America Online Apple II Art & Graphics Forum conference log of December 14, 1990 edited by Dave Seah topic: Open Chat w/ JohnP location: AGR Conference Room --- START OF EDITED LOG --- AFL Scott Welcome to the Apple II Art & Graphics Forum conference for Friday, December 14, 1990. Tonight, volunteering to stick his head through the canvas of the old dunking booth is a good friend of AGR and America Online... John Pothier of Vitesse!!!:) Shekar 1 **Dunk!** AFC DaveS It's good ole John P! Yay! Vitesse <== Straps on asbestos undies...to take the heat! AFL Scott He kindly consented to be our special guest tonight at the last minute so let's all be nice and not try to hit the target too often!:) Vitesse Hey... AFC DaveS Hope the undies (or we, as one once said) give you a rash, John :) AFC Ted kinder and gentler dunking AFC DaveS Just leave the assault dunkers at home. Vitesse It just occurred to me that I'm a "published graphic artist"! AFC DaveS Really, John? DYA Jim1 coolness! :) AFL Scott So, John, what's happening in the world of Vitesse and how did you all do at Applefest? AFC DaveS Join the Art Guild! :) Vitesse I did the icons fro Salvation-Deliverance...w/ my own little pinkies. AFL Scott (no protocol!:) Vitesse Free for all! Food Fight!! Vitesse So... Vitesse at Vitesse, we're planning major mods to two well-known programs. AFC DaveS Uh, "So when's Quickie 3.0 coming out?" DYA Jim1 Great! Vitesse Right after the first of the year, Chris Warner will do an almost completely new Salvation-Bakkup... AFC DaveS Neatness! AFL Scott Great!! Vitesse with all of the things that y'all have been asking for. Vitesse Then, after that... he and Robert Morgan...and we hope anohter well-known expert will embark on Quickie's "Third Generation" software. ...with some _really_ neat stuff. AFC DaveS Wowness! AFC Ted Quickie: The Next Generation? AFL Scott Sounds good to me! I have a question on the ads in inCider... Vitesse Now, I can comment some on S-Bakkup...but it's not graphics. Vitesse As for Quickie...well, maybe some hints. Vitesse Shoot, Scott. AFL Scott In the ads there is mention of an "Across the scanning products" products... something that works with all hand held monochrome scanner heads... can you give us some info on this product? Vitesse What we're doing is to package everything in a Quickie _except_ the scanner head. That way, if you have a compatible scanner head from another system or from another platform all you need to "upgrade" is the "Upgrade Kit." AFC Ted Neat! Vitesse What you wind up with is this... The _BEST_ hand scanner software available for _any_ computer and the abiltiy to run InWords which we _all_ hope comes out soon since the Vitesse phones won't stop ringing!! GuS Grafix What constitutes a compatible scanner head, John? AFL Scott LOL!! I know I'm gonna get InWords when it's available!:) Vitesse Here' are the general "specs" on compatible scanner heads: AFL Scott (Talk about ESP, right, Marian?:)) Vitesse It's an "Omron Model 1700"... AFC DaveS That's cool! Does the kit come with a big Quickie sticker to stick on the old scanner head? :) Vitesse which is characterized by... 1. Yellow-Green LED light bar...no red-eyes 2. Letter-Photo switch on the left 3. Light-Dark thumbwheel on the left 4. 4-position DPI switch on the right. 