Apple II Art & Graphics Forum Chat Log. Date March 9, 1990. AGR Chat Room. Guests: Vitesse, Inc. , Topic: Quickie Hand Held Scanner. The following log is Copyright (c) 1990, NoseWorks, Inc. and Quantum Computer Services, Inc. This log may posted on any information exchange network provided the previous and following notice remains intact America Online and the Apple II Art & Graphics Forum... We've got the answers. AFL Scott Good evening! Welcome to a very special night in AGR! AFL Scott Tonight our special guests are Vitesse, Inc., makers AFL Scott of the highly touted Quickie hand held scanner for the AFL Scott Apple IIGS. Before I introduce the congregation from AFL Scott Vitesse, I would like to direct your attention to the AFL Scott HotShot menu item. In the HotShot message, you'll notice AFL Scott that this conference is being held under STRICT, unyielding AFL Scott PROTOCOL. Please take the time to familiarize yourself AFL Scott with protocol procedures as explained in the HotShot entry. AFL Scott Also in the From The Forum Leader entry, you'll note that AFL Scott AGR is holding it's SECOND annual Art Contest. In this AFL Scott contest, you simply upload the best piece of art you've AFL Scott created (sorry, scanned images not allowed) to one of AFL Scott our contest libraries. You can enter as many times as AFL Scott you wish. AFL Scott Tonight we had originally planned to announce the winners AFL Scott of the three contests we held a few weeks back. Due to AFL Scott the nature of this conference, we'll be announcing the AFL Scott winners next week. Sorry! :( AFL Scott As most of you know, Vitesse, Inc. has just released the AFL Scott only hand-held scanning device for the Apple IIGS. I'm AFL Scott sure most of you are really anxious to get your question AFL Scott answered (I know I am!:)). On hand from Vitesse to answer AFL Scott your questions are Jim Carson, president of Vitesse; Kevin AFL Scott Johnson, founder and vice president of engineering; AFL Scott Larry Larimore, Director of Sales; John Pothier, head of AFL Scott Operations (and also at the keyboard); and the designer AFL Scott of the software for Quickie, Chris Warner. Oh, and... AFL Scott yes, Vitesse will shortly be unveiling their Quickie AFL Scott support area here in AGR and APR! Right now, let's all AFL Scott welcome Team Vitesse to America Online and AGR! AFL Scott Welcome Vitesse!!!!:) AGR Guest2 Scott--Thx for the great intro. We'd sure hoped to be here two weeks ago, AGR Guest2 but the gods weren't willing. However, we did scarf down some great pizza AGR Guest2 in everybody's honor that night. AFL Scott Excellent! Before we open up the floor for questions, how about telling AFL Scott us all a little something about Quickie? AGR Guest2 Sure thing. You said most of it, Scott when you said that Quickie is the AGR Guest2 ONLY hand scaner for the IIgs. (and BTW, the IIe version is almost ready!!) AFL Scott Great!!!:)) AGR Guest2 We've been reading your messages in the graphics area AGR Guest2 and maybe we can clear up a few points. Quickie scans in AGR Guest2 640-mode, in order to provide the best resolution. You may have seen the AGR Guest2 scans we did of Jeff McNelly's "Shoe" character from the Feb 90 issue of AGR Guest2 InCider; honest....NO RETOUCHING!! ...and about 5 seconds per scan! AGR Guest2 We let you save scanned images in paint, pic, Apple Preferred, and Finder AGR Guest2 Icon format. If you want to get an image wider than say, 4 inches, the AGR Guest2 hot tip is to make two scans and then just paste them together w/ a good AGR Guest2 IIgs paint priogram. The Quickie.NDA routine makes it even easier--just scan AGR Guest2 from within your favorite IIgs application. Enough from us--how about AGR Guest2 