2/14/94 9:32:34 PM Opening ÒChat Log 2/14/94Ó for recording.


BCS Frank  : Hi Walt!  :)
AFA Fixit  : Hi Frank!
BCS Frank  : Am I early or is the world late?
AFA Fixit  : 9:35 by my clock.
BCS Frank  : The odds are the world is late, of course.  :)
AFA Fixit  : Hi SEETKS.
SEETKS     : Hey, gents.
BCS Frank  : Hi, SEETKS  :)
AFA Fixit  : Welcome to the Apple II Hardware chat.
SEETKS     : Got a question about my serial ports.
BCS Frank  : <Putting on serial hat.>
SEETKS     : Is there anything I can do(aside from a new mother 
             board) to repair a modem
SEETKS     : port that got hit by lightning? 
BCS Frank  : Lightning?  Is -only- the port damaged?
SEETKS     : rom 3, BTW.
SmilinRich : Hi all
SEETKS     : yes.
BCS Frank  : SmilinRich, Hi  :)
SEETKS     : Hi, SMilin
BCS Frank  : How localized the damage?  Chips burnt, or just the 
             socket?
SEETKS     : yeah, I have to use the printer port for everything.
AFA Fixit  : With a IIgs, there's not much to do but replace the 
             logic board unless you can find someone that does
AFA Fixit  : component level repair on surface mount components.
SEETKS     : I'm not sure about chips being burnt.  I haven't seen 
             any problems at all with
SEETKS     : the rest of the system.
SmilinRich : I'm on a clone right now but I have come into an
             Apple 2 gs and don't know what to do with it.
BCS Frank  : Congrats, Rich, you've got good times coming!  :)
SmilinRich : I have no software for it. 
SEETKS     : say, SmilinRich... looking to sell that gs? ;-)
SmilinRich : It needs a keyboard cable.
SmilinRich : Maybe
AFA Fixit  : Keyboard cables are easy. Same as a Mac.
AFA Fixit  : Any old ADB cable will do.
BCS Frank  : SEETKS, what Walt says is correct... most dealers 
             will only swap out the board
SmilinRich : It has a color monitor and two drives
AFA Fixit  : For software, a Quality computer catalog could be 
             useful.
AFA Fixit  : Why do you say maybe on the keyboard cable, Rich.
SEETKS     : hmmm... I don't think I want to invest anymore in the 
             system.
SmilinRich : Maybe was regarding the sale.
SEETKS     : seeing as the computer runs fine beside the port. 
SEETKS     : Ok, let's say I wanted to build a card for my 
             system... I've got the hardware
BCS Frank  : There is substantial GS software avail. very cheap to 
             next to free.
SEETKS     : ref.. do I need anything else?
SmilinRich : Where do I get this software.
SmilinRich : Does it read IBM disks?
SmilinRich : Fixit, you mentioned a Quality catalog?
AFA Fixit  : Yep, let's see if I can find the number for quality.
SEETKS     : Well... thanks for your time, gents.  Hasta!
BCS Frank  : Hmmm...both good questions... hard to choose.
BCS Frank  : Rich, you can get AOL Apple II software for free from 
             AOL... go to SERVICE or FRIENDS on AOL to order a
             copy.
AFA Fixit  : Quality computer is at 800-777-3642 unless they've 
             changed it recently. You can order a catalog.
AFA Fixit  : I believe the GS can read IBM 3.5" disks if you have 
             a SuperDrive.
BCS Frank  : GS system software is avail. for cost of disks from
BCS Frank  : some user groups, or downloadable here on AOL, or
BCS Frank  : you can buy from a dealer with tech manual.
BCS Frank  : HyperCard GS, one of -the- most powerful programs
BCS Frank  : for the GS is about to be available from Apple on the 
             same basis as
BCS Frank  : the system software.
BCS Frank  : User groups, AOL and other electronic sources have 
             loads of software.
BCS Frank  : Quality Computer is running a 50% off sale on major 
             GS software.
BCS Frank  : And some folks are selling off their GS systems... 
             great prices
BCS Frank  : for buyers out there.
