------------------------------------------------------------------------------- America Online Apple II Art & Graphics Forum Date: 6/01/90 Conference moderated by: Marty Knight (for W. Scott Gentry) Edited by: Bo Jordan Topic: What looks good in a HyperStudio stack / Open discussion Location: Graphics Chat ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- AFL Marty {S Welcome to AGR} AFL Scott can't be here tonight. I'm filling in for him. AFL Wiggy Ack! Marty? What do you know about art??? :) AFL Marty The topic tonight is Hyperart. AFC DaveS Marty is a work of art. :) AFL Marty Not a damn thing, Wiggy. :) That's why we have all these AFCs! AFC Tosh He knows what he likes! AFL Wiggy Well, I've heard him described as a piece of... Nevermind. AFL Marty Ack! AFL Wiggy :) AFL Marty So... who wants to start off the chat? AFC DaveS Wanna introduce the chat, Tosh? AFC Tosh Why don't we jump right in... I know one thing about stacks which I don't like seeing... AFC BoJ What's that? :) AFC Tosh Its that damn MENU BAR. AFL Wiggy I agree... I wish people would remember to get rid of that thing. AFC BoJ Not having it really cleans a stack up. AFC DaveS Wondered how to get 320 quality out of 640 mode pictures for your stacks? Well, Donald McIntosh (AFC Tosh) is here to answer all your questions and fulfill your deepest desires! Welcome, Tosh! :) AFC Tosh Thanks Dave. AFL Wiggy That's what I was about to ask, Dave. :) AFL Marty I wish there was a command to make the menu bar disappear on all the cards in the stack with one command. AFC Tosh People should put a note at the beginning of a stack to get rid of it first. Topino I know how (bet most people do too!). AFC Tosh Go ahead Top... tell us. Topino OK... Well, you gotta put this XCMD in the directory where your stack and 320 pic is. There are 2 XCMD's that will do the job... they are exactly the same. These are: The slide show XCMD... and the Show 320 pic XCMD. There is 1 difference though! AFL Marty And that is? Topino The Slide Show XCMD will wait for a mouse click before it takes you back to the previous card, while the Show 320 pic doesn't. AFC Tosh I think the menu should be gone on all screens... not just for full page art.:) It can ruin the feeling of being inside a card. AFL Marty Let me ask you techie types a question... Is it possible to display both 320 and 640 mode on the same screen? Simultaneously? AFC BoJ In HyperStudio? AFL Marty No... theoretically speaking. AFC Tosh <- Over my head! AFC DaveS Dunno about HyperStudio. What kind of pictures can the 320 mode XCMD load in? Topino Let's ask RogerWagner! Dave: I believe all types except 3200 colors. :( AFC BoJ It's possible... but I dunno if HS will do it. AFL Marty Here's what I was thinking..... If this is possible, it would be a good way to let folks use 320 mode art in a graphic item on a 640 mode HS card. AFC DaveS Perhaps someone can write a CMND that sets the scanline control bytes after loading the picture, or modify an existing one. Topino Good point! AFC Tosh Perhaps if you could load in large color pix (256,3200) you could get that impression, Marty. Topino I know someone that might write an XCMD for 256 and 3200 color pics... hmmm. AFC Tosh Perhaps Jonah? Topino Someone else in my mind. ;) AFC Tosh Do it! Topino Tosh: I'll try talking him into it. AFL Marty What I'd like to do is to preserve as many colors as possible (320 graphics area) while keeping the nice looking fonts in the 640 mode and text areas. Topino That would be awesome Marty! AFL Marty The XCMDs you mentioned earlier are nice, but they really represent a compromise. You can't have buttons on the 320 mode pic being displayed. AFC BoJ Wouldn't an entire horizontal line have to be devoted to a single mode? (It would be cool if just ANY section of the screen could be in a different mode!:) AFL Marty I don't know, Bo. That's why I asked the question of the techie types. AFC BoJ <- definitely not much of a techie. Topino <- me neither :( (yet:) AFC DaveS Maybe you could see how mixed modes worked by doing this: Install the "Visit