1/31/94 6:20:50 PM Opening "Chat Log 1/31/94" for recording. AFL Don : Hello, SROQUE... SROQUE : hi Don AFL Don : Welcome to the Apple Hardware Forum Chat... AFL Don : Guess you're the only one able to get online tonight.. AFL Don : First time in the chat? SROQUE : nice to see you somewhere other than UGF Yes AFL Don : ...Think you have me confused with AFL DonR... SROQUE : Yeah thanks for clearing that up AFL Don : I get lots of his mail... AFL Don : What computer do you use? SROQUE : GS as much as possible mac sometimes and DOS when forced to AFL Don : Same here, except for DOS... I've successfully avoided that so far... AFL Don : Prefer the GS, though... AFL Don : I tried really hard to duplicate what I do to manage teaching info, using my PowerBook... AFL Don : I can't come close to what I can do with AppleWorks, so I stayed with the 2GS.. SROQUE : What is your main teaching area AFL Don : Physics/math... AFL Don : Community College... SROQUE : My fiancee teaches math and physical science in 9th grade... SROQUE : she might want to talk to you AFL Don : Great! That's an important level... JaanaJ : hello AFL Don : I also, under another screen-name, honcho a physics section on America Online... AFL Don : hello, Jaana! AFL Don : Welcome to the Apple Hardware Forum Chat... slow start tonight... SROQUE : hi joana AFL Don : SROQUE, you might urge your fiancee to check out the Idea Exchange in the TIN area... JaanaJ : I have a Centris 650, JaanaJ : it does not have a FPU AFL Don : It's well hidden, but has some good tips for science teachers... AFL Don : Great, Jaana... SROQUE : thanks she has... AFL Don : That does limit you, without the math coprocessor... JaanaJ : yes JaanaJ : I can't use Adobe Dimensions JaanaJ : Ray Dream Designer AFL Don : One of my favorite programs is OrbiTrack, which won't run at all w/o the FPU... SROQUE : in fact she has ULed several lesson plans JaanaJ : KPT filters for Phototshop AFL Don : ...fun to plot orbits, etc... AFL Don : Might be time to add a coprocessor... Sure makes some things run faster... AFL Don : Hello, Larry... slow start tonight... JaanaJ : does anyone have ideas SROQUE : I recently got color it on that $8.95 deal its great JaanaJ : apple does not offer FPU for 650 AFL Don : If the programs are written to require the FPU, you'll have to add one to run 'em... FCP Sider : Hi Don, I spent 20 minutes trying to sign on. SROQUE : does AE make one for centris AFL Don : Hmmmm... Maybe somebody does... You might check in the Mac sections here to see if someone knows AFL Don : of one... AFL Don : Larry, I really didn't expect to get on at all tonight, based on the last few days... AFL Don : Beats me, SROQUE, I no longer follow AE since they abandoned the Apple-2 lineup... SROQUE : what seems to be the problem with getting on recently SROQUE : neither do I Don. Besides tech support once put me on hold about Vulcan... AFL Don : Too much success! AO is adding more capacity pronto, but now too many people want to come to the party... SROQUE : and I was forced to listen to ads for their Mac stuff AFL Don : ...AE's 900 number really cost 'em, big time. FCP Sider : I thought all the Centris 650 came with a FPU as part of the 040 processor. AFL Don : ...at $1/minute you listened to ads? JaanaJ : except the base model AFL Don : Don't know, Jaana... This is the Apple-2 area, not the Mac area, so we aren't really up on all the Mac stuff... SROQUE : I was having probolems with Vulcan and Superdrive. They were no help so I hung up JaanaJ : OK, thanks for the chat AFL Don : You're welcome to stay with us! AFL Don : I think the Vulcan should coexist ok with the Superdrive as long as you have right drivers installed.. FCP Sider : Another person who doesn't like A/E's 900 number! AFL Don : Will the person who likes it please stand up? FCP Sider : I've run a Vulcan 40 with a Super drive and have had no problems. SROQUE : It wouldn't. The only time SuperDrive worked is with Slot 7 changed from your card... AFL Don : Did you do a clean install of GS/OS 6.0.1? FCP Sider : The 900 number wouldn't be so bad if you could get some decent support. SROQUE : they thought it might be my Zip accelerator causing the problem AFL Don : ...that's passin' the buck for sure... FCP Sider : Did they tell you about the switch that controls the slot assignment for the Vulcan? AFL Don : that one's easy to check, just de-install the ZIP, try the Vulcan... SROQUE : Are you talking about pseudoslotting? FCP Sider : No, most of the Vulcans I've seen