1/24/94 6:26:43 PM Opening "Chat Log 1/24/94" for recording.

AFL Don    : Hello, Walt!
AFA Fixit  : Hi folks! Sorry I'm late. Had to help my brother put 
             the seat back in the van.
AFL Don    : Good excuse as I've heard all day!
Fred SoCal : Due to a house full of teenagers, I got a "computer" 
             dedicated phone line. :)
Fred SoCal : about 5 years ago, to be exact.
AFL Don    : That really helps...  I've had one for about three 
             years now...  Well worth $12.50/month...
AFA Fixit  : Couldn't survive without two dedicated computer lines 
             here. 
AFL Don    : There are no more line pairs available in our 
             neighborhood, so anybody new to modeming is going to
AFL Don    : have to wait, here...
AFA Fixit  : I've 8 line pair in the house. 
AFL Don    : Welcome to the Apple Hardware Forum Chat! 
AFL Don    : Glad to have you with us, Sandi!
SandiD1717 : Hi everyone
Fred SoCal : Oops, Hi Walt, Sandi, FCP.  :)
AFL Don    : Hello, Larry!
FCP Sider  : Hi Fred, all I just spent 25 minutes trying to come 
             online. AOL is really slow today.
AFA Fixit  : Hi Larry 
FCP Sider  : Hi Don
FCP Sider  : Hi Walt
AFL Don    : That's about par for the course for here, Larry, 
             lately anyway...
AFA Fixit  : It's been bad frequently as of late.
Fred SoCal : Be glad you did not try last week!!!
AFA Fixit  : I did for over an hour.
Fred SoCal : Ok, Bill, How did you invert the (NOT) ??
FCP Sider  : Don/Walt I should be uploading a low-level formatter 
             for the Sider D2 models later tonight.
AFL Don    : Great, Larry!
AFA Fixit  : Ok, we'll look for it.
AFL Don    : Thanks!
AFA Fixit  : Freed it up did you?
AFL Don    : How'd ya do in the earthquake, Fred?
FCP Sider  : Since I'm late please tell the subject for tonight. 
             Also Bob Consorti has just updated the LL D2.....
FCP Sider  : formatter.
AFL Don    : The official topic tonight is "Help! My computer has 
             an intermittent problem..."
Fred SoCal : Oh we had a 4:31 AM rock & rolling wake up call but
             no damage.
AFL Don    : ...heard you had some pretty-good aftershocks 
             today...
AFL Don    : Hey, that's great, Fred... Sort of "It's 4:31 AM, do 
             you know where your house is?"
Fred SoCal : I am about 50 or so miles east of the epicenter, I'm 
             in Pomona.
Fred SoCal : I personally haven't felt any aftershocks.
AFL Don    : My son's down there until Wednesday... He's a civil 
             engineer for the state, seismic stability of
             structures his specialty...
             Haven't heard from him, though...
Fred SoCal : He will undoubtedly be busy, Don.
AFL Don    : Anybody with any questions or problems re:
             intermittent computers?
AFL Don    : Right!
GSPlusBill : Well, I'm gonna head out.  Gotta make some phone 
             calls before TNG comes on...
AFL Don    : Glad to have you with us, Bill!  Hurry back!
FCP Sider  : Hi Kate!
AFL Don    : Hello, Kate!
GSPlusBill : Night, all! *Goodbye*
Fred SoCal : [You may not believe it but I had scheduled a test on 
             "Earthquakes" for Tues. the day after the shock.
             Honest.
AFL Don    : I'd believe it, Fred!  A few years ago I was 
             lecturing on primary and secondary earthquake waves
             and DURING the lecture we had the Morgan Hill quake, 
             right on schedule!
             My demos aren't always so dramatic!
FCP Sider  : Great classroom demo! 
AFL Don    : Right!
Fred SoCal : I apologized for overdoing the demo. :)
TallTassle : Hello again all :)
AFL Don    : :)
FCP Sider  : Hello once more!
AFA Fixit  : {{{{***Kate***}}}}
Fred SoCal : Hi Kate :)
TallTassle : {{{{***Walt***}}}}
TallTassle : ::Sitting in corner doing mail::
AFA Fixit  : At least it should stick.
