1/17/94 6:20:48 PM Opening "Chat Log 1/17/94" for recording IDtor : Hi AFL Don : Hi IDtor! Welcome to the Apple Hardware Forum Chat! AFL Don : Others should be here shortly... IDtor : Thanks, are you the one to ask though questions about Macs to? AFL Don : Well, this is the Apple-2 hardware area... But maybe I can help... AFL Don : Your best bet is to go to the Mac area, though... IDtor : okay I have a couple of Macs 800 and ci, but I have a friend that has a Mac II IDtor : This isn't the Mac area? AFL Don : No, this is the Apple-2 area... The MAC areas all start with an M instead of an A, such as MHW, etc. But that's ok, we're all friends... IDtor : the question is his drive is down IDtor : should I go to Mac area? AFL Don : Has he run the disk fixer that comes with System 7? AFL Don : If I can't help, that'd be a better bet... IDtor : I ran the disk-tool floppy to get the system up. IDtor : It's the only way to get the screen AFL Don : ...There's a diagnostic routine that'll fix many hard drive problems on the Mac... You should run that routine... IDtor : what is it? AFA Fixit : Hi Don! AFL Don : Do you have access to Norton Utilities? TallTassle : Hello all :) AFA Fixit : {{{{{Kate}}}} AFL Don : Hi, Walt! IDtor has a downed drive on a MAC, needs help with fixer utilities... TallTassle : {{{{{Walt}}}}} IDtor : yes, but how can I install it when the machine is down? AFL Don : Hi Kate... TallTassle : Hiya Don :) AFL Don : The program is on a floppy, designed for just the situation you're in now... You run it from the AFL Don : floppy... AFA Fixit : If you have the Emergency Disk handy. AFA Fixit : What Mac? IDtor : even if Nortons is not installed AFA Fixit : What problem? AFL Don : Right... IDtor : original Mac II wont start up with out disk tool IDtor : I reinstalled system 7, but it wouldn't do the easy install AFA Fixit : Norton or Mac Tools should fix it. AFL Don : You boot up into the Emergency Disk... IDtor : yes AFA Fixit : Might want to try Disk First Aid on the Disk Tools floppy as well. IDtor : tried that, no luck AFA Fixit : Then hope that Norton can do it. AFL Don : Any messages from the First Aid run? AFA Fixit : Personally, I find MacTools works better. IDtor : What's MacTools? AFL Don : Norton's probably more powerful than the Apple program from what I hear... AFA Fixit : Utilities from Central Point software along the lines of Norton Utilities for the Mac. I've had it AFA Fixit : fix things that Norton can't. AFL Don : There is, of course, the possibility of a for-real problem with the disk... IDtor : what's weird about this situation is that I get the happy face and welcome message and the AFL Don : Did you do a clean install when you tried to put 7.0 back on the disk? IDtor : I get a flashing screen(like out of sync) IDtor : what do you mean ...clean AFA Fixit : That's a classic symptom of a corrupted Finder or System file. AFL Don : No extensions in operation... Shouldn't be a problem if you installed from the original disk set. AFA Fixit : Did Disk First Aid find any problems with the hard drive? AFL Don : Also, try it after renaming the System Folder to something else, so old files won't hang around... IDtor : No...but some extensions are still there IDtor : renaming just the system folder AFL Don : I think you need to try again, but after renaming the system folder... AFA Fixit : Actually, I don't call it a clean install unless you trash the System File and Finder file and AFA Fixit : rename the System folder. AFL Don : Plus make sure that no system files are in the trash folder... AFA Fixit : You have to remove or rename the System file or Apple's installer will reinstall the new system AFA Fixit : over the old one. IDtor : It wouldn't install when I did the easy install, had to pick MacII only AFA Fixit : Sounds more and more like a corrupted system file. IDtor : is that normal on a MacII AFL Don : Hello, NISES! Welcome to the Apple Hardware Forum Chat... AFL Don : It can happen on any computer... and does... IDtor : So you think I can fix it by renaming the system folder and reinstalling system 7 AFA Fixit : Don't forget to trash the system file as well. AFL Don : Nothing's ever definite, but