3/14/94 6:24:39 PM Opening ÒChat Log 3/14/94Ó for recording. SPEEDLIMIT : Hi Don :) Am I early AFL Don : Hi Marvin! AFL Don : ...only about a minute AFL Don : Hello, Larry, and hi FCP Sider : Hi Don SPEEDLIMIT : I can't think... BCS ??? coming tonight ? AFL Don : Glen! Welcome to the Apple Hardware Forum Chat! SPEEDLIMIT : Howdy Sider and Glen :) FCP Sider : Hi everyone! AFL Don : Frank's been here every Monday night for the last few weeks... AFL Don : I'll be surprised if he fails to show tonight! SPEEDLIMIT : Right :) I just saw that he was online :) GlenG3 : Hello, humans GlenG3 : Is there a plan for tonight?? AFA Fixit : Hi Folks! AFL Don : The topic for tonight is.... Are there computer failures that are preventable... If anyone's interested... QualityCom All computer problems are avoidable by leaving the power switch off GlenG3 : yes, I agree, all problems are related to power. AFL Don : Right, Bill! And by not buying one in the first place, but who'd wanta do that! QualityCom : Welcome AFA AndyW AFA AndyW : Hi Everyone.... AFL Don : Hello, Andy! QualityCom : Welcome Jack 12345 Jack 12345 : hello AFA AndyW : So Bill, how's the review of OE going?? AFL Don : Hello, Jack QualityCom : Quite well, It should be in the next issue AFL Don : Welcome to the Apple Hardware Forum Chat! SPEEDLIMIT : Howdy Andy and Jack and Frank :) AFA AndyW : Will you want to send a draft of it to be before publication so I can check QualityCom : Welcome BCS Frank AFA AndyW : for any errors?? QualityCom : I could do that AFA AndyW : Or something that might have been missed... BCS Frank : Don, Bill, Andy, Walt, John, Jack, Speed, y'all, Hi :) AFA AndyW : So, when's the next issue due out?? QualityCom : In another month or so. AFL Don : Hi Frank! Didn't see you come in... I'm having really peculiar problems here... May have to log off, come back on... AFA Fixit : Howdy Frank AFL Don : Gotta leave, BRB... 3/14/94 6:43:53 PM Closing Log file. 3/14/94 6:47:50 PM Opening ÒChat Log 3/14/94.contÓ for recording. AFC Softy : (oh.... Andy too! ;) AFC Softy : Hi Don! :D SPEEDLIMIT : Howdy Softy ;) AFL Don : I'm back, I think... Having big-time problems here tonight... AFC Softy : Well.... anyone see the PowerPC satellite broadcast today? ;) QualityCom : Did it have a bus tour? AFA Fixit : Don might know where to find the sub-brightness adjustment on the GS monitor. SPEEDLIMIT : LOL AFC Softy : heheh... Bill... I think they ruled out the bus tours after the last one. ;) AFC Softy : I went to the bookstore at the local university on Saturday looking for a Modula-2 book. They had a PPC set up already but it was covered with a sheet. GlenG3 : Don, do you know about the internal adjustment(s) on the IIGS monitor?? QualityCom : It's one of the two adjustments on the flyback transformer. AFL Don : What kind of problem are you having, Glen? QualityCom : Pretty bad place to be if you haven't been there before GlenG3 : It's just getting old, but some colors (like dark green) has always been .. hard to make out. AFL Don : ...I don't know for sure re: master brightness adjust... Didn't see one when working on my monitor... AFL Don : Glen, do you still see good whites in highlights? GlenG3 : Yes AFC Softy : AFA AndyW : See you all later... AFL Don : There are color-tracking pots for R, G, B on the monitor, but if you see untinted white when changing AFL Don : brightness, the colors are tracking ok... AFA AndyW : >>POOF<< AFL Don : Is your only complaint that green is too dark at low brightness? BCS Frank : GlenG3 : To see dark green the brightness needs to be close to full on. But white GlenG3 : is good. QualityCom : Welcome ArturJ ArturJ : Hi all AFL Don : I don't think you want to reduce the master CRT bias, otherwise red and blue'll be too hot... AFC Softy : Ack.... I have a black border that I'm not supposed to have! AFL Don : Hello, ArturJ! Welcome to the Apple Hardware Forum Chat! AFA Fixit : That's nice Larry. AFC Softy : (whew... got my dark blue back :) GlenG3 : Maybe it's as good as it can be. thanks AFL Don : The border color is subject to change, depending upon pokes that can happen... QualityCom : Welcome AFC Marvin AFC Softy : Hi Marvin :) AFL Don : Hello, Marvin! AFC Marvin : Good evening to all! AFL Don : The beta versions of AWGS had a neat deal for beta testers where the border would change color with the type of error... Kinda nifty! ArturJ : got a question AFC Softy : Must've been something I ran then. 