BCS Frank  : Marvin, Hi!  :)
AFC Marvin : Good evening all!
BCS Frank  : IBM disks... you might consider getting 
             Crossworks...
BCS Frank  : It's a software & cable combo that allows you to
BCS Frank  : connect a PC and an Apple II and transfer AppleWorks 
             files
BCS Frank  : to standard PC formats, and vice versa.
SmilinRich : I can download online here? Should I use Double 
             Density?
SmilinRich : If I have two disks which is boot disk?
BCS Frank  : Rich you mean download onto your GS, or onto your PC?
SmilinRich : PC
SmilinRich : I can't boot the GS, no software of any kind.
BCS Frank  : Ahh... the AOL software will boot on the GS...
BCS Frank  : .... the AOL/Apple II software that is.
BCS Frank  : Where do you live?
SmilinRich : From an IBM disk?
SmilinRich : Rochester NY
BCS Frank  : No, not from an IBM disk.
TallStuff  : *Thump Thud Crash Bang*
SmilinRich : Afraid you were gonna say that
BCS Frank  : Here's the sequence... 1) order Apple II/AOL 3.5" 
             disk from AOL, you can do this online tonight. 
SmilinRich : OK
BCS Frank  : 2) Then you can download on your GS, using a modem 
             connected to your GS.
AFL Don    : :) 
BCS Frank  : Do you have an external Hayes compatible modem?
BCS Frank  : Hayes  ^^
SmilinRich : nope! 
BCS Frank  : ooops...
SmilinRich : Got an old 300 baud from my C_64
BCS Frank  : A modem card for the GS?
SmilinRich : no!
BCS Frank  : Sigh....  What modem are you using on your PC?
SmilinRich : I gotta try this thing out now I'm getting curious. 
SmilinRich : 14400 Zoom internal
BCS Frank  : Well, a 1200 Bd modem can be had for $60 or so...
BCS Frank  : and 2400 for not much more. 
BCS Frank  : It can also serve as a spare modem for other 'puters 
             as well.
SmilinRich : what kind of memory does the GS have
BCS Frank  : You most likely have either 256K or 1 Meg on the 
             motherboard...
BCS Frank  : Expandable to 8 Meg max.
SmilinRich : Also is the monitor good for anything else.
BCS Frank  : I'd recommend a 4 Meg board... very cheap now... 
             Quality and others have them.
AFA Fixit  : The monitor works with absolutely nothing else.
SmilinRich : Wow, I thought this was more like a C-64.
BCS Frank  : The monitor is GS specific.... also you can use an 
             Apple IIe monitor, or
BCS Frank  : a regular TV monitor from the RCA video jack on the 
             GS, but the graphics will
BCS Frank  : be lower quality.
AFA Fixit  : Apple has never made anything like the C-64.
SmilinRich : Did I say something wrong :)
BCS Frank  : Nope.... but you've got
BCS Frank  : a lot of pleasant surprises.
BCS Frank  : The Apple GS is becoming almost a secret computer... 
             it has abilities that
BCS Frank  : lots of Macs and PCs lack... and an ease of use and 
             expansion beyond
BCS Frank  : anything else.
BCS Frank  : <I'm an Apple IIgs fan.>    :)
SmilinRich : It shows :}
AFL Don    : That's for sure...  I've got a choice between my 
             PB170 and my 2GS to a lot of my schoolbiz, and...
             there's no comparison.  The 2GS wins hands down for a 
             lot of jobs...  With plenty of memory and an
             accelerator card, the 2GS is awesome...
SmilinRich : Will it accept a hard drive?
BCS Frank  : Sure will  :)
BCS Frank  : The formula is : external SCSI hard drive.
AFL Don    : You bet.  We have access to one of the best deals 
             imaginable, a RamFAST SCSI controller, that makes
SmilinRich : Need anything special for a controller.
AFC Marvin : Sure will Rich.  I have a 105 mb hard drive on my 
             IIGS.  That along with an accelerator card makes
BCS Frank  : However there are internal hard drives for the GS; I 
             prefer external.
