2/28/94 6:24:01 PM Opening ÒChat Log 2/28/94Ó for recording. BCS Frank : Hi, Don AFL Don : Hi Frank... AFL Don : Tough time getting on tonight, started a half hour ago, just made it... BCS Frank : akk... you should move to Boston, where the linking's easy. :) AFL Don : Did some programming today, first time in a long time... BCS Frank : What language? AFL Don : One of my colleagues bought an ooooooooold 20-meg Sider, it had a program selector I wrote (Basic) about 12 years ago... Still on it, wanted me to change it so he could select newly-installed AppleWorks... Anyway, got it to work, except that it always quits to Bird's Better Bye, can't seem to get around it. BCS Frank : In BASIC? AFA Fixit : Hi guys BCS Frank : Walt, Hi! :) AFL Don : Hi Walt... AFL Don : Hello, Jud, Welcome to the Apple Hardware Forum Chat! BCS Frank : Jud, Hi :) JudM938 : HI y'all AFL Don : First time with us, Jud? BCS Frank : 20 Meg Sider running AW 4.0? Nice stretch? AFL Don : Yeah, right... Slow as molasses in Antarctica... AFL Don : That's an idea... BCS Frank : Think Byrd's Better Bye came in with ProDOS 1.9. JudM938 : Yes, I'm still learning to do this AFL Don : Jud, we're glad to have you with us... AFL Don : As soon as a few more assemble, we'll be under way with "Ask Herr Fixit", our regular feature... BCS Frank : Hmmm... I think you can remove BBY by going to slightly older ProDOS. JudM938 : Can someone explain to me which pins on the 8-pin DIN plugs (printer) are carrying info? AFL Don : ...might go back to 1.4... That was stable... BCS Frank : Pin out for Serial DIN? It's in the Printer manual, which is in the boxes which I've loaded in the basement for my move to new digs. AFL Don : I don't have docs handy for pinouts, either... :( AFA Fixit : One moment while I turn around to the bookshelf. BCS Frank : Jud, have you got an ImageWriter? JudM938 : I guess I looked everywhere but there. I have an HP deskwriter, IIGS and Mac Performa 450. AFL Don : What is that you're trying to do that you can't do? AFA Fixit : The Mac and GS printer and modem port pinouts are as follows: BCS Frank : Paul, Hi :) JudM938 : I want to build a switch to switch the printer between the two computers. Appletalk is too memory expensive PaulBZ : Hi Frank AFL Don : hello, Paul! Welcome to the Apple Hardware Forum Chat! PaulBZ : Hi all AFA Fixit : pin 1 Handshake out, pin 2 Handshake in, pin 3 Transmit Data minus, pin 4 Signal Ground... AFL Don : Your switch oughta just switch pin 1 to pin 1/pin 1, etc., I'd think... You won't want to translate AFA Fixit : pin 5, receive data minus, pin 6, transmit data plus, pin 7 DCD input to serial controller chip, pin 8 receive data plus. Surprisingly, the data-minus lines are used for serial data and pins JudM938 : Thank, that should help. AFL Don : pins in the switching... BCS Frank : There is one twist.... BCS Frank : or untwist.... BCS Frank : not to use two printer cables in a row. AFL Don : Good point, Frank! BCS Frank : JudM938 : Well, I had assumed (apparently incorrectly) that only about four wires were needed. BCS Frank : use printer cables from the printer to the switch box and AFA Fixit : 8 and 9 are not usually used. BCS Frank : straight through cables from the box to the computer.... BCS Frank : ... or vise versa. PaulBZ : Got my init problems straightened out without a new power supply. AFL Don : Great, Paul... What was the problem? BCS Frank : Threw out the extra cards, Paul? :) BCS Frank : AFL Don : ....The eighth card is almost always extra... PaulBZ : No, just rearranged the order of some of the directories and had to get rid of DT utils AFL Don : ...shrewd move! BCS Frank : .... Right... we need a commercial card barn for the Apple II. :) AFA Fixit : Only transmit and receive minus, signal ground, and the handshake signals are used. Normally, only the PaulBZ : Actually brought the card count up to eight. AFA Fixit : handshake signals are used with high speed modems and printers. BCS Frank : Slots one through seven, memory card, and