5. _True_ 4-level DPI scanning...no "interpolated" stuff Vitesse BTW... Vitesse There are _many_ MS-DOS and Mac system that use this scanner head even thought the cases look a little different.... Vitesse The Model 1700 is about the most widely used and if a company buys enough of them it can have Omron put them in an case the company wants. AFL Scott Perhaps a "such as" addition with reference to the manufacturer and product name would help clear this up, some. :) Vitesse OK...but I don't recall too many of them. AFL Scott BTW, this is significant! Hurray, Vitesse!!! Vitesse ScanMan, GenusScan, >>>LightningScan<<< are among them. I'll get a _real_ list and post int in our DC area...OK? GuS Grafix Ah, sounds like my old Thunderscan Mac won't do the trick :( but 'tis STILL great news, John!! AFL Scott John Pothier is our special guest! Vitesse [Who?] IIGS MATT Could you tell me about Platinum Paint. AFL Scott Did I mispell your last name again? GuS Grafix =============[}John P. ;) Vitesse [I can say, as a user, that it's really a great piece of software.] GuS Grafix <---getting rowdy early :) AFL Scott LOL! Marian! IIGS MATT I heard it had some bugs in it. Vitesse [Dead on, Scott! Was being facetious.] Vitesse I have an early version... AFL Scott <---wiping sweat from brow! Vitesse It has a few small ones that I've heard have been fixed. AFL Scott Matt, yup, it's got some bugs, but nothing too serious as to affect anyones decision to purchase the software. I just got it at Applefest, and it's really impressive! IIGS MATT See, I'm not a computer art super drawing type person, and DPII seems good to me, and i was wondering what you guys thought of it. GuS Grafix How much will this software-only package go for, John? Vitesse Well, it includes the interface card, too...and the SRP is about $130 which means that the discounters will have it for about 2/3 of that amount. Shekar 1 Platinum Paint rules! Vitesse The "upgrade", Marian? GuS Grafix yes AFL Scott Agree, Shekar! Shekar 1 :) AFC Ted It's real nice. I just got it and have only dabbled with it a bit, and even still, it's impressive. Shekar 1 What is the name of the Beagle Bros. rep online? IIGS MATT But is it REALLY worth buying, if you're not a real computer artist? AFC DaveS It will take a Mighty Program indeed to sway me from DeluxePaint II. AFL Scott Mark Munz, Shekar. He frequents AGR. :) Shekar 1 Thanks. Shekar 1 Dave, PP rules. AFC Ted I would say yes AFL Scott Yo! John!:) Vitesse Dave... AFC JohnC Hi Scott AFC DaveS I heard it doesn't have multilayer zoom :( GuS Grafix Paintworks Plus, shekar?? (just kidding, tehetehe...) Vitesse In working up some background screens for S-Bakkup... AFL Scott I'll check that out right now, Dave.. The GS is free, now. :) Vitesse I found there were some times I needed a special tool from DP II but in general, PP is the best all-around program...IMHO. AFC DaveS Hmmm...high praise indeed! IIGS MATT I know this is off the subject, but can I download the new IM driver? AFL Marty On the other hand, Beagle won't abandon their product support (like some companies who make paint programs have done). AFC DaveS Excellent point, Marty! AFC Ted Why would you want an Instant Message driver?:) Vitesse Agree, Marty. IIGS MATT Image writer!!! AFC DaveS So you wouldn't have to answer them yourself, Ted? :) Shekar 1 Mark Munz... screen name? AFC DaveS You mean without the rest of the system disk, Matt? Vitesse ...and Matt Reimer is _dedicated_...and still has many things he wants to do. IIGS MATT yes AFL Scott You're right, it doesn't have multilevel Zoom...:( AFC DaveS MMunz is the screen name. AFL Marty Sure Matt. Just download System 5.0.3. The driver is on there. Shekar 1 Thanks, Shekar 1 Dave. AFL Marty It's not available apart from System 5.0.3. IIGS MATT oh. 4+ hour download is a LITTLE much! Shekar 1 My P8 doesn't work with 5.0.3. Vitesse Shekar...was that an echo of 2001? AFC DaveS I live in the magnify mode of DPaint II. Lately I've been really lazy with drawing tools because I just rough out my stuff with pencil and Quickie it in. AFC Ted When 5.0.4 comes out, I believe it will also come as an update disk. Shekar 1 Huh