questions from you..... AFL Scott Great!!! Michael515 So since it uses 640 mode, it's only really good for line art right? (ie non- Michael515 color images right?) AGR Guest2 Don't think that strictly true. You get Six grey tones w/ Chris's soft- AGR Guest2 ware, and it's easy to load a 640-mode image into a paint program running AGR Guest2 in 320-mode. check the InCider scans...they're in 640-mode..... AGR Guest2 Ga Michael515 are you saying it will auto convert from 640 ----> 320? AGR Guest2 Nope not OUR software. But run PWG in 320 and load a 640 image...or use AGR Guest2 a conversion utility. AGR Guest2 GA Rob Morgan I just bought the Quickie earlier tonight, Can you tell me wich slot to put it AGR Guest2 In 1,2,5,6, or 7. Quickie will find its card; NO NEED to change the slot. GA Rob Morgan will the printer switch ok with it? AGR Guest2 No problem. but if you're in NDA mode, you can't print while you're scan- AGR Guest2 ning. Remember, if the slot is empty, YOU CAN USE IT> GA AFC DaveS I would really like to see 16 level grayscale 320 mode scans possible...the AFC DaveS kind of applications I had in mind was to sketch really tiny, shaded AFC DaveS drawing and scan them in for animation purposes...I like 640 mode (sometimes) AFC DaveS but my primary Paint Program is DPaint II...any plans to try and AFC DaveS get 16 level 320 mode out of the Quickie? AFC DaveS GA AGR Guest2 Ummm, 320 may not be the best for "detail"; try a 640-mode picture in 320-- AGR Guest2 you can add the gey detail you want. GA AFL Scott GA Dave... AFC DaveS I'm more interested in the shading...I use pencil a lot AFC DaveS and would like to see more grays. AFC DaveS GA AGR Guest2 Gotcha...so would we. We're working on it, but can't promise a specific date. AGR Guest2 GA AFC DaveS Thanks! :) StPatrick2 How will Quickie run on both the GS and //e, software? If so, what additional StPatrick2 cost is involved if you want to use on both machines? GA AGR Guest2 The hardware (scanner head and card) will be the same. It may well be that AGR Guest2 a GS will be able to use both. Haven't (yet) made a final decision on putting AGR Guest2 both versions of the s/w in the same box. BTW, Scummie is here; he's doing AGR Guest2 the IIe s/w...he says a GS _WILL_ be able to iuse the IIe s/w. AGR Guest2 GA StPatrick2 What is the cost? GA AGR Guest2 OF what? GA StPatrick2 Of Quickie. AFL Scott Good question!:) AGR Guest2 Sorry, thought maybe it was about the IIe version. Quickie retails for $299 StPatrick2 Thank you. Done AFL Scott GA Dave... AFC DaveS In the InCider I got yesterday, I noted that Roger Coats has a special AFC DaveS price of $199. Done AFC DaveS (for the Quickie, that is :) AGR Guest2 (suggested, of course), but maybe you'd be wise to check out some good AGR Guest2 dealers. GA AFL Scott GA Rob Rob Morgan That's who I got mine from, for 199. A GibberFC Are there plans to make a Flatbed scanner for the //gs??? I love the Quickie A GibberFC but I sometimes need more than the Quickie can show... ::hoping::: :) A GibberFC ga AGR Guest2 Not at the present time because of the cost. ga A GibberFC :( AFL Scott Followup, Gib? A GibberFC Thanks for the Info... If you do make one... I will be the first in line to A GibberFC Purchase one... :) thanks....GA Micol Sys Ok... AFL Scott GA Micol Sys!:)) Micol Sys First, you implied earlier that you could use the Quickie without setting the AGR Guest2 Ever tried to roll a book through Thunderscan or tried to get a scan in only AGR Guest2 a few seconds? ga Micol Sys slot to YOUR CARD. Is this true? Secondly, if you try to do two scans and Micol Sys paste them together, isnt this a little difficult because the slightest AGR Guest2 Yes, absolutely Micol Sys difference in the angles of each