AFC Marvin : my IIGS boot real fast.
AFL Don    : the hard drive access like RAM access...  You need 
             seat belts and a crash helmet, it's so fast...
BCS Frank  : You'll need a SCSI control card... I recommend the 
             Apple High Speed SCSI card
AFL Don    : <---Partial to the RamFAST, myself...
AFC Marvin : I am using the RamFAST card with my hard drive.
SmilinRich : Don, Where do I get this and how much
BCS Frank  : Either will serve you well....
SmilinRich : I feel sticker shock coming on.
SmilinRich : :}
BCS Frank  : The SCSI cards are, what, about $100 when you buy a 
             hard drive?
AFL Don    : Try Quality Computers (Screen-name QualityCom), or 
             TMS Peripherals...
BCS Frank  : Of course you may find some bargains... ck the 
             CLASSIFIEDS on AOL.
AFL Don    : I think the RamFAST's are more expensive, so the 
             Hi-Speed SCSI might be more cost effective, if 
SmilinRich : Good idea Frank!
AFL Don    : you're on a budget... 
AFC Marvin : I purchased both my hard drive and RamFAST card from 
             TMS Peripherals.
BCS Frank  : <I'm sorry, I'd have the prices but I'm moving, all 
             my catalogs are boxed>. 
AFL Don    : Good idea not to go with the old Apple SCSI card, 
             though, I think...
AFL Don    : ...even if you find a used one at a low price...
BCS Frank  : I'm using an old (slow) SCSI drive, an old (slow) 
             "Rev C Apple SCSI card and 
BCS Frank  : an unaccelerated Apple IIgs... I still get decent 
             speed.
BCS Frank  : Anything more and you'll fly.]
AFL Don    : Guess you're the exception that proves the rule, 
             Frank!  :)
BCS Frank  : <And I use AppleWorks a lot too.>  :)
SmilinRich : I'm on a DX 2 - 66 right now so this is a whole new 
             world to me.
AFL Don    : AppleWorks Classic is inherently faster, 'cause the 
             text-based operation makes the code tighter...
BCS Frank  : Also AppleWorks responds very well to increased 
             memory... and I've got
BCS Frank  : 4 megs.
AFC Marvin : Rich, I missed the beginning but assume you have 
             picked up a used IIGS.  I wonder if it has the 
AFL Don    : <--6 megs here, but that's overkill...  Still, it's 
             nice.  I always keep an 800K RamDisk for copying..
AFC Marvin : original power supply or one of the after market 
             heavy duty supplies?
AFL Don    : Since I only have one floppy drive, that helps...
SmilinRich : It was given to me by someone who didn't know what 
             they had. 
SmilinRich : which made two of us :)
AFL Don    : You might like it better'n your DX 2-66!
AFC Marvin : Sounds like it was a good deal.  I mention the power 
             supply because a IIGS with a lot of cards
AFC Marvin : added to it have been known to start giving 
             intermittent problems from power supply overload.
AFC Marvin : The solution is to replace the power supply with a 
             heavy duty one that will carry the load.  You
BCS Frank  : One other accessory that'll really make your GS 
             productive... get
BCS Frank  : connected to other Apple II users....a user group is 
             best... and
AFC Marvin : will probably not have this problem unless the slots 
             are filled up with various cards.
BCS Frank  : of course come here often on AOL!  :)
AFL Don    : Also, check out Shareware Solutions, a new magazine 
             by Joe Kohn, that'll put you in touch with all the
AFL Don    : neat new software being written for the 2GS (as 
             shareware...)
AFC Marvin : When my power supply became overloaded I looked in 
             the Classifieds on 
SmilinRich : I just pulled it out of the closet. There is no extra 
             power supply.
AFC Marvin : AOL and found a like new one for $75.  
BCS Frank  : Yup, $30, great subscription price, well worth it.
BCS Frank  : The power supply is internal, but removable.
AFC Marvin : The power supply is internal.  The original ones will 
             probably have Apple's name on them.  The 
BCS Frank  : It's just a box that unclips... very clean. 
AFL Don    : The one you have'll work ok until you start adding 
             lots of extra cards inside...
