America Online Apple II Art & Graphics Forum Date: 4/20/90 Conference moderated by: W. Scott Gentry Edited by: Bo Jordan Topic: LightningScan GS Location: Graphics Chat Special Guests: Doug Penney and Brian Smith, of Thunderware, Inc. ------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------- AFL Scott Good evening. Welcome to the Apple II Art & Graphics Forum Conference for Friday, April 20, 1990. Tonight, joining us for this special event are Doug Penney and Brian Smith from Thunderware. Doug and Brian will be discussing Thunderware's newest product, LightningScan GS, as well as ThunderScan. Doug is primarily involved in software, while Brian is primarily involved in marketing. Before we get started, I'd like to remind you that winners of the second annual AGR Art Contest will be announced immediately following tonight's conference. LightningScan GS is Thunderware's entry into the hand-held GS scanner market. While the product is not yet released, it promises to bring competition to this new and exciting market segment with features such as full 320 mode support, full gray scale capability, and other nifty features. ThunderScan, on the other hand, is the premier scanning device currently available for the GS. ThunderScan uses an ImageWriter series printer and a special scanning cartridge in conjunction with special software to give you outstanding gray scale images on your GS or other Apple II computer--Oh yeah... There is a version of ThunderScan that works on that OTHER Apple computer, too... :) So without further delay, please join me in welcoming Thunderware representatives Doug Penney and Brian Smith to America Online! Welcome to America Online, Thunderware!!!!:) {S Applause} SCL Biblia {S Welcome} AFC JoyceM {S Welcome} AGR Guest1 Hi, gang, it's great to be online for the very first time! AFL Scott Doug and Brian, can you tell us a little something about LightningScan GS? AGR Guest1 Well, most of you may be familiar with Quickie, the _original_ hand-held scanner. Ours is similar, but _different_! AFL Scott Thank, Doug... Let's start in with some questions! :) AFC JoyceM Can you explain what the differences are (or will be) between LightningScan and Quickie? Thank you. AGR Guest1 Well, the software, for starters. We support all Apple II display modes: High, Double High, and Super in both the 320 and 640 modes. Scummie (as a rep of Vitesse) Quickie does support all the modes as well. The 320 mode is not yet in a finished product, though... AFC JoyceM I believe that Quickie supports High, DHR and Super and the II+, //e & GS! AFL Scott Thanks Joyce! Yes, Quickie does have a new package coming out, but let's concentrate on Thunderware tonight, gang!:) Thanks! AGR Guest1 LightningScan GS will ship with its own scanning software as well as both versions of ThunderScan software. You can see the difference that software makes by downloading the sample images that should be uploaded by AFL Scott after this session. AFL Scott Yup... They will be up and released tonight... GuS Grafix Will LightningScan be able to scan a full size page... or allow for some EASY way of merging the two halves of what I assume will be about a 4 inch wide strip of a page? AGR Guest1 The original software can scan full pages only by joining two separately scanned strips. Our SnapGuide will make it easy to scan the strips absolutely straight. GuS Grafix Thanks! RobertT79 Which scanner has the greatest resolution, Thunderscan or Lightningscan? AGR Guest1 ThunderScan in gray scale, LightningScan GS in line art. RobertT79 Thanks! Tosh When you speak of support for all graphic modes, does this mean scanning directly to a mode or... converting later on? AGR Guest1 LightningScan GS scans directly in both the 320 and 640 Super Res modes. The high and double high res modes are supported indirectly through ThunderScan software. The benefit of this approach is that you only have to scan something once. Tosh So one must switch software to convert the lower rez? AGR Guest1 That's right, Tosh. Tosh Thanks. AFL TimB Why are we seeing so many scanners suddenly arriving on the market? AGR Guest1 Well, the time has come. AFL TimB How are Thunderware's sales for the GS doing? AGR Guest1 ThunderScan is a hard product to beat. Its sales remain strong. AFC JoyceM When will LightningScan GS be available and price? Can user groups get