3.5 is the current version of Disinfectant. SERKER : AFC Marvin try updating to 3.7... AFL Don : Did you do the HSU? AFC Marvin : HSU? AFA Fixit : One thing I think is interesting is that you can buy a screen for an active matrix screen that forces SERKER : Whoops..3.5 is right...just checked the version...thanx DON... AFL Don : The Hardware System Update that's in MOS, fixes bugs in 7.1... AFA Fixit : you to be right in front of it to read it. For security. AFL Don : There'll soon be another update, but the one now online is a must... SERKER : Fixit, sounds like someone's unloading old matrix screens *laugh* AFC Marvin : That is an interesting screen Walt. It sort of undoes the advantage of the active screen. AFL Don : Yeah, right! Can't imagine anyone who'd want one! AFC Marvin : I don't think I did that HSU Don but I did not have this HD problem until recently and I have been AFL Don : ...for paranoids only, I guess.... AFC Marvin : running 7.1 for some time now. AFL Don : Could be some kind of bug that doesn't manifest until a threshold is crossed, so it's delayed. AFC Marvin : Don, when you sat the update is a must, are you referring to HSU or Disinfectant? AFC Marvin : sat=said SERKER : Fixit...even though I flashed out...I'm still here...just letting you know I hadn't run out. AFL Don : HSU... Disinfectant is a good idea, too, but the HSU was considered to be essential when it first AFL Don : came out... SERKER : DON...wasn't there just another HSU v3.0? Just a few weeks ago... AFC Marvin : I will go get the HSU from MOS when we finish here and give it a try. Could be worth it. AFL Don : v3.0 is out, but hasn't been released by online services yet... SERKER : DON...just got it (maybe 3.1) from my dealer a few weeks ago...would that help him...Ah...never mind. AFA Fixit : Not as of three minutes ago. AFL Don : It makes some noticeable improvements in several areas... The Read.Me is interesting... AFL Don : Wish I had it, waiting for Apple to release it here... AFC Softy : did you know that NBC Online has a newer version of QuickTime (1.6.1) than any of the Mac forums? SERKER : Don,Q...since I have it, can I give it to you, or is that a licensing prob? SERKER : My dealer gave it to me...that's why I'm asking... AFC Marvin : I wonder how people that do not have access to online services such as AOL keep up to date with all AFL Don : That would be a licensing problem, I think... Dealers are ok'd to distribute... SERKER : Ok...never mind...really does help a lot though... AFC Marvin : the updates? When I think about it, I can remember getting a lot of updates for various software AFC Marvin : during the last several years. AFL Don : I think they don't, Marvin, one reason that AO is a near necessity, not a luxury.. AFL Don : Publishers always say they'll send you updates by mail, but they never seem to do it... AFC Softy : afk AFA Fixit : MOS has QT 1.6.1 AFL Don : As a matter of fact, almost every time I've followed up on software registration the publisher AFL Don : has mysteriously lost my card... SERKER : Fixit...you've got me chomping at the bit...any new connections with the AT firmware on the IIGS? AFA Fixit : I seem to suffer from the same problem with registration cards. AFA Fixit : No SERKER. Gave up and put the book away. No useful references. AFL Don : I think it's general policy... I've never had a problem convincing them I'm an owner, but they don't send updates. AFC Marvin : With AppleWorks GS Claris seemed to do a good job of selling me the updated versions. But with ClarisWorks I never hear from them. The ClarisWorks updates I have downloaded from AOL. SERKER : *laugh* thanx anyway...will be working with it through the night... AFA Fixit : Central Point seems the be the only one that keeps track so they can try to talk me into buying their AFL Don : Come to think about, AWGS was the exception that proved the rule... AFA Fixit : virus update subscription service. SERKER : Well guys...thanx for the help tonight...will be leaving now... AFC Softy : Don... prolly because of the Apple II fanatics screaming at them for updates. :) AFL Don : ...Central Point was another exception... Copy2Plus kept me buying regularly... AFL Don : Bye, Serker! AFL Don : right, Larry, and the early AWGS problems were serious enough that AWGS was severely encumbered. AFC Softy : So... what can I do to update the System 7.1 I have on this PB? :) AFC Softy : It came with 7.1... not 7.1.1 or 7.1.2 :) AFL Don : Go to MOS, dl HSU 2.0.1 (not sure of the number), follow the instructions... It'll make a difference. AFC Softy : which library in MOS? AFL Don : Then watch for rev 3.0, any day now. Check in MOS for news, there's a running dialog... AFC Softy : I can't find it AFL Don : Search for Update or HSU, that should do it.. AFC Softy : I did find Zipple... AFA Fixit : Just find it with Quickfinder AFC Softy : I;ve been grabbing quite a lot of stuff from over there. I d/led as many Warner Bros. sound files as AFC Softy : I could before they all go bye bye. }:) AFL Don : I found it... AFL Don : Do a QuickFinder search for UPDATE... It's about AFC Marvin : Oh, that right, Warners objected to the files bein online didn't they? AFL Don : 2 or 3 pages down... The version is 2.0.1... AFC Softy : Yup... AFA Fixit : Well, I'm off to bed. Night guys. AFC Softy : 'nite Walt :) AFL Don : Nite, Walt... AFC Softy : Walt... what library? AFC Softy : er.. Don I mean. AFL Don : MOS AFC Softy : I searched under "HSU" and got a beep file AFC Marvin : I just did an UPDATE QuickFind search and did not find it. AFL Don : Search under UPDATE... AFC Softy : okay AFL Don : You have to page down a few times... It's been around a while... AFC Marvin : OK, that is why I missed it. I thought it was quite new. AFC Softy : Ahh... got it. AFC Marvin : Goodnight Don. AFL Don : Goodnight, all! CUL! AFC Marvin : I think I will say goodnight too so I can pull out some more extensions and see which one is the cause of my problem. AFL Don : Good luck! 6/6/94 7:58:52 PM Closing Log file.