5/2/94 6:24:37 PM Opening ÒChat Log 5/2/94Ó for recording. AFA Fixit : Hi Don! AFL Don : Hello, Walt! AFA Fixit : It does seem so. AFL Don : Hello, Kate! TallStuff : Hi there Don :) AFA Fixit : {{{{{{Kate}}}}} TallStuff : {{{{{{Walt}}}}} AFL Don : Hello, Marvin. AFC Marvin : Good evening Walt and Don. I see things are quiet AFC Marvin : here this evening. AFL Don : Hello Frank... BCS Frank : Marvin, Walt, Don, Hi! :) AFA Fixit : Hiya Marvin and Frank AFC Marvin : Hello Frank! AFA Fixit : Frank, why is it that you always show up at 10? BCS Frank : Cause that's about when I can get online, by the time I bust my way BCS Frank : loose from the ol' machine shop, grab a bit, etc. AFL Don : Marvin and I tried to do a direct connect this afternoon with Zterm, couldn't do it... AFA Fixit : Strange shift for a machinist. AFL Don : Walt, there are machinists, and there are MACHINISTS! Can't lump 'em all... AFC Marvin : It was interesting that we had the letters we typed echo back from each other. AFL Don : Meanwhile, I'll read the ZTerm minidox again, see if I get inspired. AFA Fixit : Are those minidox or microdox? AFL Don : Nanodox, actually... BCS Frank : Well, strange machine shop.... actually get out at about 4 or 5, then commute, and so forth. AFC Marvin : Frank, you must be the owner of the machine shop if you were there so late. BCS Frank : If'n I was the owner I'd be out a lot earlier. :) AFA Fixit : 5 hours? Rough commute! ;) AFC Marvin : I don't think so Frank, the owner is usually the one that comes the earliest and stays the latest. BCS Frank : Ha... explain that to our owner. :) AFL Don : Frank, we could each see our own stuff echoing back ok, but the other guy's stuff was for eye charts... AFA Fixit : You guys must be too reliable. AFC Marvin : We turned off local echo and what I typed came back to me after going through Don's computer and same AFC Marvin : for what he typed. BCS Frank : Tonight for example just finished changing points, plugs cap & rotor on my car AFA Fixit : Points? You have a car with points?! AFL Don : Points, huh? Must be a classic! BCS Frank : "Reliable." Hmmm.... never known the word to be used quite that way. AFC Marvin : But we could not see each others typing. At one time we did have a mode where I could tell Don was typing but it looked like an eye chart. BCS Frank : Come to think of it, you're right.... no points. :) BCS Frank : I have come to miss the simpler cars of yesteryear.... AFC Marvin : Now when I look under the hood of my car I am lost. Not like the days of simple ignition and fuel AFC Marvin : systems. AFA Fixit : Points are one thing that I don't miss. BCS Frank : Today's cars are like working on an off brand mostly Intel box. AFL Don : Two days ago a friend just gave me a copy of the Model A Ford instruction manual... AFL Don : Thin book, interesting reading though.. BCS Frank : Heck, the Model A not only came with a comprehensive, though thin, BCS Frank : manual... it came with a fairly complete tool kit. AFA Fixit : In some ways, my '89 Geo is simpler than my old '72 Chevy. AFC Marvin : I have never seen an instruction book for such an old car. That must be interesting. AFL Don : This is a reprint, but the date is in the 20's or 30's sometime... AFL Don : It's full of pix of the inner workings, gears etc. BCS Frank : Walt, I hope that's a substantial trend.... otherwise only Federal inspectors BCS Frank : will be allowed to unseal the hood. AFC Marvin : Frank, you are probably right. We may be headed that way. BCS Frank : I wonder how closely it resembles the classic Apple II Red Book. AFL Don : There'll be a sign on the hood "No user-serviceable parts inside" like tv sets... BCS Frank : Mass is about to abandon service station inspection... AFA Fixit : Valves are self adjusting. Throttle body is easier to service than a carb. AFC Marvin : Hello BriKish BCS Frank : ... there'll be a whole new series of State Inspection Centers. BriKish : hello..? may I please ask a question related to programming in BASIC? AFL