a demo to show? AGR Guest1 We'll ship May 10. There will be a special user's group price. The retail price is $295. AFC JoyceM Thank you. Nikopow Will a trade-in be offered on the original? How do snap lines work? AGR Guest1 Seriously, for full page scanning and gray scale, ThunderScan can't be beat. Don't give it up! SnapGuide is a snap-on "wing" that provides a straight edge for scanning. Also included is a straight edge. GuS Grafix For those of us with Macs AND GSs, I understand that recent model Mac Thunderscanners will work with the GS, too, if one purchases the GS software... is this also true of LightningScan? AGR Guest1 Sure, we'll support people who use both Apple platforms so they can get the most from their investment. GuS Grafix Is there some sort of upgrade policy for people who have existing Tscaners... mine is an old one that is Mac-only and I'd prefer a LightningScan that will work on both machines. AGR Guest1 ThunderScan owners can "upgrade" to either the Apple II or Macintosh versions for a reasonable cost. The same will be true for LightningScan owners. GuS Grafix Details, please? AGR Guest1 ThunderScan/Apple II owners can purchase the Macintosh software and adapter box. TScan/Mac owners can buy the ThunderScan/Apple II software. LightningScan GS owners can buy the LightningScan/Mac software and SCSI interface. LightningScan/Mac owners can buy the LightningScan GS software and interface card. Call our customer service line at 415/254-6581 (fax 415/254-3047) for all the details. AFL Scott Whew! GuS Grafix Thanks! AFA Gene You mentioned gray scale and line (something) earlier. Can you explain exactly what difference this makes in the final output of Quickie vs. Lightingsccan? AFL Scott Good Question, Gene! AGR Guest1 LightningScan and Quickie have similar scanners, but our scanner is manufactured to our specs. If you have an accelerator board, you'll appreciate LightningScan's faster scanning speed. Our years of experience with image processing software has enabled us to derive higher quality gray scale from the dithered signal coming from the scanner. AFA Gene Umm.... does that mean there is no discernable difference in visual output? I think I get the "picture," AGRGuest. :) AGR Guest1 A picture is worth a thousand words. Download our images: they speak for themselves! Tosh What attributes/features/choices are available when scanning in 640, and which file formats are supported? AFL Scott (ie APF, PIC) AGR Guest1 Two gray scale modes and a line art mode for both the 320 and 640 modes. Contrast and brightness are fully adjustable too. We support ThunderScan (of course), Apple Preferred, and Paintworks file formats. Tosh Could you elaborate on the gray scales? AFL Scott In terms of what, Donald? Levels in 640? Tosh 16? 8? Yep. AFL Scott Thanks! AGR Guest1 4 levels of true gray in 640 mode, 7 levels of dithered gray in 640 mode, 16 levels of gray in 320 mode. Tosh Thanks. AFL Marty I recently purchased Thunderscan GS (haven't yet used it).... I was wondering whether the GS software included works with System 5.0.2. AGR Guest1 Absolutely! AFL Marty What's the purpose of the "Scan" file? Why should I keep it once I have my pic in APF format? AGR Guest1 The ThunderScan format will let you use the features of our existing software (edit palettes, etc.) and convert files into any display format. AFL Marty Thanks. Scummie (Robert of Vitesse) How is LightningScan interfaced with the GS? And, why did you mention that an accelerator was necessary for the speed? AFL Scott Good Questions!:) AGR Guest1 LScan GS connects via an interface card in ANY slot (including 3 and 4) LScan GS can scan faster with an accelerator card because we don't lock out interrupts -- Vitesse does. Scummie First, the Quickie card does work in slots 3 and 4, just not recommended. Secondly, we are scanning as fast as the data comes in... does this mean you have a modified scanner sending data more quickly? AGR Guest1 Do you say that it is not recommended to put your card in slots 3 and 4 because it doesn't work? Scummie No, the engineer who designed the card didn't want to take any chances with the interference with mouse/console firmware... I've successfully used it in slot 3, so... AGR Guest1 Quickie is limited by its hardware. LightningScan GS has faster hardware. Scummie Ok, thanks... GuS Grafix You mentioned SCSI