5/9/94 6:24:02 PM Opening ÒChat Log 5/9/94Ó for recording. AFA Fixit : Hiya Don AFL Don : Hello, Walt, Cosmichrli : hello AFL Don : Helloo, Cosmichrli! AFL Don : Welcome to the Apple Hardware Forum Chat! AFL Don : ...or it will be when the crowd arrives.. Cosmichrli : what is afl? AFL Don : That stands for Apple Forum Leader... Cosmichrli : and AFA? AFL Don : (AFA Is Apple Forum Assistant...) What is Cosmichrli? Cosmichrli : Cosmic Charli AFL Don : I get it! Cosmichrli : Its a Grateful Dead thing... AFL Don : Well, I wouldn't know about that ... I may live on the SF peninsula, but I'm not a Dead Head... AFL Don : What computer do you use? Cosmichrli : Right now I'm on my 840av Cosmichrli : But I have a 2x that's sitting around AFL Don : Great on the 840 AV... Heard amazing things about it... Cosmichrli : I was thinking about setting it up for my 5-yr old daughter AFL Don : That's a great idea... Not too soon, for sure, as long as you pick the right stuff for her to work with. Cosmichrli : Right now I have a 2 page display board in it. Will it work with a color 14" mon? AFL Don : Beats me, Walt undoubtedly knows... Cosmichrli : Without a Card? AFA Fixit : Depends on the card. Cosmichrli : Will it work without a card at all? AFA Fixit : An Apple II page display card? AFL Don : Hello, Jess! Welcome to the Apple Hardware Forum chat! JESS MSTNG : Hi. What's the topic? AFL Don : Thunderstorms and computers.. JESS MSTNG : Good time of the year for that! AFL Don : That's why I thought up the topic! AFA Fixit : On a 840AV you don't need a card for a 14" monitor Cosmichrli : No I have a 16" and still need no card, on my 840. Can I do the same on the 2x? RobertD534 : I've still got a IIe, is there still a market for them or they just fancy door stops? AFA Fixit : Nope, you need a card for any monitor on a IIx Cosmichrli : thanks.... AFL Don : Thunderstorms can really do a number on your computer... AFL Don : Hello, Robert! AFL Don : Welcome to the Apple Hardware Forum Chat! JESS MSTNG : What is the general rule of thumb? AFL Don : To be safe, Charlie, unplug everything before lightning comes over the horizon... AFA Fixit : Schools are still using //es RobertD534 : No $ though? AFL Don : If you want to live dangerously, a good zap trap in a power conditioner might get you through ok... Cosmichrli : I always do. I live in Colo. we get the worst afternoon storms... AFL Don : Unless you get a lightning hit in the neighborhood. JESS MSTNG : Okay, thanks. AFL Don : Oh, yea, I used to live in Colo Spgs, remember AWESOME thunderstorms... Cosmichrli : It seems like every day... BOOM BOOM Cosmichrli : Crash Crash... AFL Don : Hardly ever any thunderstorms where I live, now... Cosmichrli : Where is that? AFA Fixit : Fairly regular event here. Flat enough. AFL Don : San Mateo, CA, between San Jose and San Francisco.. AFL Don : I live on top of a hill, though, so when we do get one I'm first in line... Cosmichrli : Do you have any suggestions on color mon cards? Cosmichrli : not to change the subject... AFL Don : No suggestions from me, Charlie... I'm not that far into Macs... AFA Fixit : Low budget? What model monitor? Cosmichrli : Just a 14" color for my kid. AFA Fixit : Apple? Cosmichrli : the cheaper the better.. Cosmichrli : Im going to check the want ads... see you later. AFL Don : You might check out CLASSIFIEDS here on AO for a good used monitor... AFA Fixit : If you have or get a monitor that supports the Apple 13/14" frequency specs, a used Apple Hi-Res AFA Fixit : RGB card is a good deal Cosmichrli : ok thanks... ChrisGurn : HI, thought I'd stop thru. Sri I can't stay tho. AFA Fixit : You can save money buying a VGA monitor, but you lose it back on a card that supports one. AFL Don : LTNS, Chris! Good to see ya again! AFL Don : Well, it's the MHW chat again...AFL Don : Howdy, Frank! BCS Frank : Don, Walt! :) BCS Frank : What's slow? BCS Frank : Is it time to start the chat? AFA Fixit : Hiya Frank, how's the mangle shop these