Don : Hello, BriKish! Welcome to the Apple Hardware forum chat! BCS Frank : BriKish, Hi :) AFL Don : Sure, we'll try... AFA Fixit : Sure. Go ahead. BriKish : Thank you, all! :) BCS Frank : Yup :) BriKish : Okay... BriKish : UH.. AFL Don : Go for it! AFA Fixit : Slow down guys, we'll scare 'em off. BriKish : How do I put a double hi-res picture in a program? BriKish : :)... AFA Fixit : Yikes! BCS Frank : Hmmm.... AFL Don : Hmmm. You bload it, then hit the soft switch that changes modes to display HGR... BriKish : I have an Apple //e (enhanced) so.. BCS Frank : What's the command? "HGR?" BriKish : I forgot the trick... BriKish : it has to do with some of the call or other commands AFL Don : ...Actually, I think it's a little more complicated than that. Double Hi-Res requires some fancy tricks BCS Frank : I used to know that stuff... first "program" I ever did was a map animation. BriKish : yeah...it requires to "fix-up" the ram with a call command AFL Don : There are programs with subroutines that care of what needs to be done, probably some in the ADV library BriKish : and then BRUN the DHR file into that block reserved by the call command? BCS Frank : Are you programming in AppleSoft BASIC or one of the other BASICS? BriKish : AppleSoft AFL Don : SHR I've done from Basic, DHR I've done using other people's code. BCS Frank : I -think- but don't know for sure that some of the other Basics have more BCS Frank : graphic routines built in. AFL Don : The 80-Column manual from Apple tells all about the various soft switches that toggle into SHR and back into text mode AFL Don : but I don't think DHR was anticipated when the 80-column card manual was written. AFL Don : After the first //e computers came out, a new motherboard was released that would then support AFL Don : DHR, so it must have been an afterthought. BriKish : ok right now I'm looking in the 80-column card manual from Apple.. BriKish : hey.. BriKish : I found the addresses necessary to do this trick.. BriKish : wait.. AFL Don : I think there are three addresses you need to know, along with their respective pokes. BCS Frank : Seek and Ye Shall Find.... eventually.... :) BriKish : I do have the "normal" 280 dot high-res graphics, but do I have the optional 560-dot hi-res graphics? BriKish : :) AFL Don : I don't think so, BK, not without jumping through a few more hoops not mentioned in the manual. AFL Don : It's obscure enough that a few people sold programs to do the tricks when DHR first came out... BCS Frank : Hmmm... isn't Beagle BASIC freely available now? AFL Don : Personally, I've never been impressed with the difference between HGR and DHR. Just doesn't look that much better to me... BCS Frank : What kind of graphics are you loading? BriKish : oh I do not know for sure... AFL Don : Quality exercised their option to pull the Beagle Classics back from their no-cost distribution, I hear.. BriKish : I think I will download a graphic related to law enforcement or crime or something like BriKish : that in GIF format and convert it to DHR and then BCS Frank : Like Ollie North before Congress? AFL Don : What was the name of the Beagle routine that everyone licensed for graphics... I think that AFL Don : does it very easily, if memory isn't failing me... BriKish : put it in a program that I will create for my government class..I have a presentation so.. BriKish : I'm going to create a stimulation program which involves with preventing crime BCS Frank : They did have a few slide programs... my old Beagle catalogs are packed up BriKish : and I would like to insert a graphics at the beginning of the program as part of the intro thing BCS Frank : now (just moved) or I'd browse though them. AFA Fixit : Beagle Graphics? AFL Don : Mine too, Frank, can't bear to throw 'em away... BCS Frank : Hey, when the 25th Anniversary edition of the Apple II is released AFL Don : No, I don't think so, Walt... I'll think of the name tomorrow. BCS Frank : that Beagle stuff will be -very- valuable! AFL Don : It's valuable now! I