John? AFC Ted It has bug fixes for both ImageWriter drivers Vitesse Shekar, you _need_ P8, V1.9. IIGS MATT I don't have a hard drive, so I very rarely use any of my system disks Shekar 1 I know. Shekar 1 Its still doesn't work. AFL Scott I haven't seen 5.0.4, yet, but I hope it comes as a complete download with two disks since installing system software without using the installer is really a risky move, at best. Vitesse [Shekar...I meant the "Thanks"......Dave."] Shekar 1 Oh! Shekar 1 :) AFC DaveS Even I got that one...and I haven't seen the movie :) IIGS MATT when is 5.0.4 coming out? Vitesse Was reminiscent of a famous scene in the movie. AFC DaveS Hi Joyce! :) Shekar 1 Stil, I have P8 1.9 and it tsill doesn't work with 5.0.3. AFC Ted RSN AFL Scott I don't know, Matt. I haven't seen it. AFL JoyceM Evening all :) IIGS MATT hi Shekar 1 With HyperCard GS I believe. AFC JohnC Hi Joyce Vitesse Dave...you should. It is excellent...and technically impeccable. AFL Scott Hiya, Joyce!!! John Pothier from Vitesse is in the dunking booth tonight!:) Shekar 1 Hiay Joyce! Got the passes to AFest! Vitesse {He says as an MS in Astro Engineering.] AFC DaveS Personally, I like a good blaster in my space movies. I will make a point of seeing it, John. AFL JoyceM Great, Shekar :) AFL Scott Hiya Tag!:) AFA Tag :) Scott AFC DaveS Hi Tag! Vitesse When I was in grad school, we devoted an entire Orbital Mechanics class period to trying to find a technical flaw. Zero! IIGS MATT bye all AFA Tag :) Dave Shekar 1 John can ya help? That P8 doesn't work.. I get "Sorry, ProDOS 8 is not a cvompatible version": Shekar 1 RESTART AFL Scott Night, Matt! AFA Tag I was trying to get Mike Nuzzi's attention:) AFC DaveS You can't use the P8 from the ProDOS 8 System Disk...you gotta use the one Vitesse Wow, Shekar...dunno. Did you change Basic.Launcher, too? Nuzz Yu got it Tag, was in mail AFC DaveS that is distributed on the System 5.0.3 disk. AFL Scott Sounds like you didn't use the full update of System 5.0.3 Shekar. :( Shekar 1 Oh... I used the other one. Shekar 1 Dave can you send me the right one? Vitesse Dav'e got it, I'll bet. Rename System/P8 to ProDOS for "outside" use. Vitesse BTW, may I ask a "market research" question? AFC DaveS But...but...distributing System Software without a license is a crime punishable by Deatherage! AFL JoyceM Sure, John :) Vitesse OK... Shekar 1 Oh jeez................................ AFC Ted LOL Dave AFL Marty Don't you have 5.0.3 Shekar? Vitesse If we were to do a version of the Quickie "Third Generation" software that could run w/ "Brand T"'s scanner & card... do you think T-Scan owners would go for it? Shekar 1 It's just P8... I use once in a blue moose. Shekar 1 Yes that's moose. Shekar 1 Marty I do but not P8 correct version! AFL Marty How'd that happen? Nuzz <<< Blatant Plug Alert >>> AFL Marty 5.0.3 has the right version on it. AFL JoyceM They should, John....but don't know if they would :) Shekar 1 No way John. Let them wallow in their misery!! >:) Vitesse Shekar...you're cruel. Nuzz I just uploaded a sample scrren of art from Triads new HyperStuff Collection.. AFL Marty You mean hand scanner John? Nuzz Check it out..... GuS Grafix <---this Tscan owner would, if it would allow a Tscan M*C to run on a GS ;)... Vitesse Yes, Marty. GuS Grafix very very old Tscan model, BTW. Shekar 1 A nasty friend who put MIDI Drivers on it and deleted P8 to fit them. AFL Marty I should think they would. AFC JohnC John I think they would love it....the ability to do things that they can't now AFL Scott Great, Mike!:) Vitesse Marian...I'll E-Mail you. Might have an idea. AFC DaveS Oooh! New Art! AFL Marty Assuming the software is superior to what they get with TScan (a VERY AFL Marty safe