Monitor" CDA, boot HS, pop up a screen, then OA-CTRL-ESC and pop into the monitor... Diddle the SCBs manually. AFC Tosh Can you get back to HS after that , Dave? AFC DaveS Yes, you can... just type ^Y. AFL Marty How complicated is that to do from a programming standpoint? AFC DaveS Trivial, but I dunno how XCMDs work. Topino Marty 320 <> 640 modes? AFL Marty Diddling SCB's, Topino. Topino Oh! AFC BoJ I wonder if RWP would consider including mixed modes in a future version of HS. Topino I'll mention it! AFC Tosh I'm sure he's thought of it... if it's possible! Topino I'll remind him again, then. ;) AFL Marty Anything's possible with the proper motivation, Tosh. :) AFC Tosh :) AFL Marty Even if you need to devote an entire horizontal scan line to one mode... that's still better than devoting an entire screen to it. AFC BoJ Has anyone else used ShowPicNDA for grayscaling 320 pix for use in HS? Topino ME! AFC DaveS No. How is it? AFC BoJ I used it and got decent results (but they WERE in grayscale...). Topino Pretty nice! AFC DaveS How about FixPic? Topino SHRConvert doesn't do a great job compared to ShowPic. AFL Marty Medley has a nice greyscale conversion function, too. AFC BoJ I think FixPic simply changes the modes of the picture, but doesn't doodle with colors (I haven't checked, myself). AFC DaveS It's a 320->640 mini-palette (16 dithered colors) conversion program. It attempts to map the closest colors from the 640 palette into the closest equivalents. Topino Where can I find this? AFC DaveS It's in AUT. Topino Thanx! AFC DaveS I should upload it to AGR too, since I keep mentioning it :) AFC Tosh Sounds good... kinda like Paste ADJ Colors in PWG? AFC DaveS Exactly, Tosh. Lucky24 I'd like that too... AFC BoJ Have you used it, Dave? Topino Yes Dave, do that! AFC DaveS Yup, I've used it. AFC BoJ How were the results? AFC DaveS Works better, though it has a few weaknesses... AFC Tosh Like what? AFC DaveS Dithered pictures don't come out very good, and digitized grayscale don't come out either. But, that's to be expected. It's really sort of designed to convert 320 mode pictures into something suitable for a Finder background screen. Topino Growl! AFL Marty I like the Paste Adj Colors in PWG. They give a pretty good approximation to the original colors. AFC Tosh You just loose the shading, though...:( AFL Wiggy Thanks, Dave... That's just what I have been looking for!!!!! AFC BoJ It only converts to the "standard" 640 colors? AFC DaveS Where is Rose? She's usually bubbling over with conversion questions. :) AFC Tosh She works the hardest at it! AFC DaveS :) AFC Tosh Marty have you seen the DTP program she loves so much? AFC DaveS Which DTP program is that? Topino Which one? AFC Tosh Seven Hills. AFL Marty Which one is that? Lucky24 So what about Hyperart? Anything new with the new HyperStudio revision? Topino GW III!!!!!!!!! AFC DaveS GraphicWriter III? AFL Wiggy I have been using GWIII. I really like it. Topino Me too! AFL Marty I have that program, but to be honest with you I haven't used it very much. So many other things to keep abreast of. AFC Tosh Probably... she loves the paint routines. AFL Wiggy The paint routines are great... I find it the easiest of all DTP programs... and full featured. Topino When Seven Hills is done getting rid of the 40 something bugs, it should be AWESOME! AFC DaveS What is the latest revision for HS? I don't have it, myself. AFC Tosh 2.1? AFL Marty 2.1. AFC BoJ I haven't gotten my HS update, yet. Lucky24 I haven't got mine in the mail yet, but I got a flier on it... AFL Marty I haven't received HS 2.1 yet, but I have sent away for it. Also sent for the new clip art disks. AFC Tosh Check those boxes Lucky! ;) AFC DaveS I had the opportunity to play with NeXT, Sun 3, Sun 4 workstations in the past 2 days... Topino I'll be playing with a NeXT Monday! AFC Tosh :) Lucky24 How about a color NeXT? Topino Cool looking machine! Topino Coming soon to a BusinessLand near you, Lucky! AFC DaveS The Suns don't have anything over what we got, fun-wise. I just read the Vaporware