AFC Marvin : heavy duty ones were usually made by AE (Applied 
             Engineering).
AFL Don    : The aftermarket power supplies are always painted 
             flat black, the OEM supplies are shiny ...
SmilinRich : It looks like there is a disk stuck in the 3.5 drive.
BCS Frank  : Have you got a paper clip?
AFL Don    : There's a little hole in the pushbutton eject knob.  
             Stick a paper clip in that hole, push.  The disk
BCS Frank  : Hi, Gary!  :)
SmilinRich : Yup 
AFL Don    : will probably come right out..
AFL GaryJ  : Hi Frank!
AFL Don    : Hello, Gary...
AFL GaryJ  : Hi Don
AFC Marvin : Hello Gary!
BCS Frank  : <Unbend the paper clip first>   :)
SmilinRich : its out 
SmilinRich : says curriculum.
BCS Frank  : Or you can power up the system and drive, then use 
             the drive eject button.
SmilinRich :  doubt its bootable
BCS Frank  : Probably a text or database file.
BCS Frank  : No other disks came with the GS?
AFC Marvin : Hmmm... curriculum, sounds like the last user was a 
             teacher.  Probably not a bootable disk.
BCS Frank  : Is the GS right there?  Can you power it up?
SmilinRich : Just tried boot, it says data disk, not startup.
AFL Don    : One thing you'll want to check out as soon as you get 
             more memory, GS/OS 6.0.1...  You can download it
SmilinRich : blue screen with text
AFL Don    : here from America Online.  It'll give you a better 
             finder than the Macs, better functions too...
AFA Fixit  : You can order a bootable America Online software disk 
             with the PC, then download GS/OS 6.0.1
SmilinRich : What do you mean finder
AFL Don    : You can change all the colors to meet your 
             preferences, using the control panel...  The finder
AFL Don    : is like Windows for the PC...
SmilinRich : I have never used a Mac either. 
BCS Frank  : "Finder" is your central go-fetch launcher 
             application... a little like Windows
AFA Fixit  : If your using Windows. Think of the Finder as and 
             integrated Program Manager and File Manager.
AFA Fixit  : With an overall cleaner interface.
SmilinRich : I  have CPM library for my user group here, any help?
BCS Frank  : There's another feature you can check right now... the 
             control panel.
SmilinRich : no Keyboard cable Frank
BCS Frank  : akk... scratch that idea.  :(
BCS Frank  : But the ADB cables are cheap... any Mac will do.
BCS Frank  : By the way, you can use Mac keyboards too.
SmilinRich : I'm getting real interested now. Next thing you Know 
             Ill be charging stuff.
BCS Frank  : Well, any ADB Mac keyboard.
AFA Fixit  : Apple label keyboards at least. Not all third party 
             ADB keyboards for the Mac will work
BCS Frank  : Charge for charge, you can get a lot more power in GS 
             software now
BCS Frank  : than in Mac or PC software. 
SmilinRich : The keyboard is missing the key left of Z, and the 
             one right of 3 on keypad.
BCS Frank  : <And there are a -few- early model Mac keyboards that 
             aren't ADB>  :(
AFL Don    : ...that's for sure.  You'll probably want to look 
             into AppleWorks 4.0 from Quality, and also AppleWorks
AFL Don    : s GS, also from Quality.  (Developed by Claris, sold 
             to Quality recently...)
BCS Frank  : <By the way, Quality is continuing development of 
             new versions of both
BCS Frank  : AppleWorks and AppleWorks GS.>
BCS Frank  : What kind of computing would you like to do on your 
             GS?
AFL Don    : There's another outfit called Vitesse, with a lot of 
             niftiest for the Apple 2...  A scanner, for ex.
SmilinRich : Haven't a clue Frank.
BCS Frank  : I shoulda asked what kind do you want to do first?  
             :)
AFL Don    : Also, another group called WestCode has a dynamite 
             OCR package that has to be seen to be believed.
SmilinRich : I tend to build em, fix em, and get bored running em.