assumption IMHO) AFL Marty No backup Shekar? AFC DaveS That Marty...he's no risk taker :) AFL Scott So, that's the problem, then Shekar.. you need the version of P8 that comes with the system disk. Vitesse Remember, I'm talking "Third Generation"..._beyond_ the current Quickie. WBBear john, have you talked to Rod nelson who's running Apple Fontrix/Printrix users WBBear They do big graphics. etc AFL Scott I can't wait to see the third generation stuff, John, and I applaud Vitesse for its commitment to the AFL Scott Apple IIGS world! Vitesse Nope, I haven't personally... Vitesse though I've had Fontrix since my IIc days. Shekar 1 BRB Shekar 1 on the GS WBBear They have a TSCAN convert utility. AFC JohnC {S APPLAUSE} for Vitesse AFC DaveS *applause* AFL JoyceM And that TScan utilitiy is great! Vitesse _I_ lead the applause for Chris Warner and Robert Morgan. Vitesse What does the utility do? AFC DaveS Can I ask a "market" oriented question here? WBBear Do you know if that convert would work for Quickie? Vitesse [Need to know what it does, Bear.] WBBear Converts TSCANS for use in Printrix/fontrix Vitesse Oh... Vitesse Probably wouldn't... AFL Marty [AFPC, 4286 Redwood Hwy., Suite 247, San Rafael, CA 94903] AFL Scott Sure, Dave, ask away!:) Vitesse I believe a TScan file has "extra" info attached. AFL Marty (415) 898-9031 AFC DaveS It's about the Art Guild...I was wondering what everyones perception of that sad, lonely place was at this point in time. AFC DaveS Is it the wallpaper? I can fix it :) AFC Ted Was it just a summertime thing? AFC DaveS I hope not...it might be a holiday/break kind of thing with most people :( Shekar 1 Hello... this is certainly weird! Shekar 1 I haven't used AO on my GS fo months! AFL Marty Last couple of times I went to the meetings I was the only one there. AFC DaveS It seems OK to me, Shekar :) AFL Scott Hi Shekar.. perception is reality. Always remember that!:) AFC Ted How do you usually access the system? Shekar 1 Ick I just remembered how much i hate text, it stinks! AFC DaveS Yeah...I missed the last two or three Guild meetings :( Shekar 1 Mac Mac Mac <> Nuzz I use the Genie GS software. AFL Scott I think the lack of participation in the Art Guild is entirely my fault. I was too wrapped up in programming to devote a decent amount of time to promoting the events and attendance. This will change.. drastically. AFC DaveS *slap slap slap* Vitesse Yeah, Shekar...I see it sometimes misspells on you. *:^) AFC Ted --------========[} (Shekar) AFC DaveS No no no no, Scott...it really should be my job to promote it...you shouldn't have to do EVERYTHING around here :( AFC DaveS And look what happened...you wrote Allison! The Greatest Boon to GS digitizing in the Apple II Universe! GuS Grafix Dave....since _I_ don't have the talent to even THINK about joining Art Guild.. AFC Ted What do you think it will take in terms of promotion to get it on its feet ? GuS Grafix I gotta admit I'm one of the non-contributors on this end. sorry :( ... AFC DaveS Marian, there is no prerequisite to joining the Art Guild. You just have to have questions. GuS Grafix BUT... Vitesse Scott...is it true that you used 9-bit bytes to make Allison even better? AFL Scott ROTFL!!!:) AFL Marty 8 1/2 bit bytes John. AFL Scott 9 bit bytes... git outta here!!:) AFC Ted And who is it aimed at? AFC JohnC Marian...just Quickie things then colorize with PP.....your an artiste' GuS Grafix you would be even sorrier if you saw my efforts at artwork ;) AFC JohnC :) Nuzz whats an extra bit amogst friends Vitesse That's what i needed to get the last few blocks on the S-Supreme.A disk! AFC DaveS So the Art Guild seems a bit intimidating to the neophyte artist? Uh oh. AFC DaveS How can we tone-down that