------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------- America Online Apple II Art & Graphics Forum Date: 5/04/90 Conference moderated by: W. Scott Gentry Edited by: Bo Jordan Topic: Digitizers... What do you use? Location: Graphics Chat ------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------- MASTER 999 What is the best video input color digitizer for the IIgs? Aeolius1 Not AST VisionPlus! AFL Scott Best? Hard to say... I personally like Visionary GS! :) MASTER 999 How much is it? AFL Scott About $289, I think... Programs Plus may have it cheaper...:) DonnaH Who uses what digitizer, and on what machine? Aeolius1 I use AST VisionPlus. (okay, stop laughing!) AFL Scott I use, in no particular order: Thunderscan, Visionary GS, and ComputerEyes GS. GuS Grafix I use Computer Eyes on my GS and Thunderscan on my Mac. The only reason for a Tscan on Mac is that Thunderware will not upgrade my unit to one that will work on both machines. :( DonnaH I use ComputerEyes GS. AFL Scott On the Mac, I use ComputerEyes/Pro. MASTER 999 I want a video digitizer for my IIgs. Is Visionary a card? AFL Scott Yes... it's a modified AST VisionPlus! Very, very nice card. GuS Grafix Bought the Tscan before there ever WAS a IIGS! ;) Aeolius1 Do any other digitizers work in "real time" like AST does? MrKen1 Thanks Binky, I'll let you know what happens...I appreciate your help. AFL Scott Not ComputerEyes, Aeolius... and really, AST doesn't work in realtime, either. It's about half realtime in B/W and 1/4 realtime in color! Aeolius1 Well, Scott, in b/w mode, it's close! AFL Scott Uh, close, but only half realtime..:) Uh, don't ask me how I know. I'll just say I can't talk about it, yet! ;) AFC JoyceM What can't you talk about, Scott? AFL Marty How do you know, Scott? :) <-- troublemaker AFL Scott Why AST Vision Plus is only half realtime in B/W..:) and BTW, Visionary GS is only half realtime, too... :) BUT, Visionary GS is considerably cleaner, and bug free... no random crashes. And I can't say how I know that. AFC JoyceM BTW, I was impressed with Quickie, but want to see LightningScan before I make any decisions there. AFL Scott I personally want to visit the RWP booth at Applefest tomorrow to check out LightningScan GS. AFC Tosh Crowded booth, I think... Nuzz is there, too. Aeolius1 I thought AST stopped its GS digitizing efforts, and I've never heard of Visionary. AFL Scott Well, Virtual Realities, Inc. purchased the rights for AST VisionPlus and modified it, and are remarketing it as Visionary GS. There is significant improvement! Virtual Realities has a Direct Connect support area here in AGR. AFC DaveS What did they modify? Any idea? Aeolius1 Is it worth waiting for, or should I look into ComputerEyes? AFL Scott Well, I'm biased, Aeolius. I'd wait for the new software if I were you. You will be impressed. Aeolius1 I admit the near real-time feature is one of my favorite features! It makes for great special effects! AFL Scott BTW, Virtual has an upgrade policy for AST VisionPlus users! Aeolius1 Excellent, Scott!! When is it available?? AFL Scott Welp, hard to say, Aeolius, but I'll bet it's going to available in about one to two months.. but you can purchase the upgrade now, and Virtual is shipping transition software as well as beta PerfectView software with the board. Aeolius1 Is there any address to send a request to? AFL Scott You can E-Mail them here on America Online at "Virtual", Aeolius! Aeolius1 Thanks, Scott! You've sold me on the upgrade! Err...what's the upgrade cost? :) AFL Scott Thanks for asking!:) I really don't remember... You can find that in the Virtual Realities Direct Connect area here in AGR!:) Aeolius1 Scott, have any idea how many heads a VCR needs for a clear paused screen? I think it's four or more, but am not sure. SCL Biblia You should have at least four heads... AFL Scott Depends, Aeolius.... four is great.... Although, I've gotten pretty good results with one that only has three... it just takes more