still check it out when I need a nostalgia fix... BCS Frank : ProntoDOS.... TripleDump, DOS Boot! :) AFL Don : TripleDump! That's it! There was a routine in there that everyone licensed, became a standard... AFL Don : piece of code for graphics. BCS Frank : Kitchen Sink still uses that... but that's BCS Frank : a printer routine, not a screen graphic routine, methinks. AFL Don : Well, maybe my lobotomy is acting up again... BriKish : HEY GUYS... BCS Frank : Yo? AFL Don : yes? BCS Frank : What's that other OS that kitchen sink uses? MicroDOT? BriKish : do I need to type a line with a poke command and the address to prepare a DHR page...if so... AFL Don : Take the advice of a college prof, spend 99% of your effort writing the report, 1% doing tricks with the printout... BriKish : then how do I insert the DHR graphic? AFL Don : You can include the poke in the basic program. Just put in a step such as BCS Frank : AFL Don : 10 Poke 1012, 0 AFA Fixit : It would have to be a separate file that you call from AppleSoft. BriKish : ok... AFA Fixit : The graphic that is. AFL Don : Yeah, right... AFL Don : do this AFL Don : 100 Print CHR$(4)"Bload PICTURE" AFL Don : It'll load at the address where it was placed when saved, using latest version of the operating system. BriKish : okay.... AFL Don : Then when you do the right pokes to switch to the screen-display mode, you'll see it. BriKish : let me try that.... BCS Frank : Can you invoke the screen display and -then- bload the graphic? BriKish : hold on...i will remain here...as I will go over to my //e and try that.. BCS Frank : I seem to recall that if you do that, bloading one graphic over another BCS Frank : you get a "Venetian blind" kind of transition. AFL Don : I think your recollection is right, Frank, but it's been a lotta years since I've done it... BCS Frank : Paul, Hi! :) PaulBZ : Hi all What's new tonight? AFC Marvin : Hello Paul! BCS Frank : Paul, do you recall AppleSoft to load and show a SHR graphic screen? AFL Don : BriKish, you can probably get additional help from the ADV area, where the programmers are... AFL Don : Hello Paul! AFA Fixit : Hi Paul BriKish : well...I do not have much time and the programmers don't meet tonight..so... PaulBZ : I believe you can but I would have to check my ref manual PaulBZ : AFA Did you get my letter from last week? BCS Frank : checking a few refs here... PaulBZ : Frank ,AppleSoft may limit you to the DHR screen. BriKish : okay... AFL Don : I think you have to BRUN a piece of code to do DHR from AppleSoft... AFA Fixit : Yes I did. Finally got the RAM out today. Teaching all last week. Doesn't leave time for much else. :( BriKish : I just bloaded a DHR picture...now what do I need to do? AFL Don : Check the manual for the pokes to switch the screen mode. You have to do them in the right order to AFL Don : get out of text mode, that I remember... BCS Frank : What's the graphic screen that the AppleSoft command HGR gets? AFL Don : That gets you into the SHR screen, I think... BCS Frank : Hmmm... would SHR be enough for your purposes? AFL Don : If you switch into SHR mode with DHR pix bloaded, you should see something, but not properly. BriKish : guys... AFL Don : SHR would be a LOT easier to work with... BriKish : what is the command to trigger a DHR screen? PaulBZ : HGR gets you a 280 by 160 screen. AFL Don : I don't think it's built into the 80-column firmware, BK... BCS Frank : Ther may not -be- a DHR trigger command. AFL Don : That's the point BriKish : oh..ok thanks Paul..that's it.. AFL Don : You have to add some binary code to do it, not easy. AFL Don : You'll be reinventing the wheel unless you can find the code ready made. BriKish : so I should command my //e to trigger a DHR screen by the 'HGR' command.. AFL Don : It might be in the ADV library... AFL Don : No, BK... HGR will switch to the SHR screen... BCS Frank : Except that HGR will just call up the SHR screen.... BriKish : But I do not have a GS to do a SHR BriKish : so how..? BCS Frank : Not talking GS