column... dunno WHEN the color Next is coming out... sources say 4th quarter will be the release date. Topino Well, when it does, it will be Awesome. Mr. Jobs owns a big chunk of PIXAR! AFC DaveS Wah! Lucky24 Yeah, I read Murph's column too... interesting stuff. AFC Tosh I wish you could change the background color in each stack or card. Does anyone know if that's possible with an XCMD? AFC DaveS How are XCMDs called? AFL Marty You mean keep the rest of the card the same and vary only the BG color? AFC Tosh With a button, Dave. AFC DaveS Does the screen clear? Or does the XCMD just run? AFC Tosh Well, if black is better with a new card, then use it or red for the next... etc. AFL Marty When you add a button one of the choices is to link it to an XCMD. AFC DaveS Can you have it run automatically without pressing a button? Sir Pogo Uh, aren't palettes separate on each card? AFC Tosh Yes they can be, Sir Pogo. Topino How about editing commands on a button? You must call an XCMD Dave. AFC BoJ You can have timed buttons, Dave. AFL Marty You can have buttons automatically activate after a certain time. Ramjet7 Good for demos! AFC Tosh I was thinking about the background color, but that would be a call to the Control Panel... AFL Marty There's an XCMD that does something close to that Tosh... it changes the BORDER colors. Topino It's a great XCMD by Steve Allan! Ramjet7 Steve Allens XCMD? AFL Marty Right. Topino YES! AFL Marty Borders Plus. Ramjet7 Right! AFC Tosh Sorry. Yes that's what I mean Marty. Out there ->. Topino They can be found right here in AGR, right guys? Sir Pogo Yep. AFL Marty Oh... that XCMD is in the Studioware library. Topino Thats right! AFC Tosh Terrific. Lucky24 Roger Wagner's selling an XCMD program with the HyperStudio upgrade. AFL Marty Whatcha want to do with it? Topino DL these guys! I bought that! AFL Marty Right, Lucky. I ordered that too -- and the source code and the license. Lucky24 Yeah, looked interesting. Did you get yours yet? AFC BoJ BTW, you can access Studioware via AGR AND APR, right Marty? :) AFL Marty AGR, APR, and AED. Not AMS. Sir Pogo Can you access it from AMS anymore? AFL Marty No longer. AFL Wiggy Thanks for getting the AED in there, Marty! :) AFL Marty :) Topino RW is also selling a graphics clip art, right TOSH :) Sir Pogo AND sounds... AFC Tosh HMM, I think so... ;) AFC DaveS :) Ramjet7 Yes. Topino I got it! AFC DaveS I hear it's pretty good. Sir Pogo No, I was saying (And Sounds) that there is a sound disk, also. AFL Marty Yep... I bought those too, Pogo. AFC Tosh What kind of art do people need the most? AFL Marty Geez... I bought just about everything. :) AFC DaveS Just don't buy the farm, Marty. :) Topino Dunno, it depends on the project. :) AFL Wiggy I happen to like small clip art... Icons and stuff. Lucky24 Anyone here have a Quickie? Topino I wish! AFC DaveS Tosh does a mean icon on the half shell. :) Tosh just got one, Lynda! AFC Tosh Icons make the best buttons! AFL Marty I'm planning to purchase one. AFL Wiggy I don't... but I got to use AFL Dennis's Quickie. It was really neat. Topino 2.0 of Quickie will be awesome! AFC Tosh Its outstanding! Lucky24 Well, I bought the first one... and I'm beta testing the new software. AFC DaveS It's amazing what you can do with 640 mode. Tosh made me see the light. :) AFL Marty There's a bunch of Icon clip art in Scott & Marty's Excellent Clip Art library. AFL Wiggy I like the ability to save as an icon. Topino BTW, LightningScan GS is shipping :) AFC BoJ What types of clip art are included in your disk set, Don? AFC Tosh For 640 it is amazing... Had it about 5 hours. Everything... school business computer stupid stuff. AFC BoJ I like stupid stuff. :) AFL Marty Nakked wimen. :) AFC DaveS Nekkid wimen? AFL Wiggy Nekid wimmin???? Whaere??? AFC BoJ Gasp! Not nekkid wimen! AFL Marty Can you comment on the new software, Lucky? Topino Fast as always. :) AFC Tosh Marty converted a lot of icons to 640 art. Topino 2.0, that is. :) Lucky24 Yeah; it's really neat. Still needs some work, but it has 320 mode, and gray scale. AFC