John wrote: > But can multiple Apple II's be networked together and what are they > using? AppleTalk? And at what speeds? And what can be done? Wasn't > LocalTalk ports and the AT protacal designed for the Apple II machines? > Because it seems in the Mac world that the AT protacal and the LocaTalk > ports are very slow. I know at my UC I've connected to machines before > using direct AT and not using TCP/ip, and things seem allot slower. LocalTalk and Ethernet are wiring specifications. AppleTalk and TCP/IP are communication protocols. LocalTalk (230.4 kilobits-per-second, or about 1/4 megabit- per-second) is much slower than Ethernet (10 megabits-per- second with modern implementations at 100 MBs or 1000 MBs). AppleTalk can run over LocalTalk or Ethernet. TCP/IP can run over Ethernet. I doubt there is a way to run TCP/IP over LocalTalk. See http://www.ops.org/tech/bas_netwk.html -- Paul R. Santa-Maria Monroe, Michigan USA John wrote: >>LocalTalk and Ethernet are wiring specifications. > >Thanks. But can multiple Apple II's be networked together? I agree with Paul--it all depends on what you want to do. The same applies to _all_ forms of networking. It is only in the "modern" world that networking has come to be synonymous with the "standard" TCP/IP set of services. And as Paul and others have pointed out, that expansive set of services is not now, and will likely never be, available for 8-bit Apples. However, having said that, there is a fair amount that _can_ be done! Take a look at NadaNet on my web site. It is currently more for programmers than for users, since it is a toolkit that allows peer-to-peer communication among 8-bit Apple II's. I'm about to publish a significant update, which will provide an ampersand interfact to NadaNet services, add a remote operation service for slave machines (with or without keyboards and displays), and two new primitive services for writing parallel programs on a network of Apple II's. NadaNet now comes in versions for ProDOS machines, DOS machines, "bare" (AppleCrate) machines, and, soon, IIgs machines running ProDOS. It now resides at the upper end of memory, out of the way of BASIC and other programs. But, to get an idea of what it can do, take a look at the current (June) version on the web. It's not file sharing, but it can be used to implement file sharing! -michael Check out parallel computing for 8-bit Apples on my Home page: http://members.aol.com/MJMahon/ "Paul R. Santa-Maria" writes: > LocalTalk and Ethernet are wiring specifications. > AppleTalk and TCP/IP are communication protocols. > AppleTalk can run over LocalTalk or Ethernet. > TCP/IP can run over Ethernet. That's all correct. The usual source of confusion is that early on, before there was such a thing as AppleTalk over Ethernet, Apple routinely used the term "AppleTalk" to refer to both the protocols and the physical medium (which later became LocalTalk). There is also a third network physical layer commonly used with Apple II and Macintosh computers, PhoneNet. It is essentially LocalTalk over twisted pair telephone cable. > I doubt there is a way to run TCP/IP over LocalTalk. Actually there is. It was often known as "MacIP". IIRC it was originally supported by the Kinetics Fastpath, and later by other routers such as the Cayman Gatorbox and the Telebit NetBlazer LS. Eric In article <1gmybmn.vmpqv11gq885uN%email@DELETE_THIS.luddite.no-ip.com>, Simon Williams wrote: >Eric Smith wrote: > >> There is also a third network physical layer commonly used with Apple II >> and Macintosh computers, PhoneNet. It is essentially LocalTalk over >> twisted pair telephone cable. > >I always thought that was LocalTalk... so what is the hardware >configuration for a _proper_ LocalTalk network? Shielded twisted pair with a 3-conductor round plug (one conductor unused). Sometimes called DIN-3, I don't know if they really are. The Localtalk boxes were self-terminating (mechanically removing the connectors connected up the terminator); PhoneNet required an extrernal terminator.