here at all. BriKish : oh.. BriKish : uh..be right back.. AFL Don : SHR is available in the //e... AFL Don : ...also the GR screen, which is super blocky, as in Little BrickOut. AFA Fixit : There's a file called TN.AIIE.003 in the ADV library. BriKish : okay.. BriKish : I figure that i need to add an address.. AFA Fixit : Tutorial on Double High Res. AFL Don : That's what you need to read, BK, the file Walt found for you... BriKish : what? BCS Frank : Darn! I'd forgotten the Tech notes! BriKish : oh....tech notes... BriKish : I have the Apple // tech notes.. BCS Frank : TN.AIIE.003 is a tech note about the Apple II put BriKish : let me look at them.. BCS Frank : out by Apple Computer. BriKish : is the TN.AIIE.003 what i need? AFA Fixit : Is from the description. AFL Don : It's probably the best you're going to do, BK... AFL Don : ...after you read it, you'll understand what you're up against. BriKish : ok..be right back..I'm going to access to these notes on my hard disk BCS Frank : You might post a question in the AGS Forum. BCS Frank : George! :) AFL Don : Write the report first, so it gets done correctly, then figure out how to dress it up! GHutch : Frank! AFA Fixit : Hi George AFL Don : Hey, George! GHutch : Hi Walt! GHutch : So what's shaking' tonight? AFL Don : What's new? GHutch : Got an A-talk net card for the printer GHutch : now I have a real network BCS Frank : Ahhhh, networking your system? GHutch : the 2GS and the duo can share a printer GHutch : without a cable swap AFL Don : I do that w/o a cable swap, no network... PaulBZ : Can any "briefly " explain how to set up a server and network using a Mac+ AFA Fixit : I just wrote it up in Let's Discuss last week. PaulBZ : with 1 Meg or is it impossible? GHutch : Don , you use an A-B switch perhaps? AFL Don : Nope... I just leave my DeskJet plugged into the 2GS Parallel Pro all the time, have serial cable AFL Don : connected to the DJ serial port ready to plug into my PowerBook when I want to print from the Mac... AFL Don : What could be simpler? AFL Don : I just don't try to print to the DJ from both computers at the same time. BriKish : okay thank you so much guys! :) BCS Frank : Paul, Regret, I don't know about serving with the Mac plus. AFL Don : Good luck, BK... BCS Frank : BriKish, let us know how it works out BriKish : if I have a problem..I'll come back... BriKish : okay..will do.... AFL Don : Hey, Hari! LTNS! BCS Frank : Hari, LTNS! :) BriKish : Later guys.. GHutch : Do you guys have an opinion on how to connect a PC and a Mac? Hari Figg : Too true. Finally got a Mac. New learning curve. AFL Don : No... BCS Frank : Well, you can use Appletalk... Need Appletalk cards for the PC. AFA Fixit : Hari PaulBZ : Walt , I had a good discussion with Dave Empson from New Zealand this past week AFA Fixit : I prefer to set up both with Ethernet cards. Hari Figg : Walt? AFL Don : Learning curve is easy if you're into the 2GS. No problem switching to the Mac at all. PaulBZ : on the problem I was having with that apple ram card. I think he AFA Fixit : Yup PaulBZ : knows more about Apple hardware than Apple ever knew. GHutch : Yeah, I'd like to avoid putting any cards in the PC since it is a machine at work. Hari Figg : Is it news any longer that ECON has bailed?? GHutch : Hari, they gone? BCS Frank : Hmmm... does the machine at work handle Ethernet? AFC Marvin : George, are you familiar with Cross-Works for doing file exchanges between an Apple II and a PC? BCS Frank : I've heard LRO has gone all Mac. AFA Fixit : You can get a parallel port ethernet adapter for the PC. Hari Figg : Yep. They're selling off their hardware (only the Sound Meister was left) and looking for buyers for GHutch : no, it has a token ring adaptor and the serial port is plugged into the modem. :/ AFC Marvin : Cancel that George. I see you were asking how to connect a PC and Mac not an Apple II. Hari Figg : their softwares. BCS Frank : Ethernet can link Macs and PCs, faster than Appletalk but more expensive. GHutch : Marvin, I've seen the