BCS Frank  : Ahhh... then you want to talk to a fellow on line by 
             the
SmilinRich : I enjoy the puzzles of making them work.
BCS Frank  : screen name of Airship.
BCS Frank  : He enjoys the challenge of making 'puters do really 
             neat things in]
AFL Don    : ...sounds like a guy I once knew who built stereo 
             amps, but didn't like music.  Watched 'scope...
AFL GaryJ  : :)
BCS Frank  : his chemical laboratory.... and he prefers Apple IIs. 
              :)
SmilinRich : :)
BCS Frank  : Seems the Apple II is so easy to get into, add to, 
             expand, program, etc.
SmilinRich : I like to tweak performance also. Try new stuff. I 
             write reviews for the User Group.
BCS Frank  : "The user group?
BCS Frank  : "
SmilinRich : I have dabbled in Basic. 
AFL Don    : There are so many neat, mature applications for the 
             Apple 2 that you might not get bored with it!
SmilinRich : PC User group called FROG
AFL Don    : ...very easy to program in basic for the Apple 2.
SmilinRich : First Rochester Osborne Group.
BCS Frank  : Ahhh.... ok.  :)
SmilinRich : Host of the 96th ranked BBS according to BoardWatch.
SmilinRich : nationally
SmilinRich : Any Osborne aficionados here.
AFL Don    : ...saw one once
BCS Frank  : Well... I did like the Osborne that was slightly 
             rebuilt....
AFA Fixit  : Used one once when my father was building video 
             interfaces for them.
BCS Frank  : .... had a GS system installed... a real GS-portable. 
              :)
AFL Don    : Rich, it sounds like you might have to drop a few 
             pennies to get the 2GS up an running, but I think
AFL Don    : you'll find the results to be really worth the 
             effort...
SmilinRich : I heard that the GS will run an older version of DOS. 
             Anything to it.
AFL GaryJ  : I've got to run... (Just dropped in to say "hi")  
             Goodnight!
BCS Frank  : 2 comments.....
SmilinRich : G'night
BCS Frank  : <Bye, Gary!>
AFL Don    : Sure thing...  The GS will run any of the older DOS 
             versions written for earlier Apple 2's
AFA Fixit  : The GS will run Apple DOS 3.3 and ProDos in addition 
             to GS/OS.
BCS Frank  : That's no relation to the later MS-DOS 3.3.
AFL Don    : The 2GS has an emulation mode that makes it, 
             effectively, into an Apple //e as required.
BCS Frank  : There is an MS-DOS card, the AE Transporter that runs 
             MS-DOS in the
BCS Frank  : Apple IIe or gs, about like an 8808.
SmilinRich : Will the II gs boot off either disk.
AFL Don    : Control panel sets the boot slot, or you can set it 
             to scan, and it'll boot the first bootable device
AFL Don    : it finds...
AFC Marvin : No, you have to boot off the Apple Dos disk then 
             switch to the PC Transporter mode.
SmilinRich : Cool!
AFL Don    : Did we tell you how to get into the control panel?
SmilinRich : Not yet.
AFL Don    : Hold down the Apple-Control-Escape keys at the same 
             time, then peel off the three keys quickly.
BCS Frank  : ahh.. right...
AFL Don    : That'll get you into the control panel where you can 
             set the clock, change all kinds of options,
BCS Frank  : But no keyboard cable.
AFL Don    : which are memorized in battery-backed ram.
AFL Don    : Oh, yeah, forgot about no keyboard cable.  That does 
             make the 2GS into a paperweight until you
AFL Don    : get one...
SmilinRich : what's the key left of Z, I haven't got a cap on it
AFC Marvin : Getting a keyboard cable is no problem.  A Mac 
             keyboard cable will work too.
SmilinRich : Shift?
AFA Fixit  : That's right, it's the shift key.
BCS Frank  : Yup, left shift key... you can use the right shift 
             key.  :)
AFC Marvin : What would be a good source for Rich to go to to get 
             replacement keytops?  
SmilinRich : Key feels like it works. Just missing cap 
AFL Don    : AllTech?