scan would cause it not to mesh? Thanks GA AGR Guest2 It only takes a couple of tries to get the knack of it AGR Guest2 ga AFL Scott Followup, Micol? Micol Sys Any chance of OCR in the future? (on a 4meg GS ;) Micol Sys ga AGR Guest2 OCR: currently under development... AGR Guest2 ga A GibberFC The angles are different that is why I would like to see a flatbed :) I'm lazy A GibberFC OCR!!!! Cool GA AGR Guest2 apple has a flatbed scanner available (drivers will soon be available for //) Tosh How does Quickie handle the 640 palette? Is black #0 and white #15? And are Tosh the greys made by the four true colors AGR Guest2 It uses 6 true greys in 640 mode to generate 16 dithered greys under good AGR Guest2 circumstances. AGR Guest2 ga AFL Scott Followup, Tosh? Tosh Is there pure black and white AGR Guest2 yes, when you use the black and white mode, it uses pure black and white (15,0) AGR Guest2 ga Tosh Thanks GA GuS Grafix How does Quickie deal with large images--I assume the scans are only 3 or 4 in GuS Grafix inches in width... how do you get the pieces to come together...is there an AGR Guest2 The width of a scan is limited to 4.x inches wide and its length is limited GuS Grafix easy way to do this? GA AGR Guest2 to available memory. ga AGR Guest2 no easy way to put two images together, just practice GuS Grafix (one more ? if allowed) AFL Scott Follow up, Marian? AFL Scott Sure.. GA...:) GuS Grafix Unrelated question... GuS Grafix any plans to make Quickie work with a Mac ... GuS Grafix as well as an Apple IIe/GS? (I have both and want scanner for both if poss) GuS Grafix GA AGR Guest2 no, no plans for a mac version AGR Guest2 ga GuS Grafix Thanks. Done. GA AFL Scott Next up is ST Patrick! GA!:) StPatrick2 How can a user group see Quickie in action. I know that I am not alone in StPatrick2 wanting to see it before I put out $$$. GA AGR Guest2 To see it in action call *818) 813-1270 and ask for Larry to become part of AGR Guest2 our demo group. ga StPatrick2 Thanks. Done AFA Binky Q= (RadRic), Bandit RADIORICKY Will there be any rebates sometime soon? AGR Guest2 rebates? AFL Scott I'm confused, too... please elaborate, Ricky. RADIORICKY To offer a lower price directly from manufact. AFL Scott Ah! Buyer incentive!:) AGR Guest2 no, we're developing a dealer network to offer the best competitive pricing AGR Guest2 to our end users. ga RADIORICKY ga AFL Scott Followup, Radio Ricky? AFL Scott GA Dan Bandit!:) Dan Bandit Assuming apple does come out with drivers for the IIgs, will your OCR software Dan Bandit be able to load Pictures from that scanner? Also, may I breach the subject Dan Bandit of salvation? Dan Bandit ga AFL Scott Salvation is not the topic, here...Sorry. AGR Guest2 (the OCR software might be able to, but we can't say until we know more about AGR Guest2 what apple releases... AGR Guest2 ga AFL Scott Followup on Quick, Dan? AFL Scott make that Quickie...:) Dan Bandit thanks ga AFL Scott GA Tosh!:) Tosh Could you explain the DPI settings and what they do? AGR Guest2 DPI = Dots Per Inch. The switch on the right side of the scanner allows you AGR Guest2 to select from 100,200,300, or 400 dpi. AGR Guest2 That gives you four different levels of magnification. ga AFL Scott Followup, Tosh? AFL Scott GA Dave!:) AFC DaveS About "red-blindness that's so common with ordinary hand scanners"... AFC DaveS Could you explain how yellow-green is better? Is there such thing as " AFC DaveS yellow-green blindness"? AFC DaveS GA AGR Guest2 With the system used in Quickie, the yellow-green achieves better results with AGR Guest2 all colors. ga AFL Scott Followup, Dave? AFC DaveS Nope AFL Scott GA MarkS126!:) MarkS126 How many year warranty on it? GA AGR Guest2 90 day unlimited, 1 year limited warranty. AGR