TallTassle : Hiya Fred :)
AFL Don    : ...had a little trouble with my IW2 this week, or so 
             I thought...  Turned out to be pilot error..
AFL Don    : Hadn't used it since last May, but fired it up to do 
             grading spreadsheets etc. now that I'm teaching
             again this semester...  Wouldn't work...
             ...turned out I'd changed the CP baud rate to 19,200. 
              Forgot the IW2 thinks at 9600...
FCP Sider  : I always like audio/visual stimulation Don, I think I 
             should take in one of your lectures!
AFA Fixit  : It usually is.
Fred SoCal : I have a crash that seems to follow using Salvation 
             Deliverance for anything.
AFL Don    : Fred, that crash is normal.  We all get it.  Don't 
             know why, but it's just a nuisance...
AFA Fixit  : Have you tried booting with the shift key down?
AFL Don    : I tried that a long time ago, didn't help. 
             But it's no biggee, I just reboot after the
             crash...
Fred SoCal : :) I've been there , Don, twice.
Fred SoCal : Hmmm... No, not before using Deliverance.  I've got 
             in the habit of doing the 
AFL Don    : It only happens when you try to quit after doing the 
             Deliverance.
Fred SoCal : shift boot before using Renaissance <sp oops but not 
             for Deliverance
AFL Don    : Hmmmm.  I've never had a problem with Renaissance...
             Probably not a bad idea to do a shift boot before 
             using it, though...
AFL Don    : Hello, Marvin!
AFC Marvin : Good evening from Southern California where it is 
             still shaking from time to time.
AFL Don    : ...that's what I heard, Marvin...
AFA Fixit  : Hey Marvin. 
Fred SoCal : I am always afraid of the screen saver screwing 
             things up during the long lack of keyboard activity
AFL Don    : That's a good possibility.  I don't use a screensaver 
             here, so hadn't thought about it.
Simplexity : Which program we talking' 'bout?
Fred SoCal : What city you in, Marvin??
AFL Don    : Hello, Steve!  Deliverance/Renaissance...
AFA Fixit  : There's always the suspicion of screen savers.
AFC Marvin : Fred, I am in La Canada.  Where are you?
Simplexity : T2 is pretty solid, and I Deliv/Ren all the time with 
             DE screen savers active.
Fred SoCal : Pomona, you're much closer to "where its at" :)
AFL Don    : Only problem I've had with Deliverance is a crash 
             when I quit it.
AFC Marvin : That's true Fred, I am about half way between you and 
             the epicenter.
AFL Don    : Especially since, as I heard a tv newsperson say, 
             "This earthquake was very close to the ground..."
AFA Fixit  : Not exactly a good trait for a program that you trust 
             your file system to exhibit.
Fred SoCal : Same here Don, a crash either when I quit or shortly 
             thereafter.
Simplexity : Sounds like you guys might have a truly HUGE number 
             of files, and some handles are being "overloaded". 
AFL Don    : Fred, it's done it for me since the very first.
AFL Don    : Could be Steve, I can't throw anything away, so my HD 
             gets really cluttered.
AFC Marvin : Interesting, I don't remember having a reliable crash 
             when finishing with Deliverance.
AFL Don    : But Deliverance seems to do the job it was hired to 
             do ok, and I figure after all these years I'd have
             run into any hidden problem that was serious.
Simplexity : The thing tries to keep all your directory entries in 
             memory. If it isn't
AFA Fixit  : Neither do I Marvin.
Simplexity : allocation a big enough handle to hold everything, 
             you can overwrite another memory area. Usually this
             isn't a problem until you try to leave the program.
AFA Fixit  : Nothing like poor memory management to take down a 
             system.
Simplexity : Yup. It can get pretty spectacular, too!
AFL Don    : ...Once in a while I quit Deliverance w/o a crash, 
             but that's unusual.
Simplexity : It's pretty certain that you are running off the end 
             of one or more handles.
AFL Don    : ...Maybe there was an update I didn't get, I bought 
             it early on...  Use it regularly...
Simplexity : That is the kind of thing that sort of bug would 
             cause.
AFL Don    : Sounds reasonable to me...  I recall having heard it 
             generally reported as a common experience, so
             didn't bother worrying about whether or not I had 
             some kind of conflict here, hardware or softwarewise
Fred SoCal : I just used it to change my modem init string on AOL 
             to shut off the speaker cause it was way too loud
             when logging on here.