did you count the BCS Frank : "no-slot" HyperStudio dig. card? PaulBZ : No piggyback on CV Tech memory card BCS Frank : Ahhh... PaulBZ : Got the number. Does it work??? BCS Frank : Must be cozy on a cold Winter eve. :) AFA Fixit : Total card count can now go to 9 in a 7 slot II. BCS Frank : PaulBZ : I was thinking of adding one of the card extender boxes they used to have PaulBZ : for the II's if I could find one. BCS Frank : Is anyone producing/updating the FingerPrint-GS card these days? AFA Fixit : I think not. BCS Frank : Aren't there card extender barns made for the Laser-128? AFL Don : Not that I've heard... AFA Fixit : I wouldn't do that Paul, a whole new can of worms. PaulBZ : Is the Quickie scanner still available and what is its current price? BCS Frank : I'd like to get a most recent ROM chip for my '89 FingerPrint-GS card. BCS Frank : Quickie is not only still produced, they're coming up with a color filter attachment for color scanning. AFL Don : Not sure on the price, but it's still available... Plus with color scans soon, I hear! BCS Frank : Quality, among others, has it... bundled with PaulBZ : Any chance it will go to 8 or 8 1/2 inches? BCS Frank : OCR software too if you want. AFL Don : Try screen name QualityCom for more info... BCS Frank : The scanner will take 8" wide in two passes.... BCS Frank : the color scanning jig is set up BCS Frank : to allow accurate side by side scans. AFL Don : You can do merge scans with the new Quickie software, works pretty good... AFL Don : ...You do two passes, slide 'em around until they match. JudM938 : Does Quickie send updates to owners? I haven't heard of any lately AFL Don : Hi Kate! TallStuff : Hiya Don :) AFL Don : The Quickie update to 3.1 sells for a modest fee, but is well worth it... BCS Frank : They sell upgraded software... Lower cost than buying all new software. BCS Frank : Kate, Hi :) TallStuff : Hi there Frank :) AFA Fixit : {{Kate}} TallStuff : {{Walt}} AFL Don : Quickie 3.0 --> Quickie 3.1 was a major rewrite, noticeably improved performance... JudM938 : Better go. Thanks for the information. I'll be back. AFL Don : Please hurry back, Jud! BCS Frank : See ya, Jud :) BCS Frank : Any rumors of the Ethernet card ever being released for the Apple II? AFL Don : None that I've heard, Frank... BCS Frank : :: sigh :: PaulBZ : regarding Ethernet would it be possible to use one of the SCSI port BCS Frank : .. It was supposed to come out with a read/write system translator for MS-DOS. AFA Fixit : Not recently at least... PaulBZ : ether net boxes? BCS Frank : Hmm... hardware might work, Paul, I'll bet it's AFA Fixit : No Paul, that would take a serious device driver. BCS Frank : the driver we're missing. PaulBZ : That might be the avenue to approach as the hardware exists. BCS Frank : Those drivers seem to be the bottleneck for using BCS Frank : a bunch of neat hardware. BCS Frank : How hard is it to write them? AFL Don : ...that often seems to be the case... AFA Fixit : Fax modems, ethernet adapters... PaulBZ : What do the developers have to say? BCS Frank : Absolute reference graphic tablets, the "Un-Mouse...." BCS Frank : The commercial ones I've talked to have said BCS Frank : a) not enough market and b) it's a third party opportunity. BCS Frank : Kind of like the CD-ROM front ends that we're finally getting. BCS Frank : Chuck, Hi :) AFL Don : Hello, Chuck! Welcome to the Apple Hardware Forum Chat! AFA Fixit : Hiya Chuck! ChuckS1073 : Thank you, glad to be here AFL Don : How about giving us the word on the Dvorak keyboard fix you made? ChuckS1073 : OK! AFL Don : ....sounds interesting! ChuckS1073 : I got the idea from a publication by DataMost "Apple Thesaurus" ChuckS1073 : I have a student who has only finger stubs on his left hand ChuckS1073 : I knew he would never be able to handle QWERTY ChuckS1073 : I discovered Dvorak through Mavis Beacon. By the way after two years he is ChuckS1073 : typing over 200 wpm AFL Don : Wow, is that ever terrific! ChuckS1073 : The Thesaurus made