want to run from slot 7, there is a switch that allows the Vulcan .. FCP Sider : to run from any slot. AFL Don : That sounds like it might be away around your difficulty... SROQUE : never mentioned it. Is it in the manuals SROQUE : I got rid of Vulcan because of other problems with it. FCP Sider : Yes its in the manual. Sorry I don't remember off hand where. AFA AndyW : Hi Don.. AFL Don : Hello, Andy! AFL Don : Slow start tonight... must be tough getting on tonight... SROQUE : Hi andy!!!! AFL Don : This is supposed to Walt's night... He must be trying to get on! AFL Don : What's new, Andy! AFL Don : ? SROQUE : I'm just glad to see there are other Apple users out ther.... AFL Don : Lots of us! AFA AndyW : Not much.. Was just at ABF.. Wanted to say Hi to Craig, but it's a madhouse SROQUE : Apple thinks we are nonexistent AFA AndyW : over there! AFL Don : ...got news for Apple... AFA AndyW : They have 42 people over there in ABF! AFL Don : Wow... AFA AndyW : They had a full room for awhile.. AFA AndyW : Hi Bruce.. SROQUE : I used to get several system error 0911 messages on my Rom 01 GS... AFA AndyW : Heat BruceB9407 : Hi SROQUE : Any clue about that? General concensus seems to be heat AFA AndyW : Heat BruceB9407 : IS Power Filtered AFA AndyW : Also, make sure that the keyboard connectors are seated properly. SROQUE : Thought so. Seemed to get worse when the Kensington died SROQUE : thanks for the keyboard tip BruceB9407 : Try C/A Power Filter More Reliable AFL Don : Yes, heat is the 0911 culprit. The Kensington isn't quite enough cooling for some systems... AFL Don : Pull all the slot hatches on the back, that'll help. AFA AndyW : Remove the cover too.. SROQUE : Never thought of that one... BruceB9407 : A Little Much Dont You Think AFA AndyW : Nope SROQUE : dont want to remove the cover AFL Don : That's a good test, but you want to be really careful that nothing falls onto the motherboard! AFA AndyW : Pulling the hole covers sometimes is enough, but not most of the time.. BruceB9407 : Get A Boxer Fan Place Next To Cover Near Power Supply AFA AndyW : Teach the cat to stay away from the computer.. BruceB9407 : In A HEart BEat AFL Don : 78 degrees is the magic number for my 2GS... Hotter'n that, I've got problems... BruceB9407 : One Paw One Time Auta Do It SROQUE : good idea FCP Sider : I keep both of mine open and have never had a problem. AFA AndyW : Good way to teach a cat not to get on something is to get a few small mouse AFA AndyW : traps, set them on whatever you don't want the cat on, and they'll jump on it AFA AndyW : once more, then never again.. BruceB9407 : Do You Mean Mice AFA AndyW : (works for dogs too).. SROQUE : might not work.. cats name is mouse FCP Sider : works on people too! AFL Don : ...It'd work for me! BruceB9407 : Problem AFA AndyW : Nope.. Paw lands on mouse trap, trap snaps against cats leg, cat hits roof, AFA AndyW : lands on floor, never jumps up where the trap was again.. FCP Sider : just like in a cartoon. AFL Don : Might not be able to! BruceB9407 : System Bomb With Screen Saver Loaded] AFL Don : You probably have a conflict... SROQUE : right now am working on prospect of sharing external SCSI with Mac BruceB9407 : Correct But Where AFL Don : Try loading NDAs one at a time until you find the one that causes the difficulty... BruceB9407 : Did That No Luck AFL Don : I'm thinking about that, too, SROQUE... Shadow. AFA AndyW : Won't work.. Oratio : anyone every heard of a double ring disk? AFL Don : I'd suggest, forget the Screen Saver... AFA AndyW : Neither the Mac or the Apple have heard of bus arbitration.. AFL Don : In what context, Oratio? BruceB9407 : Question 2.1 After Dark Not Compatible With SYs 7.1 SROQUE : probably. my debate is SCSI T cable or small network Oratio : as a floppy disk. AFA Fixit : Hi folks! Sorry I'm late. FCP Sider : After Dark is a Mac program. AFL Don : Hello, Walt! Glad you were able to get on! BruceB9407 : I Know That But No Third Party Files In after Dark SROQUE : SCSI T is cheaper but network permit sharing other devices AFL Don : This is "Ask Herr Fixit" night! Now that Walt's here, we can do that! FCP Sider : I'll check to see what version I'm running on my 840AV and I'll be back. AFA AndyW : Oratio, disks are made better these days.. Centering rings are usually AFA AndyW : standard.. Single or double doesn't matter.. Oratio : Were they used on the IIe AFA AndyW : Yes. AFL Don : In the early days, we used to have to put rings on all floppies. I still have about 1000 someplace... Oratio : Have a student who claims to need one for a class. Can you still get them? FCP Sider : I'm running 2.0X/ST with system 7.1 on a 840AV. AFL Don : Oratio, any disk made in the last 7 or 8 years shouldn't need 'em... BruceB9407 : Then After Dark Must Have A corupted File Will Try REloading Oratio : Thank you AFL Don : In the early days, Apple suggested that the hatch be closed only on running disks to avoid abusing FCP Sider : Oratio, usually you saw disks with no center ring or just one. It is possible that the disk your..... AFL Don : the center hole. AFA AndyW : AD is also a PC/Windows program.. BruceB9407 : Any One From Ohio AFA AndyW : I am.. FCP Sider : student has, had an extra ring put on it with one of the kits that were around a long time ago. BruceB9407 : Location AFA AndyW : Cinci BruceB9407 : Pretty Close BruceB9407 : type oh Oratio : The teacher of the class seems pretty insistent that they have one. But you think there should AFA AndyW : What's close? AFL Don : If you have an old disk, it might need an extra ring. But with the price of disks, nobody should be AFL Don : using one that old anyway... FCP Sider : I had a number of file from After Dark that wouldn't run with system 7.1, on of these was Lawn... Oratio : be no problem with a normal 51/4? FCP Sider : mower man. AFA AndyW : Cost about as much to find a ring as to buy a new disk! SROQUE : Anyone using Floptical with the GS? BruceB9407 : Cinci To Columbus AFL Don : The rings probably cost almost as much as good 5.25-inch floppies today.. AFA AndyW : Oh.. AFA AndyW : There are several people online who are.. I don't remember the names though.. BruceB9407 : You Do Mainframe Work AFA AFA Fixit : If you can find them. AFA AndyW : Not me.. AFL Don : If there's a problem, Oratio, it's because the disks are being used in an Apple-2 drive with a AFL Don : centering problem.. Oratio : So a normal 5.25 should work? AFL Don : ... or something else out of calibration. AFA AndyW : To center a 5.25 disk, wait for the light to come on, then close the door! AFL Don : That's the official Apple recommendation. AFL Don : Also, check the disk to see if the center hole has been abused. Mashing down when not centered can AFL Don : make a disk unusable. AFA AndyW : I do that even with the AppleDisk 5.25... AFL Don : ...Good idea AFA AndyW : And, I always do it when formatting, no matter what! AFL Don : I almost never use a 5.25-inch disk any more. SROQUE : me either they annoy me SROQUE : they're almost useless on a GS AFA AndyW : I have my 5.25" drivers disabled.. AFL Don : True... But they were amazing when they first became available! SROQUE : I did until I transferred files for a friend AFL Don : sure beat loading programs from a cassette tape! AFA AndyW : That was a LONG time ago though! AFL Don : How true! AFA AndyW : 15 years? SROQUE : I remember that FCP Sider : Don, you must remember the cassettes then. AFL Don : Sure do, Larry! FCP Sider : I've still got several Apple Tapes laying around here. AFL Don : Kinda fun, in a way... I remember when Radio Netherlands used to transmit Apple-2 programs over AFL Don : the air... FCP Sider : Tell us about that one. AFL Don : ...a regular feature of Media Network... AFA AndyW : I still have some Apple program tapes around.. AFA AndyW : The Galfo ham radio programs were supplied on tape.. AFL Don : They'd transmit a brief burst of data, listeners would record it on cassettes, then load it into AFL Don : their Apple-2's cassette port... Oratio : Thanks again, and I will tell the school district to upgrade to Macs... FCP Sider : That was something I never knew about. AFL Don : ...a little chancey, but sometimes they'd work! AFL Don : In Europe, according to Media Network, they used to transmit Apple-2 programs on FM, worked great! FCP Sider : The last time I used my IIE's cassette port was woth the Strip Reader I bought thru INCider or was.. FCP Sider : it A+. AFL Don : The CAI project I programmed used the cassette port to input control-track data from VCR's for AFL Don : video-cassette control. Worked great! AFA Fixit : Last time I used a cassette on an Apple II was in 1980 AFA AndyW : Well, I hope my last bug has been squashed in OE.. SROQUE : Don e-mail specifics about control track data... SROQUE : I know some teachers who might be interesed FCP Sider : Did you guys ever listen to the cassettes on your regular tape decks? AFA AndyW : Sent out a new beta version to someone with a ROM 3 this morning.. Waiting AFA AndyW : to hear from him.. AFA