Simplexity : Anybody here interested in the next Quickie product? 
AFL Don    : Yes, definitely, Steve!  Devoted Quickie fan here!
Simplexity : Have you checked out the Sample files released over 
             the weekend?
AFL Don    : No, what's up?
Simplexity : 16- and 3200- COLORS!!!!!!!
AFL Don    : Wow!  That's impressive!
Simplexity : Look at the files, then tell me what you think.
AFL Don    : Wilco!
Fred SoCal : Will do
Fred SoCal : Sample files - Where??
AFC Marvin : Yes, that is impressive for what started as black and 
             white.
Simplexity : In the AGS library. Look for files U/Led in the last 
             week.
AFL Don    : Can't wait to try it...  Is the demo file complete 
             enough to get a good idea of the capabilities?
AFC Marvin : Steve, how do you get color out of that green light 
             in the scanner?
Simplexity : The pics are preliminary, and I didn't try too hard 
             to get perfect pics, so they just give you a rough
             idea of what is possible.
AFL Don    : By colors, do you mean that many gray-scale steps, or 
             do you do some kind of separation process to get
             color info? Do you do it in 320 mode or 640 mode,
             or some other display?
Simplexity : We use a special scanner frame with its own light and 
             filters to get three scan passes. Then the black and
             white scans are processed into 16-level true
Fred SoCal : Hi Softy
AFC Softy  : (Hi kids!  :)
AFL Don    : Aha...  Then we've gotta get a new scanner to take 
             advantage of it...  Will the old green job give B&W
AFL Don    : improvement...
AFL Don    : Hello, Larry!
AFC Marvin : Hi Larry!
Simplexity : gray scans, then merged as 24-bit color images. 
             Finally, the 24-bit colors are rendered down into
             16 colors using either a median-cut or MCU 
             (Most-Commonly Used) algorithm and painted into a
             IIgs picture.
AFL Don    : ....that's really impressive!  It's making my wallet
             throb already!
Fred SoCal : Just sit on it, Don, until the throb goes away.
AFL Don    : Right, Fred!  Just so the plastic doesn't jump out 
             when I'm not looking! 
Simplexity : For an 8-inch scan on a 8-MHz IIgs, it takes about 40 
             seconds to get a 16-color picture, and about 2
             minutes to render the same image in 3200 colors.
AFL Don    : B&W scanning is great, but with color it'll be 
             out-a-sight!
AFC Marvin : Steve, you say you use a scanner frame with its own 
             lights and filters.  Does that mean you still use 
             the original hand scanner in the frame?
Simplexity : Yes, put the original scanner in the frame, and scan 
             away! No hardware mods!
AFL Don    : Do you shut off the green diodes for these scans?  I 
             assume that's necessary...
Simplexity : No, the light from the frame pretty much overwhelms 
             the LED's.
AFL Don    : Hmmm...  Come to think about, the green LED's are 
             pretty-much monochromatic, so I see how that could
             work...
AFC Marvin : What is the scan area of the frame?  Is it difficult 
             to keep the registration of the scans correct.
Simplexity : The one I am using allows only 4-inch scans, but the 
             one to be released will allow an 8-inch width in two
             passes. Registration will be kept by the frame
             locking into place.
AFC Marvin : Steve, that sounds like it will be a nice scanner for 
             my IIGS since I already have the rest of the
             Quickie system
AFL Don    : I can see where that's going to push the interest in 
             color printers!
             Any memory limitations for 2GS's without a lot of 
             extra ram?
Simplexity : The initial scan will permit you to use about 1/5 of 
             the largest available block of memory. Also, the
             software is an NDA, so if you load a small desktop
             program, you can get a larger scan area.
Simplexity : The idea is to scan the color image, save it, then 
             load it and clean it up in a paint program such as
             DreamGrafix.
AFL Don    : What do you use for the white-light source, 
             incandescents? 
Simplexity : Too hot. I think we will be using a fluorescent tube.
AFL Don      ...the new rf-ballast fluorescents are very
             efficient, very bright, they might work much
             better.