interface before... I think I'm missing something... I already have a SCSI card in my GS and MacPlus has built-in SCSI interface... I guess I don't understand why LScan doesn't just plug into the SCSI card/port. (I DID say I'm missing something here :) AGR Guest1 LightningScan/Mac connects through a SCSI interface box. LightningScan GS connects through a slot. AFL Scott So, the software for the GS is written to interface with a card and not a SCSI device, then... right? AGR Guest1 Right. AFL Scott Does that help, Marian? GuS Grafix Yes, it does. Thanks AFL Scott Great!:) Next up is me... :) AFL Marty Scott, GA. AFL Scott I've noticed that in the change from TScan/P8 to TScanGS that a major difference is quite a subtle one... TAPE. Why does the GS version not require tape when the ProDOS 8 version did? AGR Guest1 Edge sensing tape is no longer recommended with any version of ThunderScan. AFL Scott Ok... But the scanner works so much better _with_ the white edge afforded by tape... I'm wondering if this is just a preference of Thunderware or if you guys are doing something with your scanners at Thunderware that I don't see? AGR Guest1 If your document has a straight white left edge, you should get the same results with or without the tape. If your original doesn't have a straight white edge, use the ROUGH EDGE scanning setting (or sandwich a white piece of paper slightly offset to the left before scanning and use the EVEN option. This is all explained in our latest manuals. AFL Scott Ok... Thanks!:) Scummie You mentioned two modes of greyscales earlier. Does this relate to two methods of post-processing, or to the dither switch on the left of the scanner, or something altogether different? (Thanks for puttin up with me.) AFL Scott LOL! :) AGR Guest1 Thunderware magic: we've been playing around with hand-held scanners for two years now and have uncovered some secrets... Scummie It's software then...? AFL Scott Dang... Robert... :( AGR Guest1 Buy one and find out! Scummie I guess we'll match wits in mid-May...;) GuS Grafix What are the advantages/disadvantages of the software being written to interface with your card/box rather than the GS/Mac's SCSI card/port? AFL Scott GREAT question!!! AGR Guest1 A SCSI interface for the GS would raise the price hundreds of dollars. GuS Grafix When I asked about upgrades earlier I was mainly asking about TScan to LScan... is this possible...or has it not been decided yet? AGR Guest1 Registered users of TScan will get a special price on LightningScan GS. GuS Grafix Thanks. Tosh Could you explain the palette editing in the TS software? Features? AGR Guest1 It allows you to substitute colors for gray scale. Tosh How is it set up? Sliders as in paint programs? AGR Guest1 There's a histogram control to show the distribution of grays. Then you can assign colors to the grays, granted it's not as sophisticated as some painting programs. AFL Scott I think I can help here.... Donald, you basically pick a color from the standard palette and assign it to a gray value. For those of you who don't understand the term "histogram"... it's basically a count of the color distribution throughout a given image... in Thunderscan's case... it's a graphic representation of the distribution of grays. Any other questions? Tosh So there is just the 16 color Standard 320 and 16 Dithered 640 colors? AFL Scott Ah..:) AGR Guest1 Yes, ThunderScan only supports the standard palette. Tosh Ok... got it. Thanks :) AFL Scott So, Donald, it helps to be the artist that you are when you go to colorize an image... :) Tosh :p AFL Scott I have but one final question for Thunderware... Are you sure this was your first time online??? :) AGR Guest1 Why do you ask, Scott? AFL Scott You've done a great job, tonight! Like seasoned pros!!!:) AGR Guest1 Thanks, it's been fun! Hope we're invited again soon... AFL Scott You will be, I can promise you that!!!!:) Thanks for coming, guys!!!! I'm sure everyone here will join me in thanking you for making this an enjoyable night!:) GuS Grafix Thank you very much, Thunderware and Scott and Bink, for a very interesting CO! {S Excellent} Tosh ()()()()()()() Scummie Thanks....you've been so helpful...:) AFL Scott LOL!:) GuS Grafix Thanks for livening up the discussion, Scummie :) Scummie Always willing... AFL Scott How about Thunderware? Do you guys want to stick around