fiddlin'. Of course, the best freeze frame is a digital freeze frame. SCL Biblia I'vew gotten acceptable results with a 2-head machine, but I didn't know how good it could be until I got a 4-head machine. Aeolius1 Yep! I know that feeling! Capturing a screen, only to have LINES over it! AFL Scott Really! It seems the more you spend, the better results you get! AFC Tosh What a surprise :) Aeolius1 Hehe... sounds like an Apple philosophy to me! Omega Man I always use my camcorder, since it has the best freeze with SP. My digital VCR only freezes well with EP. SCL Biblia If you watch your dollars and shop carefully, you can get a 4-head machine for $500 or less. AFC BoJ You can get a GE 4-header for about $300, can't you? Omega Man Or, if you have about $1400, get a Sony digital S-VHS with jog.. SCL Biblia I got a JVC 750U for $500 out the door, but you could probably find a comparable VCR for less. AFL Scott I have a Mitsubishi SU-81 that's pretty hot... it's got all I'll ever see myself needing... SVideo, digital freeze in all modes. Omega Man Has anybody used the color ComputerEyes for color? I always get too much green. AFC Tosh You are right about the green, Omega. Try a really clean, white balance. Daylight is best. I get the best scans using a sunny window as the light source. AFL Scott Ah! Omega.... are you going from a camera? If you use a camera, Omega, and Tosh.... be sure to use daylight-balanced lighting. I've had great luck with that setup. BUT, I absolutely hate the new GS software that came out about six months ago. AFC Tosh Why Scott? AFL Scott Why do I hate the GS software? Simple. It's not as good as the ProDOS 8 software. I have never gotten a clean scan with it. AND, I had to patch it to get it to work on my system. SCL Biblia Scott, don't you realize that will give them an excuse to release a new, improved version? AFL Scott I just hope they do it soon, Leonard!:) Omega Man How about from a prerecorded tape, like Batman or Last Crusade? :) It seems too sloppy. AFL Scott Omega, if possible, take a test image, adjust the colors and then turn off automatic calibration! Or, use the ProDOS 8 software and calibrate on a black and white scene. Omega Man Ah, I see.. never thought of that... but, I don't have the P8 software. I need to get a Visionary. Aeolius1 Can anyone recommend a good animation demonstration, available here, on AO? AFC BoJ Ellipsiods, Aeolius. It's good. Aeolius1 Slightly of the digitizing topic... is Kurta's IS/GS worth the money? AFL Scott I don't have a Kurta, Aeolius, but I've heard good things tonight... Omega Man I was suprised to see Thunderwares new scanner. Has anyone tested one out yet? Lemieux Anyone interested in about twelve fractal drawing programs? Anyone interested in fractal programs? Got some today in the mail. AFL Scott Twelve fractals... Well, if you have got them, you can clue us in! Emmet2 Kerry C2 has a NDA in the works (I am a beta tester for it) that allows fractals from the desktop. It is a great NDA. It will be released soon, she assures me... I think there is a prerelease version available around here, somewhere. Apl Artist Cannot figure out what numbers to punch in to get good fractals. :/ Lemieux Apl Artist, I will try to upload them tonight. They are pretty good. AFL Scott Thanks, Lemieux! Omega Man I wish someone would remake Paintworks Gold into a 256 v5.0.2 version... :( AFC Tosh Yeah, Omega! TCAguy Thats for sure Omega Man. Apl Artist They did, and it's called 'Studio/8', and its for the Mac. It's cool. Omega Man But is it as good, like the user interface? I like the way you can see the whole screen with PaintWorks Gold. AFL Marty Has anyone bought the rights to PWG, by the way? AFL Scott Ya, it's a shame, too, John.. in case some of you don't know, Studio/8 is a direct copy of PaintWorks Gold and DeluxePaint II, merged. BTW, Beagle Bros has a paint program in beta now, Omega! TCAguy I use PaintWorks Gold to color ComputerEyes pictures. AFC Tosh Who puts out