a big thing over the "C" having Dvorak. They went on to say AFA Fixit : About 10 times my typing speed! ChuckS1073 : "for you IIe owners, don't worry, it's built in on the IIe. ChuckS1073 : That was all they said. ChuckS1073 : I made a few calls to the list in the back of Mavis. Found out that no one ChuckS1073 : is building conversion kits anymore. But one techie in AZ said that he seemed ChuckS1073 : to remember that at one time they made one and it was extremely easy to do. AFL Don : ....that was news to me. Funny Apple didn't promote it for the //e... ChuckS1073 : He couldn't remember how it was done but gave me a few pointers. AFA Fixit : An etch on the logic board? BCS Frank : It's in the gs too... but it never seemed to be a popular selling point. ChuckS1073 : Don, There is a lot "Apple" doesn't know -- I have found out through calls ChuckS1073 : Nope, not an etch! ChuckS1073 : On the mother board the IC labeled C68 is the Keyboard ROM BCS Frank : Just resolder all the keyboard connections? :) BCS Frank : Andy, Hi! :) ChuckS1073 : As you look at it with the base toward you. Count the legs on the left from AFA AndyW : Hi Frank.. BCS Frank : Marvin! :) AFC Marvin : Hello everyone! AFL Don : Hello, Marvin! ChuckS1073 : top to bottom. Count up six. Remove the chip carefully, and gently bend that ChuckS1073 : leg out. If you have a spare toggle switch (3-pole), attach a wire to the leg ChuckS1073 : and run the wire to the center tap of the switch. Attach another wire to one ChuckS1073 : of the outer taps and back down to the base. The other outer tap is soldered ChuckS1073 : to the mother board in the lower left-hand corner to the second silvered place. BCS Frank : So it gives the IIe the same toggle switch as is on the IIc? Neat! AFA Fixit : That leg must be the upper address bit. Pulled the same trick with Apple IIe enhancement kits. BCS Frank : You should post your own tech note on that. ChuckS1073 : Gently return the chip to the base.... and Eureka...instant Dvorak/QWERTY ChuckS1073 : The best part is that you can switch in mid-stream!!!! AFL Don : Yes, Chuck, for sure! A real boon to anyone who can profit from Dvorak... AFL Don : Yeah, but can you switch your mind in mid stream!!! ChuckS1073 : I am currently about 350 wpm on Dvorak with no errors! BCS Frank : Isn't there a company that makes stick on key caps too? ChuckS1073 : On the IIe all you have to do is pop the key caps off BCS Frank : Hmmm... on the gs standard keyboard each row has a different geometry. AFA Fixit : I've got to try switching to Dvorak. AFA Fixit : Have to fall back on key cap labels. BCS Frank : Mavis Beacon's manual has one of the best write ups I've seen on Dvorak and BCS Frank : it's history. AFC Marvin : Chuck, 350 WPM is impressive. I guess it is true that the QWERTY system was designed to slow a AFL Don : 350 WPM! That's amazing... ChuckS1073 : Some keyboards have different heights for each row. I tried to switch a GS. AFC Marvin : typist down. ChuckS1073 : Very definitely. The old mechanical typewriters constantly jammed. Remington BCS Frank : They -had- to slow down the typist back then... to cut down jamming. ChuckS1073 : came up with the "Quiet Writer" in the 30s, but it didn't sell. .. Bosses ChuckS1073 : couldn't hear the "girls" working. ChuckS1073 : It is really amazing when you use Dvorak. You feel you could type for hours... AFC Marvin : Even with QWERTY I used to jam my old mechanical typewriter. Sure glad not to have to use it now. AFL Don : How long did it take you to switch to Dvorak, Chuck? ChuckS1073 : your fingers and hands move very little. Marvin, sometimes when I'm using AFA Fixit : I've learned to touch type with the Sholes keyboard after years online, but at no great speed. ChuckS1073 : QWERTY, as I am now I still jam the keys!! AFL Don : ...and is it a problem when you have to keyboard on a QWERTY away from the Dvorak? BCS Frank : ChuckS1073 : Don, I am a violinist as well as a violist. Now, while they are both played ChuckS1073 : the