Guest2 ga MarkS126 Thanks and done GA AFL Scott GA, St Patrick2...:) StPatrick2 What is Quickies scanning speed? AGR Guest2 Very, very fast.... just a couple of seconds to scan a full length page. ga StPatrick2 Thank you. Done AFL Scott It really depends on your hand, though, right? AFL Scott Guess so..:) AGR Guest2 yeah, I guess if you move your hand really slowly, it'll take longer...ga AFL Scott GA Tosh!:) Tosh Are there any utilities in the Quickie software which manipulate the image Tosh after it is scanned? AGR Guest2 The software is intended to capture and save the software to disk. Other AGR Guest2 software (paint programs) do an excellent job of manipulating the images. AGR Guest2 ga Tosh Thanks GA AFL Scott Followup, Tosh? Bachir Can we scan in 320 mode also? AGR Guest2 You cannot scan directly into 320 mode. ga AFL Scott Followup, Bachir? Bachir Then how does have 16 levels of shades? AGR Guest2 16 shades of dithered grey. AGR Guest2 ga AFL Scott GA Markus Markus I can't remember where, but I heard thate 320 mode software would be slower? Markus ga AGR Guest2 Can you clarify that, markus? Markus Well, would 320 mode software slow down the scanning speed? Markus ga AGR Guest2 There would be no difference (speedwise) for 320 software. We chose to go 640 AGR Guest2 to obtain better resolution. ga Markus thank you. ga AFL Scott GA Marian!:) GuS Grafix How steady does one's hand have to be to get a good Quickie scan? GA AGR Guest2 Easier than drawing a line with a pencil. ga AFC DaveS How long is the cable? GA AFL Scott I think she means how smooth do you have to be.. lots of us are very AFL Scott gittery with a pencil..:) AFC DaveS (oops...misfire :) AFL Scott (We'll hold it, Dave) GuS Grafix Right, Scott... Thanks... AGR Guest2 Well, you just hold it, press down a little button, and drag it. If you go to AGR Guest2 fast, a light blinks to tell you to slow down.... it's really very easy. ga AFL Scott Followup, Marian? AFL Scott GA Dave!:) Now..:) AFC DaveS How long is the cable? GA AGR Guest2 the cable is 6 feet long. ga AFL Scott Followup? AFL Scott GA Bachir!:) AFL Scott whoopss.... missed... sorry... Bachir Is it hard to make it for 320 mode, why not both 320 and 640? ga AGR Guest2 There is no reason to have 320 mode since it's a black and white scanner... AGR Guest2 using 320 would be a waste of bits in the pixel. ga AFL Scott GA Dave AFC DaveS How about deriving grayscal information from a small 4x4 matrix and computing AFC DaveS some kind of intensity? It would lose lots of detail, but as an option AFC DaveS it would be worthwhile. GA AFL Scott That's a question. AFC DaveS (oops...it is...sorry) AFC DaveS ? AGR Guest2 That is being looked into. (Good question) ga AFL Scott GA AplArtist..:) Sorry I missed you the first time around!:) Apl Artist why does your company insist on useing false 'screen' shots in your ad? Apl Artist Is it because you think it won't compete w/thunderscan or computereyes?... AGR Guest2 The purpose of using the picture in the ad was to show ability to scan a AGR Guest2 magazine, not just flat sheet paper. We stated that we used a simulated image Apl Artist or was it a slick idea derived from the companies ad campaign people to get our Apl Artist attention. :) AGR Guest2 and not a scanned image in the ad. We used color to show that it would compete Apl Artist the use of a simulated image... AGR Guest2 with thunderscan in quality. We are however redoing the ad for the May release Apl Artist is like inflating a ballon then bursting it. AGR Guest2 issue to avoid any further confusion. (also, computereyes is a video AGR Guest2 digitizer, not a scanner). ga Apl Artist (sorry about that. yes, I'm done.) AFC DaveS I like the fact that you don't need an ImageWriter