Studio/8? Apl Artist Electronic Arts. Omega Man Studio/8? Why is that so familiar? Is that Beagle's new paint program? Apl Artist Lemieux, the past inCider issues have had fractal BASIC programs. Lemieux These are mostly SYS16 programs. Most of them use the pull-down menus. They don't take too long to generate the pics, either. I have the cordinates that draw out an insect somewhere at work. Apl Artist Really? I got a couple and they take forever. If anyone is interested, I have sorce code in Pascal for a fractal woodgrain program. AFL Marty ORCA Pascal, Apl? Lemieux Are you talking about Fractal Explorer? That is slower than a rock. Fractal woodgrains?? Apl Artist Yup, wood grains. Acually, its pseudocode, but could be easly figured out. I will try to type it in this weekend. It's not too long. Topino What do you guys think about Dream Graphics? Lemieux Scarry!! SCL Biblia Nightmares... Lemieux I would like to see it, though!! AFL Scott Me, I like the features list, Topino! I think it would be an excellent program! AFL Marty I wouldn't mind making graphics of some of my dreams :) SCL Biblia Marty, I'd want the censorship rights to some of my dreams! Apl Artist Marty, use the new Vitesse REM capture board. AFC Tosh The What? AFL Marty I attach that with clip leads to the bolts in my neck, right? Apl Artist REM = Rapid Eye Movement, also known as dream sleep. Lemieux Can I use the Vitesse card in an already occupied slot? AFL Scott How are you going to fit two cards in one slot, Lemieux? Lemieux Not sure. I mean if the printer port is in use, can I stick the card in slot one? Topino How about a list of things you'd like to see on DG? Topino Any news on Quickie's new software? Alright. Who do you guys think will better support the product? AFC Tosh I like Vitesses attitude. Topino There we go! AFL Scott I don't know how good LightningScan is compared to Quickie, but I can suggest that you download both of their sample files from our libraries and compare for yourself. Omega Man They look exactly the same. Lemieux I'm a proud owner of Vitesse software products. SCL Biblia Is LightningScan/Thunderware lined up for a conference in the near future, Scott? AFL Scott Thunderware was on two weeks ago, Leonard.... There is a log of the conference in our libraries!:) They are also coming on board as Forum Developers as soon as they get me the information I asked for!:) SCL Biblia Thanks, Scott! AFC DaveS Cool! Omega Man What ever happened to TurboRez? AFC Tosh And their booth space? Topino I think its on display at Afest (beta #2). I'm not sure, though. Apl Artist I wanna be a beta tester! :) Omega Man I hope they get a final product out soon.. Topino So do all of us, but what's the good news on it then? AFL Marty AFA Gene mentioned last hour that Turborez was at AFest. To quote him, it's "AWESOMEEEE." AFL Scott They are there... in the Tri-State Apple users group booth!;) I'm going to be talking to Bill St. Pierre tomorrow about the board and about future plans. It's only a prototype right now, Topino... it's using demo software but is completely transparent to the GS SHR graphics. So, that means that your GS apps run just fine with TurboRez present. Omega Man I wonder what would happen if Apple put 256 colors in the next GS... AFL Scott I wonder that, too, Omega... but I don't know what Apple is planning. :( AFL Marty (Apple doesn't know what it's planning, either :) Apl Artist Apple, if they plan to drop the II, should sell the rights to some company like AE or someone who would do it justice. Omega Man Na, they would never drop it. AFL Marty (or sell to Laser Computer :) Omega Man I hope Thunderware, Vitesse, and Virtual all put out 256 color software when this comes out... :) AFL Scott I get the feeling the Virtual will, but I doubt Thunderware or Vitesse will be able to. Lemieux Does the Quickie directly put the graphics into any graphics program? AFL Scott Lemieux... if you have an application that uses the Clipboard properly, Quickie has