ads for CrossWorks but haven't tried it. Hari Figg : ... and TMS's phones were disconnected last week. Haven't checked lately. AFC Marvin : I have it here but have not used it yet. BCS Frank : I think CrossWorks only covers AppleWorks 3 GHutch : TMS is gone too? Wow ...dropping like flies AFL Don : Last person to leave the pioneer computer hall, please turn out the lights... AFL Don : I hear that Commodore is now officially kaput. AFA Fixit : Really? Hari Figg : Of course the really GREAT news is that AE finally bought it. :) AFC Marvin : Frank you are right about Crossworks only working on AppleWorks. I am looking at it now and I don't AFA Fixit : That just leaves Apple and Tandy. BCS Frank : We is no longer on the frontier, now we are keepers of the AFC Marvin : see any mention of a limitation to version 3.0 of AppleWorks. AFL Don : Yup... BCS Frank : secrets of the ancients. :)] AFL Don : Like the Last Man Clubs of WWI BCS Frank : Tondine? Was that the term? BCS Frank : Tontine. AFC Marvin : Is it true that Applied Engineering is also gone now? Not too long ago I saw them advertising in AFA Fixit : Will be interesting to see which gets the bottle of brandy. AFC Marvin : one of my Mac magazines. But maybe they never made the Mac transition successfully. AFL Don : Yes, Marvin, AE folded... AFA Fixit : They made some dumb mistakes. GHutch : This keeper of the ancients is headed for the late news, nice to see ya'all again. AFL Don : Betcha AE would be around if they hadn't snubbed the Apple-2... Word got around. Hari Figg : BTW, AW 4.0 only changed the Data Base, no? AFC Marvin : Don, we better hope our AE cards hold up and don't need repair. AFL Don : Hey, good to see ya, George! Don't stay away so long! BCS Frank : Data base and spreadsheet. AFC Marvin : Actually I have a memory card in my IIC+ at work that has a clock on it. The clock is bad. It runs Hari Figg : Ah. (sorry) AFC Marvin : real slow. Guess I should have had it repaired long ago. AFL Don : Right, Marvin! I thought my Parallel Pro quit this morning when I had a stuck busy light on my DJ! AFA Fixit : Make back ups of any firmware if possible and you should be able to handle the rest. BCS Frank : Keep a copy of AW 3, and AW 2 if you've got it... AFL Don : ....in my safe deposit box, Frank! PaulBZ : Hey Frank I still use AW 1.3 some times Hari Figg : Now that we've counted the losses, are there any gains? BCS Frank : They can be handy for some of those odd file transfer odyssey type trips. AFA Fixit : Well, I'm off to bed. BCS Frank : Gains? HyperCard and Nexus now free..... PaulBZ : It will run on a 64k AII+ Hari Figg : 'nite Walt. AFC Marvin : Goodnight Walt. AFA Fixit : Night folks BCS Frank : Real soon now no one will worry about Apple II warranties. PaulBZ : Nite Walt AFL Don : ...I'm thinking, I'm thinking, Hari... HyperCard, ShareWare Solutions, etc. etc. BCS Frank : Night, Walt :) AFL Don : Night Walt... BCS Frank : Shareware Solutions I'm very impressed with. AFL Don : Well, I've gotta go, got a test to write again... PaulBZ : I'm heading for the shower guys. AFL Don : Good to see ya again, Paul! BCS Frank : And of course.... there are -no- new Apple II viruses! BCS Frank : Bye Paul :) AFL Don : Right! Hari Figg : bye Paul BCS Frank : Got a real scare the other day... read about three new Apple II AFC Marvin : Good night Don. If I get a chance I will call you tomorrow for another test of Zterm or we can try AFC Marvin : ClarisWorks. BCS Frank : viruses coming out of Italy.... turned out to be Mac virii. Hari Figg : Alltech, Quality, SS? That's about it? BCS Frank : Roger Wagner... BCS Frank : Big Red.... BCS Frank : SoftDisk... Hari Figg : er, this is the HW forum ;) AFC Marvin : Frank I heard about the Italian Virus too but what I heard indicated it was for the Mac. I use a Mac BCS Frank : I'm not picky.... AFC Marvin : too so it still bothers me. AFL Don : Hey, gotta go... See everyone later! BCS Frank : Right, Marvin, I just misread the headlines. 5/2/94 8:07:18 PM Closing Log file.