to scan stuff :) GA AGR Guest2 (Sorry, we interrupted, Apl Artist) Tosh Again about DPI....Is the image magnified or is the resolution increased? What Tosh happens to a 1" x 1" picture at different settings? AFL Scott Good Question!!! AGR Guest2 It's an increase in resolution from the scanner which results in a larger AGR Guest2 screen image. A 1 x 1 image would be small at 100dpi and very large and AGR Guest2 detailed at 400dpi. ga AFL Scott 4x detail? AGR Guest2 yes, 4x details AGR Guest2 ga AFL Scott Followup, Tosh? Tosh Now i think I get it......Thanks :) Tosh ga AFL Scott GA Dave... AFC DaveS Theoretical Question: What would happen if one tried to scan a freeze-framed AFC DaveS image on the TV? I'm aware that the scanline might not be around long AFC DaveS enough to even register on the scanner...but it's just a question :) AGR Guest2 The scanner works on the principal of light refraction; it doesn't work on AGR Guest2 crt device. ga AFL Scott Followup, Dave? :) AFC DaveS Curious, but done. AFC DaveS GA AFL Scott GA Tosh Tosh I would have tried that too!!! :) AFC DaveS Thanks for the support, Tosh :) AFL Scott GA AplArtist Bachir I have digital eye, and the image is much better quality on the 320 mode then AFC DaveS (cyberpunk? :) Bachir on the 640 mode, since each pixel on the 320 mode hold 16 level of shades Bachir and each pixel on 640 mode holds on 4 levels, so by doing dithering Bachir this will not increase the resolution as you stated earlier, . ga AFL Scott Vitesse? (College bowl??) AGR Guest2 Simply, we tried both 640 and 320; it just looks better in 640! ga AFL Scott Followup, Bachir? AFL Scott GA AplArtist... Comment. Apl Artist 2 640 dithered pixels = 1 320 pixel, 4 values for = 640 pixel = 16 values... Apl Artist then still, your getting 320 mode quality in 640 mode right? Apl Artist GA Bachir But images on a dithered screen will not look as good as not dithered. ga AFL Scott (AplArtist, you are still up for a question after your comment (really a ques- AGR Guest2 We get 640 mode quality in 640. If you need solid proof, download the file AFL Scott tion is acknowlegded) AGR Guest2 that shows scans from the Feb 1990 issue of inCider and see for yourself. AGR Guest2 ga AFL Scott GA AplArtist AFL Scott Question time..:) Apl Artist Ok, heres a _friendly_ question.... Apl Artist what happens when the surface your scanning is not entirely flat? how does it Apl Artist handle the differance in the distance betwwen the paper and the scanner? GA AFL Scott Great Question!! I was wondering that myself!!!! AGR Guest2 It will handle slight bumps, but not large waves because a roller on the front AGR Guest2 must be rolling to scan. We have successfully scanned coke cans (make sure AGR Guest2 they're empty though), hands, and "filled" t-shirts. AGR Guest2 ga AFL Scott Followup, AplArtist? Apl Artist would it be possible to scann.... Apl Artist a textile pattern of some sort? if it was of a thin, flat material. AGR Guest2 In general, yes. ga AFL Scott GA Dave AFC DaveS Is the hardware itself capable of just black and white, with the software AFC DaveS performing the grayscale magic? GA Apl Artist ok, thats all, thanks. GA AGR Guest2 Exactly. The scanner is a b/w scanner; the software does some "magic." AGR Guest2 ga AFC DaveS DOne MarkS126 How come four inches scanner? Why not Eight or Ten inches wide scanner. Ga AGR Guest2 It's a "hand" scanner. A full page scanner will add about $400 to the price.ga MarkS126 Thanks, Done GA :) AFL Scott GA Tosh Tosh When you say Finder Icon format does that imply a size restriction when saved? AGR Guest2 Yes, there is size of restriction of 32kbytes, which is not recommended since AGR Guest2 the icon would fill nearly 100 desktops! AGR Guest2 ga AFL