DaveS Where? Nekkid Wimmin 2.0? AFL Marty Nekkid Wimmim NDA. Topino Now Nakkid Wimmin INIT! Sir Pogo In MGR. AFL Marty 320 mode color, Lucky? Topino YES Marty! Awesome ha? Lucky24 Nah, you have to use a paint program. Topino Paint program for what Lucky? AFL Marty Still, that's good! Lucky24 For color. Topino Paint program for editing palettes. Sir Pogo Color?! Topino It can Scan 320 very nicely, though! AFL Marty Since the Quickie came out, I've been seeing all kinds of things to scan with it. I sure wish I had one. Topino You guys aware that they're considering a FULL page scanner? AFC DaveS I wanna scan penciled artwork... how does the Quickie perform on it? AFC Tosh Terrific Dave. Scanners will make the clip art available explode! It's so easy! AFC BoJ A flatbed, Topino? MartyS8 I'd wait for LightningScan GS! Topino Nope! AFC Tosh I scanned some of my kids drawings... works great! Topino Its a hand scanner like Quickie! AFC BoJ Just wider? AFL Marty I've heard good things about LightningScan, too. BCS Frank Wow... are you going to be able to scan checks and send them by modem? AFC DaveS A page wide? Lucky24 Has anyone seen the hand scanner from Thunderscan? I hear it's NOT out yet. Topino It scans full page faster than a fax can feed paper through! AFC DaveS I've only seen LightningScan at AppleFest. AFL Marty By the way, Thunderware will soon be in the Direct Connect areas of AGR and APR. Topino LSGS was shipping yesterday! Ramjet7 Lightning Scan looked better Afest AFC Tosh LS is great, also. It's software wars between the two. Time will tell. MartyS8 IT scans 16 grey shades. AFC DaveS They had the 320 scanning ability... I hope that Quickie 2.0 software will improve on it. Topino Wait till ya get a load of Quickie 2.0. :) Don't be quick to judge, guys! AFC Tosh Can't wait, Topino! AFC DaveS I dunno if it really is 16 gray scales... the demo pictures I saw looked like about 9 shades of gray, or the contrast was pretty bad. AFL Marty That's what Lucky was just saying. He's beta testing the new Quickie software. BCS Frank Wait til Lightning gets a look at Quickie 2.0. AFC Tosh Demo's are always a loaded deck... Perfect artwork... brought by the person demoing. AFL Marty Scan Wars GS. :) Topino The one with the best software will win. AFC DaveS There is a LightningScan demo pic in AGR somewhere... anyone else see it? The scan job is nice, but there really are only 9 used levels of gray in the picture. AFC BoJ I have... the one with the guy in the middle of the... Topino They use the identical scanner head, guys. ;) AFC BoJ Yeah, Topino. AFC Tosh I hope they both do well... It can only help. Topino Competition = innovation! AFC Tosh Roger Wagner should package one with HS! AFL Marty I'm told that just about -everyone- uses the same scanner head. AFC DaveS The scanner head they use seems to be pretty popular in the Amiga and Atari ST markets, too. Pick up an Atari or Amiga rag sometime, and look at their scanners... same scan head! AFL Marty The software is what will make the difference. Topino How would you guys feel about a color hand scanner? Or color flat bed scanner? AFC Tosh All gooshy. Why? AFL Marty Depends on how much it costs. Topino State your price! AFC DaveS I wouldn't go for it, personally. Lucky24 Color scanners cost big bucks $$$. Topino WHY? AFC DaveS Unless the GS's graphics got significantly better. AFL Marty How about free? Topino C'mon! BCS Frank Free with the new Paintworks Platinum! Sir Pogo -$99999999999999999.99? Topino PWP! AFC BoJ Yeah... free is better than $2.50. :) Topino Seriously! AFC Tosh All right, Frank! AFC DaveS :) AFL Marty How can you say "seriously" and "state your price", too? AFC DaveS Paintworks Platinum? AFL Marty I know what the Quickie costs. A color scanner would have to be more expensive. BCS Frank Ya kind o grit yo teeth... Topino Because I'd like to hear both. :) AFC DaveS The rumor surfaces yet again! Topino Rumor? AFC Tosh 300 Topino... maybe more. Lucky24 Yeah, let's hear some good rumors. Sir Pogo $350. AFC DaveS The "new paint program" rumor... it's