same way they read in different musical clefs. It usually takes me a few] AFC Marvin : I still have fond memories of using a Teletype machine on ham radio. I became good at getting in the rhythm of the 60 WPM machine, even with the relatively stiff mechanical keyboards. ChuckS1073 : seconds to shift gears. Like a foreign language AFL Don : I play several different woodwind instruments, took a while to be able to switch... AFL Don : What do you teach, Chuck? ChuckS1073 : I teach an approach to music for young children developed by the late German ChuckS1073 : composer Carl Orff... as well as teach strings privately. AFC Marvin : Ahhh! reminds me of Carmina Burana. ChuckS1073 : I have another goodie that Apple said couldn't be done. I figured how to slow ChuckS1073 : down the IIc+ through Basic. AFA Fixit : I'd expect that a poke should do it. ChuckS1073 : Can you imagine the frustration for a young child trying to do it through ChuckS1073 : key presses? ChuckS1073 : Actually, all the code is embodied in the Zip Chip programs. AFL Don : Speed = n, where n = 0 --> 255 works for me, from basic... ChuckS1073 : Do I dare say that there is a strong resemblance in the speed gate arrays?? AFA Fixit : Just following an existing standard. ;_ ChuckS1073 : Don, Yes that would work also. I just incorporated a machine id which not only ChuckS1073 : ids the c+ but also the gs and borrowed an article from the late, lamented ChuckS1073 : A+InCider that slows the gs down as well as identifies the machine. I added ChuckS1073 : this to my generic startup for the computer lab I developed at my school which ChuckS1073 : is a combination of IIes, IIc+s and one gs. ChuckS1073 : This way I can use the same software for all machines. It asks at bootup if ChuckS1073 : you want standard speed as well as telling the child which machine they are on. ChuckS1073 : I really love my e but Quality Computer have me drooling over their latest sale AFL Don : ...I'd think the key debouncer protection in the Apple would limit typing speeds, when pushed with AFL Don : the Dvorak possibilities... ChuckS1073 : The only thing I would really miss is my Zip-8 ChuckS1073 : Don, I haven't noticed any problems so far with my e in this respect AFL Don : Very interesting! ChuckS1073 : Speaking of speed, do you know the AppleWorks macro (NAUG) for checking typing ChuckS1073 : speeds on the gs? AFL Don : ....don't have it, but it's probably a popular macro... ChuckS1073 : I reworked it for the e with a No Slot Clock. Works like a charm. I also ChuckS1073 : added an estimated wpm for it. ChuckS1073 : They also have a macro for creating monthly biorhythms -- written in an older ChuckS1073 : version which I updated for TAPL 4.2 ChuckS1073 : (Love that AppleWorks) ChuckS1073 : Bill Carver at Quality gave me a really neat glossary for changing SuperFonts AFL Don : That's for sure... ChuckS1073 : It works faster than the PickFonts -- which hasn't been upgraded yet. ChuckS1073 : Have you-all tried the latest AppleWorks yet? ChuckS1073 : I was a beta tester for it and couldn't believe what they did!! AFL Don : Yes, Chuck... AFL Don : It's amazing... AFL Don : I'm not using the new rev yet, since I don't own UM4.3 so far, need macros for grade handling. ChuckS1073 : If one can do without WYSIWYG (except through SuperFonts), I can't see how AFL Don : ...So, although I own AW 4.0.2, I'm not using it yet, but hope to soon... ChuckS1073 : you could want more ChuckS1073 : Don, I'm using the "TI&E??" version for my grades in a spreadsheet and it works ChuckS1073 : like a champ. I made some mods to incorporate our own grading scale, and love ChuckS1073 : it. The best part is that it makes allowance for a missed assignment/grade ChuckS1073 : that is not yet a ")" ChuckS1073 : Correction : that is not yet a "0" ChuckS1073 : And if you have a Zip chip -- you are walking in tall cotton ChuckS1073 : If I remember that grade spreadsheet is included in the AppleWorks pkg.?? AFL Don : I use a much-more intricate spreadsheet