an NDA that can put graphics there. From the Clipboard you can paste directly to the application. AFC Tosh I think Quickie will save to APF files, which are usable by most paint programs. AFL Marty Topino... where is that post on the PaintJet you mentioned? Lemieux Does anyone make a color scanner for Apple? AFC DaveS Doesn't Sharp make a color scanner for the Mac? Apl Artist Yes. AFL Scott Any color scanner for the Mac can now work with the GS. However, software must be written to use the features of that scanner on the GS by interfacing with the SCSI driver. A developer did write a demo for Apple that used the Apple Scanner and the new SCSI board, though.. perhaps Apple will put it out. Again, no one knows but Apple. Apl Artist Oooo... AFL Scott I for one, would like to see a color scanner for the GS. Omega Man You never know what lurks behind that door in Apple marked "Top Security Only Apple II Division". :) Apl Artist Scott, are there any _fast_ GIFing programs for the IIgs? AFL Scott Just SHRConvert, and it's slow as molasses. Apl Artist Grrr. Too slow. AFC DaveS What's SHRConvert written in? C? AFL Scott It's written in a mix of assembly and C, Dave. The GIF routines are C and use Sane (from what I've heard). AFC BoJ That's what it says in the SHRConvert help files :) AFC DaveS I lost my help files years ago :) Topino I heard from someone who seems to KNOW, that Apple is releasing new drivers for tape drives and more SCSI peripherals. AFL Scott They're right, Topino... Apple is making those drivers available to developers who wish to market products along those lines. And I should add that it's no big secret. Topino When do we (regular users) get them? AFL Scott Dunno that... I suppose they will be available through APDA shortly.... just like the new MidiSynth tool will be. Topino I also heard that System 6.0 is due THIS month... if not, next month. Tell me about it! AFL Scott Dunno about that. GuS Grafix Now THAT would be nice, Topino! AFC DaveS So did anyone get to hear the MidiSynth demo today at AppleFest? AFL Scott Apple just sent it to me today, Dave... it's nice. :) And to top it off, no non disclosure!:) But it's beta. Topino How nice? AFL Scott MUCH better than SoundSmith, Topino. Topino Will SoundSmith take advantage of this? AFL Scott I dunno...Parik Rao is the hot dude on Soundsmith, but I really don't see any advantage in not using the MidiSynth tool. AFL Marty That's been beta forever. I wonder when they will release the sucker. AFL Scott They say in the cover letter that it will go beta to APDA this month. GuS Grafix Any word on whether HyperCard GS is really coming or what? AFL Scott I dunno, Marian. AFL Marty I've heard nothing, Marian. GuS Grafix Thanks, Marty. Hmmmm... sometimes I wonder if APPLE has any idea which way they're running these days. AFC Tosh I think it is... Omega Man It only seems logical... but whoever said Apple was logical :) Lemieux How can I join APDA? Topino Yeah, how do you join APDA? AFL Scott You dial 1-800-APDA and ask for an application. 20 bucks or so later, you're a member! ;) Wait, that number isn't right... Anyone know the right number? AFL Marty You don't need to be a member to purchase stuff from APDA anymore, do you? AFL Scott Dunno... I know you need to be a member to purchase Beta stuff. AFL Marty Oh. That could be so, Scott. Topino Is that right? Apl Artist Topino, Dream graphics sounds cool!. . . Topino Let me hear your input guys! AFL Scott I really want that, too... you don't know how much I want it. AFC DaveS Does TurboRez have unlimited 256 color placement? Does it overlay on top of GS video? AFL Scott Turbo Rez has no restrictions, and it can overlay on top and beneath Apple IIGS graphics. ------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------- This transcript is copyright (c) 1990, NoseWorks,Inc. It may be uploaded to any information service/BBS provided it is unedited. ------------------------------------------------------------ -----------------