Simplexity : Check out the Color Quickie Samples in the AGS 
             Library!
AFL Don    : Hello, London!  Simplexity is telling us about a new 
             color scanner capability for Quickie!
AFA Fixit  : Most desktop scanners use fluorescent lamps.
AFL Don    : Well!  I can't wait to see Steve's color samples!
Simplexity : I have to run for now, AFL Don has promised that he 
             will archive this for future generations. :)
             Duty, and my other job, calls!
AFL Don    : Hello, Dave!
SUPRDAVE   : I need some help in a strange sorta way...
AFL Don    : We'll do what we can, Dave...
SUPRDAVE   : long story, here it goes...
             I can't access AOL with my Laser 128, so I'm going to 
             download programs with my pc, and transfer via 
SUPRDAVE   : null modem cable over to the laser, I got that part 
             done, but now I need a comm program for the Laser
             so I can start a transfer. what/how can I get a comm 
             program for the laser?
AFL Don    : I think you're outa luck, Dave, the Laser is 
             incompatible with AOL software for some reason...
SUPRDAVE   : yes, I need a comm program so I can receive files 
             from the pc
AFA Fixit  : Email me your address and I'll send you a disk with 
             some of the programs online.
SUPRDAVE   : What, my address?
AFA Fixit  : Yes, Dave. I recognized the ambiguity shortly after 
             the return key.
SUPRDAVE   : oh, ok, sometimes its hard to follow the 
             conversation... :D
             Thank you, oh, thank you
LONDON1813 : G'day, What's the topic?
AFA Fixit  : That's ok, after you're used to following three 
             conversations, you forget.
SUPRDAVE   : I guess you get used to it after a while....
LONDON1813 : O.K., What is the difference between this forum and 
             Mac hardware?
AFL Don    : This forum deals with Apple-2 equipment...
             but Mac users are very welcome!
LONDON1813 : Thanks Don
AFC Marvin : Don, speaking of Macs reminds me that I have a 
             warranty replacement battery on the way.
AFL Don    : Very good, Marvin!  You must've made a good case with 
             Apple!
AFL Don    : What convinced 'em?
AFC Marvin : Yes, I talked to a fellow that agreed with my 
             reasoning on the matter.  Giving him the voltages
LONDON1813 : Can anyone help me on a Video Vision Studio question?
Fred SoCal : A 45 magnum?? ;)
AFC Marvin : helped too.  Also I told him I put the battery in 
             another PB 170 and it behaved the same.
AFL Don    : Not familiar with it, London, maybe somebody else 
             here is...
AFA Fixit  : It depends on the depth of the problem. 
AFL Don    : I don't know how he could have countered that 
             argument, Marvin!  I think you had him in a corner.
LONDON1813 : What is the quality like when output to video is 
             made?
LONDON1813 : I am thinking of a buy.
AFA Fixit  : I'm afraid I can't answer that. You better check out 
             Mac Hardware.
AFC Softy  : <-- still has no PB180.  <sigh!>
AFL Don    : Better see it for yourself before parting with money, 
             LONDON...
LONDON1813 : Cheer's 
AFC Softy  : Walt... regarding my Email the other night on the 
             Smart One modem.... if they need to turn off the MNP
             features, can they do that from the AOL software?
             Or is it a DIP switch procedure. :)
AFL Don    : What's the hangup on the PB 180, Larry?
AFC Softy  : Don.... partly money... but mostly getting to a 
             dealer to get thing at a decent price. :)
AFA Fixit  : It's usually a software setting. You can save it to 
             eeprom with an AT&W. The manual would help a lot.
AFC Softy  : Okay Walt... I'll get that info back to her tonight. 
             :)
AFL Don    : OIC...  That's always a stumbling block...
Fred SoCal : I have changed the init string in DB 11 in the apple 
             II folder to turn off...
Fred SoCal : my speaker.  If you have a good backup, you could 
             try a variation on that.
AFC Softy  : Don... I'm moving in San Diego around June and I'm 
             already feeling the pressure
AFC Softy  : from that too. :)
AFL Don    : I'll bet, Larry...
AFC Marvin : Larry, where are you located now?
AFC Softy  : I have to do some juggling with my finances before 
             the end of this month.  As 
AFC Softy  : soon as I can get that done... the PB is MINE!!!