of my own devising, that does a lot of specialized things for AFL Don : me... ChuckS1073 : Care to expound??? AFL Don : It'd bore all the non-teachers here, I'm sure... ChuckS1073 : OK AFA Fixit : I give a maximum of two exam per course, so I don't have much to calculate. Do it on a calculator. ChuckS1073 : By the way, I am new to AOL, and I tried an upgrade for the No.slot.clock w/ AFA Fixit : Oops! Missed and "s" there. ChuckS1073 : Zip and couldn't get it to work. Anyone comment? AFL Don : LOTS of exams, quizzes, labs, etc., plus wildcard exams that reset averages for late learners... Dragoneyes : of some good game maker programs for the mac AFL Don : Hello Dragoneyes... Welcome to the Apple Hardware Forum Chat! ChuckS1073 : Earlier, someone said I should post a tech note on the Dvorak. Where would I ChuckS1073 : post it? AFL Don : I didn't receive all of your comment... AFA Fixit : You teach a much longer course, Don. I do 1 week courses. More than two quizzes is grating. AFL Don : Write a short article, upload to the AHW library, we'll post and promote it! AFL Don : Right, Walt... 18 weeks for mine... ChuckS1073 : You got it! AFA Fixit : In the "New files section" AFL Don : Terrific! BCS Frank : That's a good place to post. :) ChuckS1073 : Length? ChuckS1073 : About what I told you? AFL Don : 1500 words or less... About what you've told us'd be great! ChuckS1073 : OK AFL Don : Hello, Marcus! Welcome to the Apple Hardware Forum Chat! AFA Fixit : Hiya Marcus! Welcome to the Apple II Hardware late show. MarcusD744 : Hello Don, thanks. AFL Don : First time with us? I don't recognize your screen name! ChuckS1073 : A hand of Dvorak, anyone??? AFL Don : hello GOzi! Welcome to the Apple Hardware Forum Chat... GOzi : Hi I'm new at this, what are the rules? AFL Don : Just a bunch of good friends here, Gozi... AFL Don : just join right in! ChuckS1073 : Don, would you or anyone know if anyone is still making that slot extender for ChuckS1073 : the IIe? I need to constantly switch my slot 2 between two cards (modem and a AFL Don : You might call Alltech, pick up a used one... Or advertise here on AO in CLASSIFIEDS... ChuckS1073 : specialized sound card for Temporal Acuity programs I use in my teaching GOzi : I have a IIgs that won't reset from the keyboard anymore, anyone have any ideas? AFA Fixit : Could be the cable or the reset switch. BCS Frank : Have you tried with a different keyboard? AFL Don : Sounds to me, first guess, that you have a bad ADB connector on the keyboard... BCS Frank : Any ADB keyboard will do for a test swap. AFL Don : It's very common. The connector needs to be resoldered to the pc board when this happens... AFL Don : Does the keyboard work normally otherwise? BCS Frank : Another test... try reversing the cables on the keyboard... move the BCS Frank : mouse to the other side, etc. AFL Don : Could be a key switch, I suppose... AFL Don : Frank's suggestion will work around a bad connector, since both connectors aren't likely to AFL Don : be bad... ChuckS1073 : Catch you later. Thanks for inviting me, Don... Chuck AFA Fixit : The reset line is hardwired to a pin on the ADB port. AFL Don : Hey, Chuck, thanks for all the good info! And glad to have you with us! Please make it a regular AFL Don : event! ChuckS1073 : Will do!! AFA Fixit : Well, it's bedtime here. Night folks! BCS Frank : Night Walt :) AFC Marvin : Nite Walt. AFL Don : yeah, it's getting late here, too... Got two tests to write tonight... AFL Don : G'Nite, Walt! BCS Frank : Best of luck to your students, Don! :) AFL Don : They need it, this semester, Frank! BCS Frank : I'm off too..... BCS Frank : Not enough hours each day. :( AFL Don : Good to see ya again as always, Frank... AFC Marvin : Goodnight Frank. AFL Don : yeah, tell me about it! BCS Frank : Always a pleasure :) BCS Frank : Bye! :) AFL Don : :) AFL Don : GOzi, does your 2GS pass the built-in diagnostic test? AFL Don : If so, your problem is almost certainly in the keyboard 2/28/94 8:08:11 PM Closing Log file.