hard to nail down. Sir Pogo LCCM?????? BCS Frank 12 giga colors, including 13 shades of UV... ... tan while you scan... AFC BoJ LOL! :) AFL Marty Suppose it costs another $150. I can color a LOT of pics with a paint program for $150. AFC Tosh It's not from BB... Topino NOT a rumor... a virtual reality :) AFC DaveS "Scan electromagnetic wave phenomena into the sub-angstrom range!" Is that a hint, Topino? :) Well, I wanna beta test it! :) BCS Frank Find out if beaches really are Mandelbrot... with electron-scanner... AFC BoJ Yeah... is that a hint, Topino? AFL Marty hmmm..... infrared scanning :) BCS Frank ... virtual rumors... AFC DaveS That's a neat name. AFL Marty Did we ever determine what kind of clip art people want? AFC DaveS Nope. Topino Yes. All types. ;) AFC DaveS Quick Poll Time! Topino Oh oh! AFC BoJ Stupid stuff! (was that it, Tosh?) AFL Marty I got another question... AFC DaveS There should be a "Stupid Clip Art" contest. :) Topino Shoot! AFC Tosh Or do they want large stuff or icon type? BCS Frank Clip art: CD ROM of major museums... AFC DaveS "The Donald McIntosh Bathroom Amenities Collection." MRB6 How about Electronic symbols for AWGS? Lucky24 Yeah, I'd like that... Let's see... how about a Cupertino clip art disk? AFL Marty How do you guys keep track of what clip art is under what file name? BCS Frank They use colored disks. Topino View them and write em down! AFL Marty You mean with a pencil? Topino Thats what I did with PrintShop clip art! AFC Tosh <- On disk label... general type. BCS Frank No, with a NDA notepad. AFL Marty (I think that's what it's called :) My problem is that I've got so much clip art, I spend more time finding the artwork I want to use than I spend actually working on the project. Foreigner1 So what's up for Apple graphics? Topino Nothing....... :( Lucky24 Nobody likes clip art here. AFC DaveS Lots of stuff, Foreigner! AFC BoJ We're discussing art for use in HyperStudio. AFC Tosh Or make a GDL Label with the Art on it! ;) AFC DaveS Art Guild is being formed! Not right now, though. Topino Can I join? SCL Biblia Doesn't BRAC sell a program that catalogs PS Graphics and fonts by reading the disk and then printing it out on paper? AFL Marty We're taking a poll... what kind of clip art do you want/need? Lucky24 GDL... that's a rather nice program AFC DaveS Everyone can join! :) BCS Frank -Art Guild- ?? Topino YES Biblia! AFC DaveS There will be a CO sometime in July, I think, about the purpose and direction of the Art Guild. Foreigner1 Nothing? Why not? Geez -> Lots is happening? AFL Marty Yep... Print Shop Lovers Utility. Nuzz Thanks, Lucky. AFC Tosh Printouts are my best suggestion Marty... Hard copy of each page in color. Topino Good one Tosh! AFC DaveS It'll be an "Artist's Support Group" sort of deal, Frank. BCS Frank Artists of the Network, Unite! Foreigner1 Tosh, that works, but lots of time and ribbons! Lucky24 Is that yours, Nuzz? Topino Marty: print them out in 50% reduction. :) AFC Tosh In a nice neat Binder. :0 SCL Biblia Would seem to fit your needs, Marty. AFL Marty I was afraid you'd say that. AFC Tosh Good Idea! Ramjet7 Clip Art button for HS (Not using an invisible button)???? Nuzz Yep, mine and Marty's. AFC Tosh 4 to a page or so. AFC DaveS Beginners and Experts are welcome... I'm supposed to be putting together some kind of "training program" for beginners. Topino No way! AFL Marty By the way Tosh... I'm putting together a Font Sampler. AFC Tosh Great! BCS Frank Any handy multicolor laser printer (with correct drivers) will do. AFL Marty I'm up to the letter "E"... it's gonna take a while. AFC DaveS You betchya, Foreigner. AFC Tosh A word for use in 640 Art is easy to get with a scanner too! As I've discovered. AFC DaveS I've got access to a QMS Color Postscript printer. :) Topino Lucky you, Dave! AFC DaveS Hehehe! :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This transcript is copyright (c) 1990, NoseWorks,Inc. It may be uploaded to any information service/BBS, provided it is unedited. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------