that's a strong possibility... AFA Fixit : Apple's Installer looks for it if it can't find a folder called system folder. IDtor : what should I rename the system folder to? AFA Fixit : If you try an easy install, the installer looks at the system file to determine what should be AFA Fixit : installed. AFA Fixit : You can call it anything you want except System Folder. AFL Don : Just something different... Old.System is good, then you can always go into that folder to bring AFL Don : back something you might want to keep... Like a favorite font... AFA Fixit : One thing to be sure of is that you get a clean bill of health from Disk First Aid before you install IDtor : or inits? AFA Fixit : anything on the hard drive. IDtor : First aid said "no problem" AFL Don : Then it's almost a lead-pipe cinch that a clean installation of the operating system will work... IDtor : is system file a suitcase? AFA Fixit : Then you simply have a System Folder problem. That's quite common on a Mac. Especially if you had AFA Fixit : an inopportune system crash. AFA Fixit : Yes, the System file is a suitcase under system 7.x AFL Don : <---(Hmmmm. Trying to think of an opportune system crash...) AFA Fixit : Just before you are going to reformat the hard drive. AFL Don : Ok! :) IDtor : okay thanks for all your help...I'll try that. If I rename the system folder you think I should be IDtor : able to do an Easy Install? AFA Fixit : Yes, but I never use Easy Install. Leaves you with all sorts of annoying nonsense printers in the... AFA Fixit : chooser. AFL Don : It's easier to do a custom install, decide what you want... IDtor : oh...Mac II only the? IDtor : than? not the? AFA Fixit : Mac II and the printer you are using. If you have ethernet, install that as well. If you use File... AFL Don : Huh? AFA Fixit : Sharing, that to. AFA Fixit : You can select multiple items by holding down the shift key while clicking on the various items. IDtor : Oh I just remembered another thing. when in disk tools the apple menu just says "about this Mac" IDtor : no other menus AFL Don : That's 'cause that disk isn't big enough to hold a lot of non-essential info you don't need at the AFL Don : moment... AFA Fixit : That's because there are no Apple Menu items on the Disk Tools floppy. System 7, Disk First Aid and AFL Don : Hello, JPH! Welcome to the Apple Hardware Forum Chat... AFA Fixit : HDSC Setup, barely fit as it is. AFL Don : Hi Bucky! Welcome to the Apple Hardware Forum Chat... IDtor : oh...thanks again..bye AFL Don : Please let us know! BuckyS : I have a question about Macintosh computer-can anyone help? Or am I in the wrong area? JPHidahl : Is this hardware in general or just Apple II? AFL Don : This is the Apple-2 area, but we might be able to help... BuckyS : specifically-I need to transfer a spreadsheet from Quattro Pro (IBM) so that it can be read BuckyS : by ClarisWorks AFL Don : Won't the ClarisWorks translator pull it over? AFA Fixit : What file formats will Quattro Pro export? AFL Don : I don't remember if there's provision for a Quattro Pro translator... But CW will read a lot of other AFL Don : foreign formats... BuckyS : can I upload it as a comma-delimited file to myself on AOL and then download it onto the Mac AFA Fixit : Comma delimited is the universal database format... AFL Don : That should work, but have you tried a direct read of the file from ClarisWorks? JPHidahl : There's gotta be a better way. AFA Fixit : There's always DIF and SYLK. BuckyS : This is my first experience with Mac software- I am not sure what I have gotten into, but this BuckyS : is a paying client for me! AFA Fixit : You tend to keep more of the formatting with those. JPHidahl : DIP is just data, isn't it. What spreadsheets support SYLK? BuckyS : would SYLK be better if Quattro will export in that format? AFA Fixit : One of the problems with going between DOS software and the Mac is different date formats. AFL Don : I just checked ClarisWorks, and there isn't a translator for Quattro Pro... BuckyS : I only have one date cell,so that is the least of my problems. AFL Don : ClarisWorks can handle both DIP and SYLK.. AFL Don : I'd say, go for it, see what happens... BuckyS : ... go for it---with ascii format or SYLK format? AFL Don : With DIP, you'll lose formatting, I think, but with a little effort you can trim it up... AFL Don : Best thing to do is try... JPHidahl : I've seen translators supplied by Lotus for Symphony and 123 for SYLK. JPHidahl : Quattro Pro is the major competitor, isn't it? AFA Fixit : How about WKS format, Don? AFL Don : No experience with that... JPHidahl : WKS is the original 123 format. BuckyS : are these translators' you referred to automatically loaded as part of CW install? AFL Don : Yes, with ClarisWorks 2.0. Quattro Pro is so similar to other formats that I understand they had to pull it, so maybe ClarisWorks 2.0 will interpret it as a MicroSoft product, work with it. AFL Don : I'd sure try first, anyway... AFL Don : A little creative experimentation is in order... AFA Fixit : I'd try the highest level format that both programs support. JPHidahl : These were Lotus translators for importing and exporting on PCs. The only translator for CW that AFL Don : Don't do any more work than you have to! JPHidahl : I've seen included was SYLK. But, I don't know what other spreadsheets support SYLK. AFA Fixit : I'd expect both to handle WKS, DBF, then SYLK, DIP. Fall back on comma delimited ASCII as a last .... AFA Fixit : resort AFA Fixit : I haven't seen a spreadsheet that doesn't support SYLK and comma-delimited text. AFL Don : Maybe you can export from Quattro Pro as Excel 3.0, then pick that up from ClarisWorks... JPHidahl : If they support SYLK, might they call it something else, like Excel? AFA Fixit : No, it's a specific file-interchange format. BuckyS : if I upload it as one of those formats,will the Mac download it in it's platform.... AFL Don : No... BuckyS : I cannot just take a disk from IBM Machine and read into a Mac can I? AFA Fixit : Excel format is a good bet. AFL Don : AO won't do any platform to platform translation during ul/dl... TallStuff : *Thump Thud Crash Bang* BuckyS : Thanks a lot! BuckyS : Any suggestions? AFA Fixit : You can transfer files on a PC disk to a Mac using Apple File Exchange. JPHidahl : There's disk translation software supplied by Apple, that is included on Performas. BuckyS : this guy has a Mac Performa Machine...tell me more! JPHidahl : That's it! AFA Fixit : There are also a few extensions that let you mount a DOS formatted disks on a Mac AFA Fixit : Not worthwhile if you don't plan on doing this a lot. AFA Fixit : a lot. AFL Don : You probably just need to brew up a pot of strong coffee, lock the doors, take the phone off the hook and try things until something works... AFA Fixit : File Exchange is free and not too much a bother if you aren't transferring files between platforms BuckyS : then if he has file exchange, I do not have to export the Quattro file in any thing other AFA Fixit : all the time. BuckyS : than it's native format-correct? JPHidahl : All file exchange does is allow one to mount a DOS 3-1/2 disk and transfer it to MAC format. AFA Fixit : He'll have to convert it to a format that the target application supports. JPHidahl : It won't translate files for different applications. AFL Don : AFE won't change program-specific parameters for you... BuckyS : AFA Fixit Are you saying that I export it as SYLK,ASCII,etc, then read it in under AFE? JPHidahl : That sounds good. AFA Fixit : Yep, about all that Apple File Exchange does without additional translators is read the DOS disk AFA Fixit : and let you copy it to a Mac disk JPHidahl : One tricky area on spreadsheets is functions. Another is Macros. JPHidahl : Simple math, strings, and numbers should be ok. AFL Don : If you can get the spreadsheet out as Excel 3.0, the CW translator should take care of almost AFL Don : everything. AFL Don : The ClarisWorks 2.0 translators are very good... JPHidahl : Excel is common to PCs and Macs. JPHidahl : Gotta go. Good luck, Bucky. BuckyS : Thanx for your suggestions! As we say here in the south: Y'all come-ya hear?Wish me luck. AFL Don : Please let us know! AFA Fixit : Good luck. It may take a couple tries. BuckyS : I sure will-I really appreciate your help. BuckyS : Good-By. AFL Don : Good luck! 1/17/94 7:46:14 PM Closing Log file.