'Cuz *I* didn't change it. :) AFL Don : So, something that corrupts the byte that stores border color could cause a shift... AFL Don : Go for it, Artur! AFL Don : Either that, Larry, or your BRAM battery is getting tired! ArturJ : anybody familiar with Apple IIe compatible kit computer that had Z-80 on main logic bd AFC Softy : Hmmmm... well Twilight II turns the border black when a blanker kicks in. BCS Frank : That be a strange kitten! AFA Fixit : Sounds like a Basis 108. AFC Softy : Maybe it did it and then I had a crash (had one the other night when the IIgs AFC Softy : was unattended) ArturJ : that's IT ! BCS Frank : 6502 emulation on the Z-80, or a spare 6502 on the side? AFL Don : There was a board for the //e with a Z-80 that was sold to permit CPM... AFA Fixit : There may actually still be some Basis 108 users groups around. QualityCom : Well, I've got to snag the Genie messages. See ya all later BCS Frank : Right, Don, but this sounds like that inside out. AFA Fixit : Had a 6502 and a Z80 on the motherboard. AFL Don : Hey, good to see ya, Bill! Please come back! ArturJ : I have few disks in CP/M format recorded on Basis 108 AFC Softy : {{{{{Beckstah!!}}}}}} :) ArturJ : do you know if there is a way of reading them ? TallStuff : {{{{{{Larrystah}}}}}}} :) AFA Fixit : If it followed the Apple CPM format, you'd probably need a Basis 108 or an Apple II with a CPM card. AFC Softy : An Apple II with the Microsoft SoftCard installed might. AFL Don : As I recall, there was a boot disk that put you into CPM if you had one of these boards... AFA Fixit : Not too much around these days that can read 143k GCR 5.25" disks. ArturJ : Yes, I have couple of those disks AFL Don : ...are you sure there's something on the disks worth the trouble? AFL Don : Hello, Kate! ArturJ : some programs that I wrote in assembly language and in Pascal AFC Marvin : Good evening Kate!! TallStuff : bbl FCP Sider : Don there is a program in the Apple II library that will convert CPM files to DOS3.3 or ProDos. ArturJ : I'd like to have this stuff AFL Don : Chances are, all you need to do is do what you used to do... Should still work... AFL Don : Forgot about that, Larry... I'd be surprised, though, if a translated program would work in every case... AFA Fixit : I take it that you no longer have the computer. FCP Sider : Don its not for the program, it's for the data or WP files. ArturJ : Well I still have it but it is in Europe AFL Don : The card should work in a 2GS... (Ok, Larry, that should work ok, I'd think...) AFA Fixit : That's a good place for it as it was manufactured in Germany. AFL Don : ...there were some weird variants in the way data was stored in the days when CPM seemed to be a good idea... ArturJ : Oh, that's why some of the manuals were in German AFA Fixit : You could try to find someone with a Basis or a II with a CPM card. AFA Fixit : There was a specific Apple II CPM format. AFL Don : I think you're going to need to have access to the hardware or you'll be out of luck... ArturJ : Is there any chance that I can hook-up regular floppy drive to my PC with some ArturJ : glue chips ArturJ : and read my floppies AFC Softy : (Hmmmm... what we need is a CPM.FST here... :) AFL Don : Nil chance that you can read the floppies that way, I suspect... AFA Fixit : Central Point did have a controller that let 320kb IBM drives read Apple Dos 3.3 and ProDos disks. ArturJ : So first I would have to convert my files to Apple format and then transfer them to PC AFA Fixit : But it was for making bit image copies. AFC Marvin : I got bumped off while logged on at 9600 and then could not get back on at 9600. After several tries AFC