days? BCS Frank : You mean my spelling? AFL Don : On the Apple 2GS front, I've got some troubleshooting to do on mine... AFL Don : for some reason or other, I've been crashing into the monitor randomly, from AppleWorks 3.0. AFL Don : I've done all the obvious things, but haven't found the problem yet. BCS Frank : 3.0? That's pretty stable. BCS Frank : Hmmm... have you been launching AW from the Finder? AFL Don : yeah, I know. I can almost always recover with reset, but something's not right. AFL Don : Yes, I have, Frank, but I did a clean reinstall of the /os, didn't affect the problem. AFA Fixit : Maybe it's AppleWorks itself. AFL Don : I'd suspect 6.0.1, but it worked fine for me for a long time. BCS Frank : I seem to remember some GS aps that set up the system for crashes when BCS Frank : you run an 8-bit program. AFL Don : I did a total reinstall of AW from original disks, too. BCS Frank : Did you run the patcher on your new AW 3.0? AFL Don : Nothing I'm using that's any different than when it used to work fine. AFA Fixit : Memory test? AFL Don : Yes, on the patcher. AFL Don : Memory test passes. BCS Frank : Hmmmm... AWGS memory test, for an hour or three.... BCS Frank : sometimes memory glitches take a while. AFL Don : Just before it started, I was fooling around with Wings, got it locked in a loop with SetStart, so I removed Wings. My best guess is that I didn't get all the debris swept up, but can't figure out what's changed. BCS Frank : Have you looked for hidden files? AFL Don : Anyway, that's when the problem started, so coincidence points to that as the cause. AFL Don : Well, I've scanned the boot volume, didn't see anything... AFL Don : Another thing I did at the same time. For some reason or other TeachText stopped working (I have AFL Don : reports from others who've experienced that...) so I installed Finder Reader... AFL Don : When the crashes started, I took that out, now TeachText pops up as it should, but I still have the AFL Don : crashes.. BCS Frank : You've got a lot of changes going on at the same time there.... AFL Don : So, actually, I did do several things at the same time, so I can't really hit on one of them. AFL Don : Hello, Larry! Good to see ya! BCS Frank : Larry, Hi! :) FCP Sider : Hi! Don It was rough getting on tonight! I tried for about 45 minutes. AFA Fixit : Hey Larry! BCS Frank : Long shot you might try reseating chips and boards too. AFL Don : Gee, I slipped right on, no problem... AFA Fixit : Yeah, just follow you're own advice. FCP Sider : Hi Walt what the subject for tonight? AFL Don : ...good thought, Frank, been a while since I've done that. But MemoryTest.CL passes... AFL Don : Hi Kate! AFA Fixit : Thunderstorms and your GS. TallStuff : *Thump Thud Crash Bang* AFA Fixit : {{{{Kate}}}} TallStuff : Hi there Don :) TallStuff : {{{{Walt}}}} BCS Frank : Loose connections could cause glitches with SCSI, etc., not just memory. AFL Don : True... BCS Frank : Kate, Hi! :) TallStuff : Hi there Frank :) AFA Fixit : Pour a cup of coffee in the box, what doesn't smoke was broke. AFL Don : ...actually, since I (or more properly my wife) hasn't lost data yet, it's just kind of an interesting puzzle so far... AFL Don : let me write that down, Walt.. BCS Frank : Kinda like a flotation test, ehh? :) AFL Don : ...I have been spending all my time fooling with my new fast modem... AFA Fixit : My mother had similar problems with AppleWorks when she first started using the GS. Reformatted and started over. No problems since. AFL Don : ...that's a possibility. Actually, I've got a good way to test that. I have another identical 105-Mbyte hard drive, just sitting there as a backup. If I switch over to the other drive, AFL Don : and the trouble is still there, I'll know it isn't something on the hard drive, but is in the computer. The backup is from a time when everything was hunky-dory... AFL Don : My wife's doing some serious work with a big database now, when she loses a day's work, I'll AFL Don : get serious about fixing it. AFL Don : ...wow, will I get serious! BCS Frank : Been nice knowing you Don..... AFL Don : Speaking of boards, I was talking with the chief engineer of the local tv station, and the new deal AFL Don : is active-plane pc boards, where there are active devices squeezed in a sandwich in a layered board. AFL Don : No way to repair, reasonably... sort of surface mount carried one more step. AFL Don : ....techs, walk the plank, by the numbers! AFA Fixit : They used to just use potting compound to keep you from fixing things. FCP Sider : Either it works or it doesn't work, get a new one if it don't. AFA Fixit : Nobody want's to fix things at the component level anymore. Now you can't AFL Don : Right! I remember potting compound. Actually, though that had a function, a heat sink.. AFA Fixit : Not really. Mostly to keep people out. Also used to add mechanical stability. AFA Fixit : Potted components could be thrown out of an airplane and still work after they hit the ground. MikeSherm2 : Hi All!!! AFL Don : Hello, Mike. Welcome to the Apple Hardware Forum chat! FCP Sider : Why did I send the working one back? I did it in the hope of getting a upgrade unit like the one ... MikeSherm2 : Fixit? FCP Sider : Talked about in MacWeek a few weeks ago. AFA Fixit : Yes? AFL Don : Hmmm. I missed that, read MacWeek regularly, or thought I did... MikeSherm2 : I put a note on the BB for you yesterday, I have an IBM and a //GS I wanna put system 6.0.1. AFA Fixit : I'm afraid I missed that. MikeSherm2 : on the GS, but I only have a modem on my IBM..........Is there a software package that .... MikeSherm2 : lets me do that, or do I need to hardwire them, If so how do I do that (I have a PC-IW cable MikeSherm2 : end AFA Fixit : You need to hardwire them with a software package. AFA AndyW : Hi everyone.. AFA Fixit : Hiya Andy. AFL Don : Hey, hello Andy! LTNS! MikeSherm2 : Fixit, I've got Crosstalk Comm. on the Ibm and AWGS on the GS! MikeSherm2 : Hiya, Andy AFA Fixit : Then the cable and the comm software should let you transfer the files between the two as long as you AFA AndyW : AWGS won't work well with Crosstalk.. MikeSherm2 : I tried to hook it up from the Modem port on GS------LPT1(parallel)port on IBM, it just..... MikeSherm2 : hung the IBM! AFA Fixit : have the right version of ShrinkIt on the GS you should be ok. AFA AndyW : (or anything else for that matter) AFA Fixit : No, you need to go from serial port to serial port. MikeSherm2 : I probably:> need the cable I took back last week (figures)!!! AFA Fixit : Can't mix serial and parallel on the same cable. AFA AndyW : I use 2 different cables with an adaptor between them to connect the PC to AFA AndyW : the IIGS (or did till I got a 14.4k modem for both).. MikeSherm2 : <----can't afford a 2nd 14.4 modem :>:>! AFA Fixit : I take it that the one for the PC is internal? MikeSherm2 : Fixit, then why is Egghead selling the #@$!@ cable for $15.95!!!! MikeSherm2 : Fixit, yep, or I'd go on the GS and FTP it to the GS!!!! AFA AndyW : Yeah.. The modem on the PC is internal.. Other than internal vs external, AFA AndyW : the 2 modems are the same.. MikeSherm2 : I should've paid the extra $20 for the plastic case :>:>! AFL Don : I should know, but don't. If dl something on a PC, then had it off to the GS, is there a header to be AFL Don : stripped as with Mac stuff? MikeSherm2 : Maybe I can talk a friend into letting me use his Supra, hmmmmmm! :>:>:> AFA Fixit : I have no idea why Egghead would be fool enough to sell a parallel to serial cable. There are AFA AndyW : No Don.. AFA Fixit : parallel to serial converters. AFL Don : thanks, Andy... AFA AndyW : Only reason the Mac has a header is to convert the extended files to flat.. AFA Fixit : Kinda hard to hang a internal PC modem on a GS to download GS/OS. AFA AndyW : File format of an AOL/Mac file is: Header, data fork, resource fork.. MikeSherm2 : Don, my problem is GETTING THE STUPID FILES TO THE GS IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!! AFL Don : Reason I asked. Slightly different situation. I'm trying to help a PC user get going on AO, he can't AFA AndyW : A SuperDrive would be nice to have on the GS.. AFL Don : get his download act together, thought I'd transship a PC program to him, if the transfer will work, AFL Don : get him started... AFA Fixit : Then you could read the DOS disks on the GS, but you'd need GS/OS 6.x to do it. MikeSherm2 : Andy, where can I get a SuperDrive, and how much $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$??? MikeSherm2 : Never mind!!! AFL Don : Hello, MTP! Welcome to the Apple Hardware Forum Chat.. AFA AndyW : If you can't afford a second 14.4k modem, you really can't afford a SuperDrive! MikeSherm2 : Sigh, I could use the macs at school, but then I'd have to use a netmodem v2400 S-L-O-W..... MikeSherm2 : as heck!!! AFA AndyW : Not necessarily Mike.. AFA Fixit : Especially when cheap 14.4k modems are under $100 these days. MikeSherm2 : Especially with our Appletalk network! AFA AndyW : Actually, using the Macs at school would probably be the easiest and best way AFL Don : Data only fast modems are really attractive... AFA AndyW : to transfer the files.. AFA Fixit : Where did they find a 2400-bps netmodem? AFA AndyW : At least, if you have the MS-DOS OS extension installed on one of them.. MikeSherm2 : Comp. Teacher had it, get this, directly hooked up to his old //C!!! AFA Fixit : I can't remember ever seeing a network modem slower than 9600 AFA AndyW : Just copy the files from an MS-DOS formatted disk to an HFS formatted 800k AFA Fixit : Sounds like a cludge to me. AFA AndyW : disk, then take the disks to the GS.. MikeSherm2 : It's about 4 years old!! FCP Sider : Walt I just worked on a Mac setup with 7 Mac's running AppleTalk and they had a old 2400 baud.... MikeSherm2 : Andy, we've got IIE cards, so I can put the ProDos disk right into the things! FCP Sider : modem in that setup. AFA Fixit : Sounds like an old 2400 modem with network software on a Mac AFA AndyW : Then you have the ProDos OS extension already installed.. MikeSherm2 : Fixit, It's an OLD shiva NetModem! AFA AndyW : So Mike, it should be easy if you do it on a Mac.. AFA Fixit : I never saw the point of Shiva's netmodems. MikeSherm2 : Fixit, that's basically what the stupid thing is!!!! you have to have your comm software.. MikeSherm2 : at 38400 to get enough throughput to not crash half the network!!!!! MikeSherm2 : and then if there's 16 people playing BOL MikeSherm2 : O on the same HUB, then you've got problems :>:> AFA Fixit : Phonenet and a 2400 netmodem. Ugh! AFA AndyW : Well, I'm heading out.. Say hi to Becky for me Walt! :) MikeSherm2 : Until now, we didn't even HAVE hubs, daisy chained phonenet, one person trys to upload a big MikeSherm2 : file to the server and *DEADMAC* AFL Don : Well, if it's a school it isn't necessarily the Information Highway... (Information Footpath?) AFA Fixit : Will do. Take care. AFL Don : See ya, Andy! AFA AndyW : Cya... MikeSherm2 : (Sound of the LOVELY tones of death) AFA Fixit : Actually the Farallon hubs do nothing to separate traffic. AFL Don : Well, I've gotta shove off, too. Work to do that can't wait... MikeSherm2 : They Speeded up things a LITTLE bit, Fixit! AFA Fixit : Information kiddie car is more like it. AFL Don : Right, Walt! AFA Fixit : Probably by improving the electrical environment. MikeSherm2 : I'm on the Fast Lane of the Superhighway in a VW bug with no engine!!! :>:> AFL Don : I'm peddling as fast as I can! AFA Fixit : fine until you get to the bottom of the hill. AFA Fixit : Night Don. Should get to bed myself. MikeSherm2 : StarCommand is pretty cool, Get ticked off at someone, Turn off the port AFL Don : ...yeah, getting late. Thanks, all! See everyone later! (Good to have you with us, Larry!) FCP Sider : Nite Don, Walt it's time for me to go also. AFL Don : poof MikeSherm2 : I've gotta go, bye everyone!!!!! 5/9/94 8:25:24 PM Closing Log file.