Fixit : {{{{{**Kate**}}}}} AFL Don : It's a commercial program, still in use... AFA AndyW : {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{ Becky!! }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} AFL Don : Hello, Kate! TallStuff : {{{{{**Walt**}}}}} TallStuff : {{{{{{{Andy}}}}}}}}} TallStuff : Hiya Don :) FCP Sider : Hi Kate! TallStuff : Hi Larry :) AFL Don : yes, Larry... Not top 40 stuff... AFA AndyW : Don, VCR control track data isn't copyrighted though.. SROQUE : glad to have someone else here Kate AFL Don : True, but the card to read the data was proprietary... FCP Sider : But considering the time it was interesting. TallStuff : Sroque you a Kate too or just glad to have another lady here?? SROQUE : some guys are always glad to have ladies around TallStuff : Oh ok :) SROQUE : Does anyone know the basic configuration of the old Franklin Ace... AFL Don : That's nice! AFA Fixit : Depends on the model. There were a few, SROQUE SROQUE : 1000's? I know several teachers who have tem and want // software for them AFA AndyW : I'll also do another mass mailing! Should be fun.. AFL Don : The Franklin came close to being an Apple-2+ clone, but not quite... Built like MILSPEC stuff... SROQUE : I think these might be 48K. But not sure. Pretty sure its 40 column only TallStuff : afk... brb FCP Sider : There were people who would bring Apple Rom code over to the Franklins and they did operate.... AFL Don : You could do quite a bit with 48K... The CAI project I programmed had to work in 48K, 'cause my AFL Don : college was too cheap to buy language cards... Took a lot of my time to squeeze the code. They'd have AFL Don : been money ahead to buy the extra 16K! FCP Sider : just like the II+'s. SROQUE : I'm putting most of my time into working out ways to put the monitor image... SROQUE : onto TV screens. for those teachers with //s you dont have to buy... SROQUE : separate cards or projection panels like on the Mac or DOS AFA Fixit : The advantage of a 40 column display. ;) AFL Don : Sure, just take the NTSC composite signal out of the RCA jack, put it into a monitor input... AFA AndyW : (pseudo NTSC) SROQUE : that's what I thought. Might use a VCR in between so that images would be on tape... SROQUE : that way it would work even with large screen sets say 32" or so. TallStuff : bak AFA AndyW : Front AFL Don : ...that'll work SROQUE : See you later guys. I gotta get stuff ready for work tomorrow. AFA AndyW : Remember when turning on an Apple would mess up ANY VCR anywhere near it?? AFA AndyW : See you later Sroque... AFL Don : ...or tv set. The old Apple 2+'s were really dirty, RFIwise.. AFA AndyW : Especially down the power line! SROQUE : sure do. It was fun to see the panic on someone's face AFL Don : thanks for dropping by, SROQUE... Hope to see you next week! SROQUE : probably will AFL Don : Great! AFL Don : We usually have a larger bunch here, good discussions... AFA AndyW : Been too hard for a lot of people to get online recently.. FCP Sider : It took 20 minutes to get on tonight for me. AFA AndyW : <- Got online on the first time.. AFL Don : No joy at all for me over the weekend, tonight I got on with the first call... FCP Sider : Any idea why I never have a problem getting up on Genie, or is Genie less active? AFA AndyW : Even had AOL crash, and got right back on.. AFL Don : I think that AO is really catching on, adding so many new users that there are problems adjusting... AFA AndyW : Less people online at any one time on Genie.. AFA AndyW : They're up to 600,000 users now.. AFL Don : That'll do it! AFA AndyW : (AOL is).. AFL Don : I notice that any news items that mention online services put AO at the top now... FCP Sider : Over in the Mac area there's a lot of people having problems with Apple's Geoport and the AOL software FCP Sider : I'm using the Geoport right now and have had no problems. \ AFA Fixit : Now that's a surprise. ;) TallStuff : bbl AFL Don : Well, I've got a test to grade, post... Gotta QRT here... FCP Sider : Nite Don! AFA Fixit : I'll take that as my que. Night all. FCP Sider : Nite Walt! AFA AndyW : See you later Walt! AFL Don : So long... Thanks for the archiving, Walt! AFL Don : CU Later... AFA AndyW : Bye Don! AFL Don : Bye all... AFL Don : Thanks again, Larry! Always good to see ya here! AFA Fixit : Have a whole lot more to do. Folders keep creeping up towards 50. AFL Don : True... AFA AndyW : I have a lot to do in ACM too.. Gotta have time on the PC to do it though! 1/31/94 7:59:23 PM Closing Log file.