Marvin : I made it back on at 2400. Anybody else get dumped off? ArturJ : I'm online at 9600, no problems AFC Softy : 9600?? What's dat? ;D AFA Fixit : If you have the hardware to convert the disks to ProDos, you have the hardware to transfer it to BCS Frank : <-- not dumped, but at 2400. AFL Don : You only were punted, Marvin... AFA Fixit : a medium that a PC can handle. AFA Fixit : If they aren't source code, they're worthless. Probably have to work on any source code from a AFA Fixit : CPM system. ArturJ : will Apple IIe or IIc be able to read my disks ? AFC Marvin : Sounds like I was singled out for that punting off Don. AFA Fixit : I can only connect at 9600 from work. Pretty nice though. AFL Don : Artur, you'll have to have the CPM card... AFL Don : Then it's possible, but I can't say for certain... AFC Softy : The IIc won't..... but a IIe with a Z-80 card installed *might*. ArturJ : O.K. Do you know of anybody who still has Basis 108 ? AFC Softy : (whooops... there was a Z-80 card for the IIc wasn't there?) AFA Fixit : Have to boot from CPM to read the CPM format disks. I don't remember having a conversion disk. AFC Marvin : Why only at work Walt? No local number from home? AFC Softy : (AE made it I think) AFA Fixit : Applied Engineering had one. AFA Fixit : In Smyrna, DE? You must be kidding. There isn't a 9600 node in the state of Delaware. AFL Don : I think CPM was falling out of favor by the time the IIc happened... AFC Marvin : Walt I guess you are lucky to have a local number for 2400. AFA Fixit : Artur, I'd post a request in each of the Apple II and CPM (if any) related forums for assistance AFC Marvin : I remember paying $200 for CPM to run on my old 8080 computer. Never did get it to run. The AFC Marvin : $200 was a total waste. I never could get my money back on it. ArturJ : Great idea, thanks Fixit AFA Fixit : Best chance a I can of finding someone who might have a system that could make a conversion. I'll BCS Frank : If you don't make progress, drop me a line... the BCS has a CPM/Zytel group. AFL Don : Hello, Dob0! Welcome to the Apple Hardware Forum Chat! AFA Fixit : try to look in my basement for the old Z80 card I had for my //e. Had problems with it in the IIgs, AFA Fixit : so it's either in storage or sold. Jack 12345 : <- have an old AE Z80+, but none of the disks Jack 12345 : if you've got the sw, then you can have the card Dob0 2 : Hi Don looking for help with ProTerm communication software AFL Don : What's your problem, Dob? ArturJ : what is AE Z80+ ? Dob0 2 : when I load it up it keeps telling me to hang up AFL Don : ACM might be a better area for comm help, but we'll try... I use ProTerm 2.2 here... Jack 12345 : CP/M card for a //e BCS Frank : Hmmm... rude software, that! Jack 12345 : pretty much useless without the software, tho ArturJ : I'd like to give it a try ArturJ : I have software for Basis 108. Dob0 2 : hey its for a course and its their software but i haven't got any help there AFA Fixit : Do you have a //e you can pop it into Artur? ArturJ : I think I can find one AFL Don : What hardware are you using, DoB? ProTerm is getting the message that your modem's off hook, AFL Don : somehow... AFA Fixit : Don't forget the drive and some way to get the data to your computer. Dob0 2 : IIgs and a zoom modem Jack 12345 : you have the disk to start up CPM? and 5.25 dd? ArturJ : If I can run CP/M, I can find software to transfer data ArturJ : I have cp/m 2.? and 3.0 AFA Fixit : If it's not too much data you could upload it to America Online. AFA Fixit : Pull it back down on the PC. Jack 12345 : hmmm... just might work ArturJ : connecting serial port to my pc is easier Jack 12345 : use the CP/M version of AOL ;) AFA Fixit : If you can get them close enough. :) ArturJ : even over the modem it should work Jack 12345 : what serial port? SSC? will CP/M recognize it? AFC Softy : <-- still trying to get someone signed on with a IIgs and SmartOne modem :D ArturJ : I transferred data between Mac and PC over serial port Jack 12345 : yes, but the //e doesn't have a built