AFC Marvin : Rich, I bet you could get the missing keytops and a 
             keyboard cable from AllTech.
AFA Fixit  : I've a GS keyboard that has I could pull some keycaps 
             off of. Some others are broken, but the two
AFA Fixit  : missing on Riches are ok.
BCS Frank  : Good bet.... or try a friendly service dept... maybe 
             a busted keyboard.
BCS Frank  : ... or Walt.  :)
SmilinRich : There is a guy locally called the Mac Shack, Ill have 
             to drop in.
AFA Fixit  : Would be happy to see those old keycaps get some use.
AFA Fixit  : :_
SmilinRich : I can give you my address Fixit.
AFL Don    : Hello, Alaska, welcome to the Apple Hardware Forum 
             chat
Alaska7266 : :)\
AFA Fixit  : Just send me some e-mail. Probably have a spare 
             keyboard cable as well.
BCS Frank  : That demonstrates the other very special Apple II 
             feature....
BCS Frank  : .... the user community.
AFL Don    : ...that's for sure!
Alaska7266 : I have a LaserWriter, old.  It has about 11/m copies 
             through it.  My ? is
AFA Fixit  : Never throw anything out!
BCS Frank  : That alone makes the 'puter worth while.
Alaska7266 : What do I need to make it work on my CX
BCS Frank  : <Hmmm... Walt, you read National Geographics?>   :)
AFA Fixit  : Not lately, Frank.
Alaska7266 : Apple talk and 7.1 do not see it.
AFL Don    : Not sure, speaking for myself, Alaska, since this is 
             the Apple-2 area, but maybe Walt knows...
Alaska7266 : Sorry My mistake
AFA Fixit  : How are you physically connected to the printer.
AFL Don    : Somebody in MHW will know for sure, I suspect...
Alaska7266 : I have tried Net And Cable, both.
AFA Fixit  : Net and Cable?
SmilinRich : brb 
BCS Frank  : TBranchT, Hi!  :) 
AFL Don    : Hello, TBranch!  Welcome to the Apple Hardware Forum 
             Chat!
TBranchT   : Anybody know how to get a online host
Alaska7266 : Phone net:apple talk w/ a phone cable and a printer 
             cable. 
TBranchT   : I need to know to please
Alaska7266 : Is there a MacII forum?
AFL Don    : Did you ask in PC?
Alaska7266 : thanks
TBranchT   : No
AFA Fixit  : Hard to determine without a second Mac or printer.
TBranchT   : helloooooo
Alaska7266 : tried a plus no luck
AFL Don    : There is a set of forums for the Mac, with keywords 
             all starting with M, for example, MHW is Mac
BCS Frank  : "Online host" is usually a system message... you 
             might want a guide.
AFL Don    : Hardware, MOS is Mac Operating Systems, etc. 
AFA Fixit  : So the printer refuses to be seen by any Mac?
Alaska7266 : c ya:)=
TBranchT   : thanx
BCS Frank  : TBrachT, try the guides in the lobby.... they're very 
             helpful...
AFA Fixit  : Just as I was getting into the problem.
BCS Frank  : Ahh well.... at least you pointed him in a good 
             direction.  :)
AFL Don    : Well, I've gotta shove off...  
AFL Don    : Getting late...
BCS Frank  : Likewise....
SmilinRich : Bye, and thanks
BCS Frank  : Stay in touch, Rich!  :)
AFL Don    : Glad to make your acquaintance, Rich...  Stick with 
             us, we'll make a 2GSer out of you yet!
AFC Marvin : Keep us posted as to your progress with the IIGS 
             rich.
BCS Frank  :   :)
BCS Frank  : Night all, I'm off....
AFL Don    : G'Nite all...  See ya soon...
AFC Marvin : Time for me to say goodnight too.
AFA Fixit  : I'm outa here!
AFC Marvin : Good night all.
AFA Fixit  : I'll mail you a log Don.
AFL Don    : Ok, gotta run... Glad to have you back in this 
             country, Walt...
AFL Don    : CU...
AFA Fixit  : Well, I'm outa here. 
AFC Marvin : Goodnight Walt.