for the announcement of the contest results? AGR Guest1 Sure, we're interested in graphics. AFL Scott Great!!! Welp, on that note... A little background is in order! As most of you know, AGR in the month of March and the first week held our Second Annual Graphics Contest! This year's contest produced some of the best art on the GS I've ever seen... I think those of us who judged the contest will agree that it was VERY hard to decide just which picture met the challenge the best. Tonight, we announce the winners in the following categories... Double Hi-res, Hi-res... Super Hi-Res... And an Overall winner that represents the cream of the crop of ALL categories.. We're going to start with Double Hi Res and progress to the announcement of the overall winner... AFC DaveS (Anyone have any questions? :) AFL Scott BTW, the overall winner tonight has won over $500 in hardware and software. AFC DaveS Wow! GuS Grafix Wow! AFC BoJ Wow wow! GuS Grafix GMTA AFL Scott Finishing third in the Double Hi-Res category and winning a free one years subscription to Nibble is... Bevan Wang for his picture... Water Lilies!!!! Congratulations, Bevan!!!!! AFC DaveS ()()()()() AFC BoJ Yay! Hooray! Apl Artist ()()()()()()()()()() AFC DaveS Now where is he? He said he'd be online:) AFL Scott Finishing second and winning a free copy of Applewriter (donated by AFL Marty) of the Apple II Productivity Forum is... Pixel Wiz, for his painting... Vase Guide!!!!! Way to go, Wiz!!!! AFC BoJ ()()()()()() AFC DaveS Yay! Apl Artist ()()()()() AFC DaveS That was a good pic :) AFL Scott Now, we have a situation that happened to AFC DaveS last year... the first place winner was also the third place winner!!!!! Finishing FIRST in the Double/Hi Res category is... Bevan Wang for his wonderful picture... Reflections!!!!!! OFS, Bevan!!!!! Apl Artist Yeah Bevan! ()()()()() AFC DaveS Yay! AFC BoJ Hurrah! AFL Scott Bevan will get Pizzazz!!! The ultimate Hi-Res, Double Hi Rez program from Eric Soldan and ESS!!!!:) GuS Grafix Awright, Bevan! AFC DaveS That lucky sot! :) AFL Scott You ain't kidding, Dave!!!! Now for the SHR Category..... As most of us here in AGR know... that category was full of anticipation!!! Participants were meeting in this chat room to discuss their entries and to critique each other. I want to thank everyone who entered! This was the most spirited contest I've ever seen!!! Finishing Third for his OUTSTANDING painting titled... Viewing Chamber is Blacklore!!!! Blacklore takes home a copy of The Graphics Exchange from Roger Wagner Publishing, Inc.!!!!! Way to go, Blacklore!!!!!!! AFC DaveS Congrats, Blacklore! ()()()() Apl Artist ()()()()()()()()()() AFC BoJ ()()()() AFC DaveS Which version, BTW? :) AFL Scott The latest..:) GuS Grafix Congrats, Blacklore! AFL Scott Finishing second with what has to be one of the most outstanding single color palette pictures I've ever seen is.... MikeM138, for his painting of New York!!!!!! AFC BoJ Alright, Mike! :) AFC DaveS Single color? AFL Scott Mike takes home a copy of Salvation from Vitesse, Inc!!!!! Apl Artist ()()()()()()()()()()()()()()() Mike! :) AFC DaveS Alright Mike! Way to go! Apl Artist Dave, single pallete. AFL Scott Single color palette!!!:) AFA Binky {S Applause} AFC DaveS Oh. OK :) AFL Scott Now... For first in the Super Hi Res Category.... This picture was created a while ago and moved to the contest library by special request... It's by someone we all know here in AGR... He did a great job and continues to impress us with his artwork to this day! Mac Lir for his painting McLirs Child!!!!!! Apl Artist ()()()()()()()()()()()()()()() MacLir! AFC DaveS Hooray! Congratulations, MacLir! AFL Scott Mac Lir takes home a copy of HyperStudio!!!!!!!!!! AFC BoJ Yay Mac Lir! ()()() GuS Grafix Awright, Mac Lir!!! AFL Scott HyperStudio is produced by Roger Wagner Publishing!!!! AFC DaveS Is it autographed? :) Apl Artist Jezz, none of the winners are here! :) GuS Grafix They're too pooped from all the work they did on their entries, Apl Artist :) AFL Scott Now, I'd like to award an honorable mention prize to someone we all know is a very, very talented artist. One who at least showed up here tonight!!! AFC DaveS Uh, oh... the honorable prizes are the real kickers! :) AFL Scott Our honorable mention prize (yet to be decided, but I'll let the winner pick a prize... what the heck, I'm