Scott Followup, Don? Tosh Cna you translate that to pixels? Tosh Like 40 x 20 or whatever? AGR Guest2 (Correction: 32k x 32k) You do have the capability of selecting a smaller AGR Guest2 size (such as 40 x 20). ga Tosh Thanks GA AFL Scott GA Marian!:) GuS Grafix How much memory (RAM) does Quickie require? Is there any advantage to having.. GuS Grafix more than the minimum required RAM? GuS Grafix Ga AGR Guest2 The minimum RAM requires 768k (to be safe). Extra RAM allows you to scan AGR Guest2 longer samples. AGR Guest2 ga GuS Grafix Thanks. Done.GA AFL Scott GA Apl Artist!:) Apl Artist Is there anyway to set up regestration so that multiple scans of a large page Apl Artist would be paralell, there by they can be pasted together with your favorite Apl Artist paint program? GA AGR Guest2 You could try using a book to get a perfectly straight scan. (If you come up AGR Guest2 with any nifty tricks, let us know). ga AFL Scott Followup, Artist? Apl Artist (Me no speak good english) followup... Apl Artist do you think it would be possible to set up some... Apl Artist template or whatever for the scanner to be guided through? AFL Scott Tracks? Apl Artist yes, like track. Apl Artist GA AFL Scott Howabout it... third party product? AFL Scott :) AGR Guest2 yeah, it might work -- give it a try. (Good idea Scott, third party) ga AFL Scott GA Dave AFC DaveS Assuming that the roller is part of a feedback control system, here's the AFC DaveS silly question: AFC DaveS What happens if you try scanning backwards? :) AFC DaveS You know, move a little down, then back up...GA AFL Scott Garbage? AFC DaveS Special FX? :) AGR Guest2 You get a really neat effect. Scanning backwards gives you upside down images. AGR Guest2 Forward halfway, then going back gives you a mirror image. ga AFC DaveS Reversed? AFC DaveS Neat! AFC DaveS I want one! AFC DaveS :) AFC DaveS Done AFL Scott GA Frank!:) BostnFrank Can you use a T-square or drafting machine, to guide the Quickie? ga AFL Scott Thanks for your patience, too!:) AGR Guest2 You sure can use a T square. It'd probably work real well. ga AFL Scott (After this question, we're turning protocol off for the remainder of the AFL Scott conference) AFL Scott Followup? MarkS126 Thanks, Vitesse BostnFrank Just that I want one too! AGR Guest2 You're welcome, mark AFL Scott Great!! I do too!!!!! AFC DaveS This replaces my lust for the Audio Animator :) AFL Scott Protocol is off!!! Feel free to ask questions at will... or even of will...:) AFL Scott First, though... MarkS126 I'm so glad and will have it in the future! bye!! Apl Artist I must apologize.......... AFL Scott I'd like to thank everyone for being so patient tonight..:) Apl Artist sorry AGR Guest2. BostnFrank It's worth the waiting. AFL Scott I'd also like to thank Vitesse for coming... I'm going to be talking to them GerryR5 Sounds like a great program! My husband is interested in it. :) Thanks! AFL Scott this week about a possible Direct connect area ala Virtual (Hi Harry) Realities AFL Scott Area... That way, we can all ask questions at will!:) AFC DaveS Yay! Tosh Outstanding product.....I'll be a customer soon!!!! Apl Artist did not mean to make cheap shot. AFL Scott I'm sure they understand, Apl! ;) No problem. BostnFrank I've missed some details (mail, etc). How fine a line can the Quickie Apl Artist Acually, I have'nt even seen a Quickee sample yet! :) BostnFrank read, like a fine engraving? AFL Scott Vitesse! Thanks for making it!:) We do however, need the sample files.. AFL Scott I'm going to keep your Guest account active for a about a week... during that AFL Scott time, please see if you can upload as many images as you have!:)) AFC DaveS Scott, the AGR Art Contest disallows scanned original artwork, I take it?