in serial port, Jack 12345 : you'll have to use a serial card ArturJ : Whell I dunno about IIe, but my Basis 108 had regular serial port AFL Don : You need a Super Serial Card... AFL Don : ...or a clone, thereof... ArturJ : are there any ports on CP/M card ? BCS Frank : I believe that the clones are cheaper now than the Apple Inc Super Serial Card. Jack 12345 : so the story goes like this... use CP/M to transfer AFA Fixit : Still trying eh? Can't understand what the problem is Larry. Should work with Hayes or Other Hayes... AFL Don : ...a LOT cheaper! Jack 12345 : the files to Prodos then from ProDos to DOS via Jack 12345 : serial port AFA Fixit : with factory defaults other than error correction. AFA Fixit : None on the ones' I've seen. ArturJ : but why bother with going through ProDos AFC Softy : Walt... I just emailed her back asking if they have used the modem with the AFC Softy : IIgs before. ArturJ : why not just go directly from CP/M do PC Jack 12345 : I'm not sure CP/M will recognize an SSC AFC Softy : For logging onto other BBSs and stuff. Jack 12345 : Do you know, Walt? AFA Fixit : If you could find a TeleCom program for CPM you could do it. AFL Don : I think it will, Jack. A college project I worked on for a few years chose CPM on Apple //e's as the official word processor basis (Wierdstar) for the project, did a lot of printing through SSCs... BCS Frank : Wasn't there a CPM Kermit? AFC Softy : Walt.... when I gave her the different Modem Port settings to use she did get Jack 12345 : cool, this just might work after all ArturJ : actually if I can hook-up couple chips directly to Z80, I can make interface to go AFA Fixit : I'm sure there was, but I'd doubt you'd find it anywhere but an old Internet archive. ArturJ : directly to PC AFC Softy : farther into the sign on sequence. But she still can't get in. AFA Fixit : Or an Apple II user's group if you can find one. AFL Don : At best, you're going to have to be very creative to make it work, I think.. GlenG3 : goodnight all Jack 12345 : question is...how to get cp/m to send it... ArturJ : Whell, maybe I just should try to bring my Basis 108 here Jack 12345 : I'm not a CP/M guru, anything like TYPE file > COM1 ? AFC Softy : (I'll be sending out email to some of the A2 staff with the situation as it AFC Softy : stands.) ArturJ : There are comm programs for CP/M AFA Fixit : Yep, there was if I remember correctly. AFL Don : Maybe you can PRINT to the serial card from CPM... ArturJ : I think I have one that will do xmodem AFL Don : Hello, NRM! Welcome to the Apple Hardware Forum Chat! Jack 12345 : whoa! you already HAVE a CP/M comm program?? AFA Fixit : You can PIP a file to TTY, the serial port. ArturJ : I can run CP/M on my PC and I have a few programs AFC Softy : gotta leave.... see ya'll next week :) AFL Don : Thanks for dropping by, Larry! SPEEDLIMIT : Later Larry :) Jack 12345 : Anything you can run from a PC floppy isn't going to fly on the //e AFL Don : On another subject, just bought a new piece of software for my PowerBook... What the 2GS needs AFL Don : is the same thing for the Apple 2! It's called RamDoubler, and is it ever nifty! AFL Don : Somebody should write something comparable for the 2GS, it'd make real performance available to a lot of 2GS users with minimum ram... Jack 12345 : actually RamDoubler does pretty much the same thing the GS memory manager already does ArturJ : I'm not sure I understand Jack Jack 12345 : sorry, Don AFL Don : ...the 2GS is WAY ahead of the Mac in the way that memory is handled dynamically... Jack 12345 : the floppy format for PC and //e 5.25 are nowhere near alike AFL Don : Yeah, I'm sorry too... It was a good thought, though... NRMidland : Should I buy a new ram card for my gs (dump my old 3meg AEGSRamplus) just so I can get DMA? ArturJ : True AFA Fixit : It depends if you want to use a card that uses DMA. AFL Don : DMA is nifty... There are some really-good deals on RamCards now... ArturJ : O.K. gotta go. Thanks for great suggestions ! AFL Don : Only you can decide if the added performance