image? GuS Grafix <---can't draw a straight line, even with the shift key down to constrain movement ;) AFC DaveS The secret, Marian, is to not draw straight lines :) AFC Ted Is the word "Guild" threatening? AFC JohnC lol Marian AFC DaveS We changed the name from Artist's Guild to Art Guild in hopes of reducing the threatening tone of it. AFL Scott John, that's a piece of work! I've only heard glowing things about Salvation Supreme! AFL JoyceM If you all read the book, "drawing with the right side of the brain' - it claims that everyone can draw!!! Shekar 1 See y'all... going back to the Mac for AO (resounding "boo's" are heard). AFL Marty Dave... one of the things I was looking forward to was the tutorials on PWG and DP II. Vitesse Ted..I think it _does_ imply "a developed talent." AFL Marty Now that Platinum Paint is out, I wouldn't mind a PP tutorial instead. AFL Scott Frankly, though, the name sounds like a butter substitute...:) Just kidding!:) GuS Grafix Joyce, that's a book I've been meaning to get...you're the second person to mention it favorably! AFC DaveS I was at a loss how to draw up a tutorial. How do you teach someone how to draw? AFC DaveS Or at least give them the confidence to play with their paint program? AFC JohnC Great idea Marty...it sure would help me also AFL JoyceM Very good and written by a woman!!! (yea) AFL JoyceM Marty is always thinking :) AFL Marty I saw some tutorials in back issues of GS+ magazine that were very well done. AFC Ted I thinks its helpfu to keep picking at specific techniques AFL Marty Not so much how to draw as how to get certain effects... and how to use the various tools. AFC Ted helpful AFC DaveS Hmmmm...reinforcement of the basics, Ted? AFC Ted yes AFL Marty Start with the first tool in the menu and work your way down. AFC DaveS I'll have to try and make some tutorials this Christmas Break. AFC Ted That is, if we want to appeal more to beginners AFC DaveS Hey, that's a good idea, Marty! Think up some interesting uses for the tools! AFL JoyceM Which side of the menu, Marty...the left side or the right ? (just kidding) AFL Scott Doesn't that subvert the information in the manual, though? I mean they have a pretty good tutorial section in the PP manual as it is, now. AFL Marty That's true Scott. AFC Ted <---hasn't had time to work thru manual yet:( AFL Marty But a tutorial would serve to reinforce what the manual says. AFC DaveS Can't hurt :) AFL Marty And it might point out areas where the manual is weak. AFC DaveS A Creative Guide to Paint Programs...we won't be another manual. AFC JohnC Got to run....AUT at 11:00...thanks all AFC Ted Hi Ethan ATB EthanA Hi all! :) Vitesse How about doing what Bill alexander does? AFC DaveS Seeya, John! Thanks for dropping bye! AFL Marty You could give away free hours too. AFL Scott Don't get me wrong, I think anything that is done to help people gain knowledge of paint programs is great, but the biggie from that end is to not simply focus on one program... AFL Marty If you need some, just ask me. AFC DaveS Hi Ethan :) Vitesse That is, show a finished picture at the beginning... then show and describe each step in creating it? ATB EthanA Hiya Dave :) AFC DaveS That's a good idea, John. Vitesse ...er, ?