AFC Softy  : :D
AFL Don    : The PBs are great, sure like mine.  I'd rather have a 
             PB180, but the PB 170 is dynamite...
Fred SoCal : I have my Zoom 14.4 fax modem manual here, exactly 
             which command do you want??
AFC Softy  : Marvin... I'm in the Central Coast area of CA.  About 
             dead center between LA
AFC Softy  : and SF. :)
AFC Softy  : Fred... I'm helping to get some potential "new Apple 
             II blood" online... and 
AFA Fixit  : Need to turn off MNP 3 and 4.
AFC Softy  : I don't have all of the info from the person yet.   
             But I'm working on it. :)
AFC Softy  : This is a teacher who has a Mac... but likes AOL so 
             much she wants to get some other teachers online
             using their Apple IIs.
AFL Don    : Lotta good stuff for teachers here...
AFA Fixit  : There's a good chance that AT\N0&W (That's a zero) in 
             manual dial instead of ATDTxxx-xxxx
Fred SoCal : The "AT" command to disable error correction 
             (MNP/V.42) is AT&Q6  AT&Q6
             that was twice to be sure
AFC Softy  : Can you insert the AT commands into the dial string?
AFA Fixit  : If that doesn't help, use AT&F&W
AFA Fixit  : Yes you can.
AFA Fixit  : Usually
Fred SoCal : If you insert into the init string it would be "&Q6"
AFC Softy  : Just like I use the cancel call waiting command?  
             1170,xxx-xxxx
AFA Fixit  : Really should check the manual as "extended" commands 
             vary by model.
AFC Marvin : I was about to offer to turn on my IIGS and see what 
             init string I am using with my 14.4 modem but
             Walt makes a good point about not all extended 
             commands being the same from model to model.
AFC Softy  : Okay... well I'll get what info I have back to her 
             and see how things go.
AFC Marvin : I use a Practical Peripherals 14.4 modem on my IIGS 
             and it works fine on AOL.
Fred SoCal : The lights on my modem show both EC and FC on with no 
             problems here.
AFA Fixit  : With or without error correction enabled, Marvin?
AFC Softy  : Well they only have a choice of a SmartOne2400, or an 
             Apple Data modem <GACK!>
AFC Softy  : ...and she said the Apple modem barely works with 
             anything.   :) 
AFA Fixit  : Kate used a SmartOne 2400 for years on the Mac no 
             problems. 
AFA Fixit  : Other Hayes might work with the Apple Modem. 
AFC Marvin : Walt, I don't know if error correction is enabled or 
             not.  I would have to look at the string to see. 
AFC Marvin : I don't remember doing anything to turn off error 
             correction.
AFA Fixit  : Then it's probably on. I can tell that I'm connected 
             with MNP3 on the Supra.
AFC Softy  : Well I have to split.... I take it the topic tonight 
             was on the Quickie-C .
AFA Fixit  : I do like that Alphanumeric display on it.
AFC Softy  : (I saw a post about the Quickie C last night. :)
AFC Softy  : Oh wait... I saw the scan samples in AGS... that's 
             where I found out about it.
AFC Softy  : :) 
AFL Don    : Actually, it was on Intermittent Problems, but nobody 
             saluted on that subject...
AFA Fixit  : As though you're surprised, Don.
AFC Marvin : I like the display on my modem too.  But I don't 
             remember what it says when I am on AOL and I am not
AFC Softy  : (I read toooooooooooo many boards here.......  :)
Fred SoCal : Does the AOL modem (or modems) have error 
             correction??
AFC Marvin : using the IIGS tonight.
AFL Don    : ...yeah, right, Walt! :)
AFC Softy  : Anyway... I gotta go.... catch ya all latah!  :)
AFA Fixit  : That was quick 
AFL Don    : Seeya, Larry!
AFL Don    : Well, I've gotta leave soon...  grading to do, and 
             all that...
Fred SoCal : Same here  bye all :)
AFC Marvin : Goodnight Fred.
AFL Don    : Good to see ya again, Fred!
AFA Fixit  : Night all.
AFL Don    : Night all...
AFC Marvin : Night all....

1/24/94 10:55:46 PM Closing Log file.