is worth the bux to buy it... NRMidland : I have an Apple SCSI that can use DMA; I have a ZipGSX I never installed that may not have DMA. AFL Don : Good luck, Artur... SPEEDLIMIT : Midland.. unless you have the First ZipGS Board they are suppose to be DMA AFL Don : I'm using a ZIPGSX, doing DMA with a RamFAST, no problems... AFA Fixit : You'd notice a tremendous increase in disk access speed with DMA active. AFL Don : You need the 1.02 rev for the ZipGSX, otherwise it's too noisy for DMA... Sequential Systems should be able to tell you about upgrade possibilities... NRMidland : My Zip is an old Version that even zip didn't know whether it had DMA. They said "Try it." ;/ SPEEDLIMIT : Midland... they were suppose to replace the older boards Free AFL Don : What is the version? Should be on the card... 1.01 is the rev that wouldn't work reliably, as AFL Don : I recall... SPEEDLIMIT : <<-- at lest they did for me ;) NRMidland : Don, you mean S.S. might upgrade my Zip??..not sure of my version. AFC Marvin : I have been very pleased with the RamFAST and ZipGSX combination. It makes for a fast IIGS. AFL Don : I bought one of the first ZIPGSX cards, and it was/is ok.. SPEEDLIMIT : Did Zip sell out ???? I must have missed that :> <<-- also had one of the First Zips. I think they only produced a couple of hundred of the first boards AFL Don : The RamFAST/ZIPGSX combo with DMA is effectively as fast as reading/writing from ram... Maybe not AFL Don : quite, but it's close. AFL Don : I think ZIP is still in business, but is less accessible than in years past. Jack 12345 : you must have some really slow ram, Don SPEEDLIMIT : Don.. what's fun is using that combination with 2 SyQuest. Then you back up one Cart to the other.. takes about 2 minutes to do about 40 megs ;) AFL Don : Not so, Jack... AFC Marvin : My ZipGSX card was sold with the longer ribbon cable which I had to exchange for the shorter cable to make it work reliably. AFL Don : Actually, writes go into the 1-meg buffer so I'm really writing to ram with the RamFAST... AFL Don : But with 1-meg buffer on the rev-D RF, it'll keep up with data flow, so the buffer never overruns... AFC Marvin : Jack it amazes me to see how fast a large save gets put on the hard disk with the ZipGSX RamFAST combo AFC Marvin : which to me feels like it is writing to ram. SPEEDLIMIT : Don... when I do a back up with my SyQuest it seem like the Buffer is nearly Jack 12345 : BTW, I have a RamFAST too SPEEDLIMIT : 6 megs for me. but I do have 6 megs Ram inside ;) AFL Don : I regularly use a RamKeeper on a 2GS at my office, the hard disk at home is just as fast as the RK... Jack 12345 : I won't argue that reading from/ writing to cache Jack 12345 : is as fast or faster than the GS ram, but there's SPEEDLIMIT : Been a while since I've done this, but as I recall when I use to put AWGS on Jack 12345 : nothing the RamFAST can do to speed up the drive itself SPEEDLIMIT : a RAM disk and launch it. I think it was a little faster than the Combo, but SPEEDLIMIT : not by much actually. AFL Don : Jack, my point is that it is effectively as fast as writing to ram, and if you're not aware of delays it probably isn't too significant if there is a speed difference... With 1:1 interleave, my drive is fast enough... Jack 12345 : I know what you're saying, I was just trying to be funny sheesh AFL Don : ...about 18 seconds through the finder on a cold start, which is fast... AFL Don : :) SPEEDLIMIT : I think AWGS would Launch in about 12 seconds from the RAM DISK SPEEDLIMIT : takes about 18 seconds off the hard drive with the RamFAST/Zip combo AFL Don : It's about that from the hard disk/RF combo... AFL Don : ...haven't timed it for a while. It's fast enough so the delay just isn't important to me... SPEEDLIMIT : right... SPEEDLIMIT : <<- still remember loading from the disk ;) SPEEDLIMIT : 3 1/2 minutes or so ;) LOL Jack 12345 : BTW, let me re-introduce myself. I used to hang around here back Jack 12345 : when I went by the name ASIC Puppy AFL Don : yeah, right, that's a pain to wait