=. AFC Ted How to use the Lasso? AFL Marty That's how the tutorials in GS+ were done, John. AFC Ted How to had shading & Modeling? AFL Scott Make it general so people with other programs can benefit, too! Exactly, Ted!! ATB EthanA Scott.. Did you look at those Amiga pictures? Are they real good? AFC Ted had=use (I'm deeply tired) AFL Marty "Anti-aliasing is Your Friend" ATB EthanA I just made several pictures with Platinum Paint.. There certainly are some problems... It crashed several times :( AFL Marty (whatever anti-aliasing is :) AFL Scott I haven't had a chance to, yet, Ethan. AFC DaveS :) ATB EthanA Who released em? Dave? AFC DaveS Are they in the Art Guild lib? AFC Ted I think it should be called "Fuzzing Up" or "Blurring" or "Smoothing" AFC DaveS Hey, Apl ARtist! ATB EthanA No ;) I guess that it would be Bo then AFC DaveS "Shaking the Jaggies" :) Apl Artist Dave! Ethan! :) ATB EthanA Hiya Artist ATB EthanA !! :) AFC DaveS We was talking about the Art Guild...apparently, it invoked you, JJ :) Apl Artist Hi Scott. Hi Ted, nice to meet you. :) Apl Artist hehe. :) ATB EthanA Platinum Paint has a lot of strange problems: When you use the lasso to move something, it really messes up the picture sometimes. AFL Marty "Schmoozing" AFC Ted Hi Apl Artist. You may have seen me before as Ted38 ATB EthanA Also, the manual states that when using text, if ypu hit ctrl while you type it will shadow... instead it just inserts strange control characters. AFL Scott John! Welcome back!! ATB EthanA Anybody else have these problems? AFC DaveS Hey, that's what usually happens when you hold down the control key and type :) Apl Artist How much is Platinum Paint? AFL Scott Ethan, have you tried different fonts? The problem might be the font you desire doesn't have a shadow defined (but then I really know zilch about fonts). AFC DaveS $49.95 w/paint program manual cover? ATB EthanA Scott... Well, each font has different characters, but that is an inreresting point. Apl Artist Wow, thats all? AFC Ted $54.95 as an upgrade...send in a Xerox(tm) of any paint program manual cover AFC DaveS Does that include shipping, Ted? AFC Ted (49.95 + 5.00 shipping GuS Grafix the $54.95 does AFL JoyceM Ted, I thought the cover had to be an original cover, not a copy? AFC DaveS Most Excellent! AFC DaveS I'm ripping up my PWG manual right now! :) AFC Ted Copy is ok....that's what I did AFL Marty I don't have a Xerox. Can I send them a Canon instead? AFC Ted Shure ATB EthanA Marty :) AFC DaveS *slap* :) Apl Artist Its been a while, but could I ask a question about a GIF viewer? AFC DaveS Sure, Apl. Shoot! AFL Scott Sure, John, fire away! AFL JoyceM Night all....thanks. AFL Marty :) Vitesse I saw a post recently from Mark Munz (B Bros) Sez _copy_ is fine; no need to r Apl Artist what is GIF viewer 3200? ATB EthanA Bye all... see ya later :) AFC DaveS It's Jonah Stich's kick-ass gif decoder. Blows away SHRConvert 2.1 in terms of speed, and can do 3200 color conversions from GIF! AFC DaveS It's only up to revision 0.2, though. AFC DaveS Used in conjuction with GIFsave...we really have some budding GIF processing capabilities now! Apl Artist You mean, it can display 256 color pictures with no prolpems w/scan lines and the like? GuS Grafix And that is ANY paint program cover, not just a GS paint program! AFC DaveS There's always that limitation, Apl...but it does some excellent conversions. Apl Artist hmmm.... :) AFC DaveS There's some in the libs. AFC DaveS Aw, go ahead and download it from Direct Connect Bad Luck Software and DYA! Apl Artist I shall return... :) Apl Artist DYA, yes, thats right... AFL Scott Whoops... wife wants me... I have to run... I'm sorry gang... I promised my wife I'd do something tonight and have let it slip... :( AFC DaveS It's a can't-lose download. It has the Dave Seah Chew Marks of Approval on it! AFL Scott I'd like to thank John Pothier from Vitesse for his last minute contribution and for being our special guest tonight! We're all really happy with the great things Vitesse and John in particular are doing for all the GS faithful! --- END OF LOG --- This transcript is copyright (c) 1990 by NoseWorks, Inc. It may be uploaded to any information service/BBS provided that it is unedited.