easy!!) winner is... Apl Artist for his wonderful painting of a DeTomaso Pantera!!!! Apl Artist :) AFL Scott Waytago, John!!!! AFC DaveS YAY!!! AFC BoJ Varoom, John! AFC BoJ ()()() GuS Grafix Congrats, John! AFL Scott I'll send you the prize criteria in Email if you send me your full name and address in Email!!! Apl Artist Cool. :) AFL Scott Now.. for the moment we've all been waiting for.... Bevan Wang Hi guys. AFC DaveS Some Amigoid here thought it was ray-blasted :) Apl Artist Bevan! Bevan Wang Dude! AFC DaveS Bevan, you dweeb, you weren't here and defaulted out of all your prizes! (Just kidding...congrats, dude! :) AFL Scott The announcement of the Overall winner of the Second Annual Apple II Art & Graphics Forum Art Contest.... is... AFC DaveS is... AFL Scott BEVAN WANG for his simply beautiful picture... Restless Spirit!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Tosh Yow! AFC BoJ Yeah, Bevan!! Alright!! Apl Artist ()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()() Bevan! AFC DaveS Wah? Wow! Alright, Bevan! Bevan Wang Thanks! Tosh What timing! Bevan Wang Don't know what to say. AFL Scott Bevan wins a Vitesse Quickie Hand-Held Scanner!!!!!!!!!!! Bevan Wang :) AFA Binky {S whooah} Bevan Wang YEah! Scummie Yeah! AFC DaveS Wah? WAH??? WOW! GuS Grafix Wheee....congrats Bevan! AFC BoJ Slick, dude! AFA Binky {S notbad} GuS Grafix Awright! Color me green with envy....Congrats, Bevan! AFC DaveS You slime, Bevan...you won three prizes! AFC DaveS :) GuS Grafix {S Excellent} Bevan, dude! AFL Scott Bevan, you need to send me your full name and address via Email so I can send you all your wonderful prizes... which include.... For finishing third in the DHR category... a years subscription to Nibble.. And for finishing first in the DHR category... A copy of Pizzazz.. the Ultimate DHR/HGR graphics program!!!! And now for winning the overall prize.. Your Quickie... shoot, dude.. do you know you're walking away with more than $500 worth of bootie? GuS Grafix He's worth it Scott :) Bevan Wang Yeah, but can I change it to cash... and not report it! :) AFL Scott Sorry!! Gotta accept it and sell it if you want after you get it!:) So say something so we can quote you!!:) Bevan Wang A quote, eh? AFL Scott Yeah...:) AFC DaveS "I'm goin' to Disneyland!" Bevan Wang :) AFL Scott LOL!!!! Well, Bevan, please don't forget to send me your name and address!!!:) I wouldn't want to keep the Quickie for myself!!:) GuS Grafix No, Dave, the U of R is NOT Disneyland... I hate to have to break that to you:) Bevan Wang :) Tosh I Vannna Quickie. AFC DaveS Marian: Markus says that one of the long standing plans at U of R is to build a monorail system...sounds like any amusement parks you know of? :) Scummie Well, congrats to all the winners. It's been fun, and remember... Nothing Beats a Quickie! AFC DaveS :) AFL Scott I should add here.. Vitesse was proud to sponsor portions of this contest!!! and.. Nothing beats a Quickie!!! Scummie Is that an endorsment? Bevan Wang :| AFL Scott Uh... I've never used one, Robert!!:) Tosh (This has been a paid politcal.........) AFL Scott Free Advert!:) But then, I like to have things last at least an hour!:) And BTW, I'm Damn Glad Vitesse did sponsor this contest!!! If they didn't I'd be in deep, deep, trouble with Bevan!!:) Bevan Wang :) AFC DaveS :) Apl Artist :) AFC BoJ LOL :) Bevan Wang I probablly would have not entered! :) AFC DaveS It's funny...Bevan's Art Teacher didn't think so highly of it at the "AGR Contest Entries" presentation I gave at Bevan's class :) AFL Scott So, I'm just happy that you all entered... in fact, DAR Systems International.. My second home here on AO has kindly offered TShirts for some of the higher placing finishers (who did not win), so I'm going to be sending out mail for them to send me their T-Shirt size and address and they'll get DAR T-Shirts! :) Thanks to everyone who participated in this year's fiesta...If I survive the coming year, look for the Third Annual AGR Art Contest next March!!:) I'm done!:) AFC BoJ I can't wait! :) AFC DaveS YAY! AFL Scott {S Food Fight} AFC DaveS Everyone better start now! :) ------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------- This transcript is copyright (c) 1990, NoseWorks, Inc. It may be uploaded to any information service/BBS, provided it is unedited. America Online and AGR... We've got the answers!