many minutes... AFL Don : Hey, you're remembered, ASIC! AFL Don : LTNS! AFL Don : You've been missed! SPEEDLIMIT : Loading from a disk did have some advantages though ;) AFL Don : Whatcha been doing with yourself, all these years... AFL Don : Name one, Larry! SPEEDLIMIT : I had a good excuse for taking a lot of breaks back then ;) Jack 12345 : Got married, bought a house AFL Don : ...ooh, that'll do it! Jack 12345 : yeah, time is precious AFL Don : ...house payments do reorder one's priorities! AFA Fixit : And there's precious little free Jack 12345 : I used to spend hours OL each week, now I'm lucky if I get to look BCS Frank : Mortgages are -so- focusing. : Jack 12345 : at the computer once a week AFC Marvin : The wife also reorders one's priorities!!! NRMidland : ...Marvin...if I look at my ZipGSX cable, how can I tell if its the long or the short one? AFL Don : No comment... Jack 12345 : worse yet, I got a fixer-upper SPEEDLIMIT : <<-- I've been thinking about reordering the Wife... Marvin ;) LOL Jack 12345 : house that is, not the wife ;) AFA Fixit : Kate usually spends more time on the computer than I do. AFL Don : Is the ZIPGSX working? Then it's not too long... AFA Fixit : They're all fixer uppers. Some just don't look like one before you buy them. AFL Don : Actually, some of us wound up with cables so short that the card bends when everything's connected... AFC Marvin : NRM, the cable is barely long enough to get from the board to the socket it plugs into. As I recall Jack 12345 : I'm thinking about getting back on the GS a bit NRMidland : (Sheepishly) I have never been brave enough to install the durn thing (had it since 89 or 90) ;) AFC Marvin : the short cable dictated which slot the card was going to go into. You could not get it into any AFL Don : It's still a great computer... AFC Marvin : other slot because the ribbon cable was so short. It has been a long time since I looked at it but I SPEEDLIMIT : Midland... you got to do it :) It's a heck of a difference for sure :) Jack 12345 : My TWGS is acting a bit flaky... AFL Don : Hey, Mid, the ZIPGSX'll turn your 2GS into a real machine! My office machine is not accelerated, and AFL Don : it's slow motion... AFC Marvin : think my original cable was about three inches long. The short one was about an inch and a half long. Jack 12345 : what speed is the Zip running at? AFA Fixit : Well, after 11:00 here. I'm off. AFL Don : How's your power supply situation, Jack? That's the usual problem with a TWGS, assume the right PALs.. SPEEDLIMIT : Marvin.. so was mine.. I think I had like number 98 card that was ever sold SPEEDLIMIT : later Walt :) AFL Don : Mine's an 8, but that makes ALL the difference in world even so... Jack 12345 : seem to recall some talk of a Japanese company making 14 MHz AFA Fixit : Night folks. Jack 12345 : 665816s AFL Don : Night, Walt... NRMidland : I was so thrilled with a HD that I put off worrying about DMA. Zip told me a new vs. would cost $79.!! AFL Don : Also, there was a problem with a cable supplied with early TWGS's, AE used to replace 'em free, fixed SPEEDLIMIT : Jack.. for sure there is a 10MHz version out there that works, but I just can't Jack 12345 : My GS lives in a Baby AT case, 200W PS AFL Don : a lot of TWGS flakiness... SPEEDLIMIT : see spending the money unless I was loaded Jack 12345 : yeah I remember the BBLACK DOT cable, got one free AFL Don : Mid, just follow the instructions, be REALLY careful when inserting the plug into the AFL Don : motherboard. The pins on the plug are very brittle, if bent will break off. (I know!) Jack 12345 : the reason my TWGS is flaky is that I'm trying to run a 7 MHz cpu at 8 MHz AFC Marvin : My ZipGSX is also an 8 MHz. I have never felt the need to try for one of the faster ones. Jack 12345 : wondering if anyone knows where to get the faster 65816 SPEEDLIMIT : Don.. remember that person that came here one night that claimed that they Jack 12345 : WDC still in bz? SPEEDLIMIT : had made a ZIP into a 15 MHz ???? AFL Don : Western Design Center sold 'em Jack 12345 : biz AFL Don : I remember, Marvin... Didn't hear from him again... AFC Marvin : What was the fastest official Zip speed, 10 MHz? SPEEDLIMIT : Right :/ ya gotta be careful... BUT Jack 12345 : BurgerBill used to have a 13-MHz TWGS, using a WDC part AFL Don : I think that's the fastest speed they recommended... SPEEDLIMIT : Zip Inc. did have a ZIPGS that they would have sold me that ran at Jack 12345 : but I was hoping to get one of the newer parts AFC Marvin : I seem to remember 10 MHz being an upgrade that I never bought. SPEEDLIMIT : 17-MHz, but they wanted $1,000 bucks for it...., hence I don't have one ;) AFL Don : ...nothing I want to do that fast for that much! SPEEDLIMIT : Marvin.. you still can do it... they want $250 bucks though AFC Marvin : That 17 MHz must have been custom made. Jack 12345 : I really feel the resolution of the GS is its limiting factor AFL Don : 17 MHz must be awesome... SPEEDLIMIT : I was..., I sure was curious about it though };) Jack 12345 : Speed is nice, but give me a big screen AFL Don : ...that and the display's aspect ratio... Jack 12345 : I thought about building an el cheapo VGA card for gs once Jack 12345 : should've done it AFL Don : JP was really lusting after just such a card, a while back... SPEEDLIMIT : Jack.. someone supposedly had one made or so I thought I heard AFL Don : I think JP was trying to talk somebody into doing one... AFC Marvin : Speed, I guess the $250 was the reason I never bought the upgrade. Jack 12345 : anything ever come of that TurboRez thing? AFL Don : I think it's still cooking. I saw a demo at AEW last May that blew me away... SPEEDLIMIT : Marvin :) me neither ;) Jack 12345 : still?? AFL Don : ...last I heard Jack 12345 : that's amazing Jack 12345 : I'm gone two years, and haven't missed a thing SPEEDLIMIT : LOL AFL Don : What they had at AEW looked market-ready then, but it was presented as a what's coming demo... AFL Don : We were just waiting for you to come back! Jack 12345 : Doubt we'll ever see it hit the market, not when Apple's no longer Jack 12345 : selling //s AFL Don : ...the big thing, now, is the aggressive way that Quality Computer is bringing things together... Jack 12345 : the problem I had with the VGA idea was deciding SPEEDLIMIT : How's that Don ??? Jack 12345 : whether to try and support the older video modes Jack 12345 : or just go straight VGA Jack 12345 : older modes = lotsa work = higher price AFL Don : Right... Actually, betcha that most users interested couldn't care less about running old stuff... Jack 12345 : straight VGA = clunky switching = unhappy users Jack 12345 : you'd have to attempt to rewrite most of QD II to use the new mode SPEEDLIMIT : Well I think I'm going to call it a Night :) Jack 12345 : which would break most existing sw AFL Don : I 'spose... AFL Don : Yeah, I've gotta pull the big switch here, too... Work to do... SPEEDLIMIT : Night Jack, Frank, Don, Marvin, Midland :) AFC Marvin : I have to say goodnight too. I still have to drive home from work. If I don't get home soon my wife Jack 12345 : night all, maybe I'll see yah next week AFC Marvin : won't give me dinner. AFL Don : Seeya, Marvin (SPEEDLIMIT type Marvin, that is...) AFL Don : Don't miss dinner, Marvin! AFC Marvin : Ok, good night Don. Jack 12345 : <- NEVER misses dinner AFL Don : Goodnight! NRMidland : Adios and thanks for the tips.Son wants his computer back. Jack 12345 : goodbye and goodnight AFL Don : Good to have you with us, NRM... Hope you'll make it regularly with us! AFL Don : Good to see you again, Puppy! Don't stay away! Jack 12345 : I'll try to keep in touch, but time online is less time coding... AFL Don : Frank, you've been strangely silent tonight! AFL Don : ...know what you mean, Jack... Jack 12345 : I think he doesn't like me... BCS Frank : Been IMing like mad here AFL Don : That'll do it! BCS Frank : yup :) BCS Frank : Gotta head out myself... AFL Don : Well, I've gotta get busy here... So long, to you both, CU later... Jack 12345 : Acck! 11:30 AFL Don : poof... 3/14/94 8:23:56 PM Closing Log file.