Subj: GS/OS Booting on hard drive 88-10-22 14:20:00 EST From: Gy813 Msgs: 34 (89-02-11) im trying to install the GS/OS on my hard drive and cant get it to boot. i keep getting file not found for the file: start.gs.os even though its in the system subdirectory??? any ideas? thanks george Subj: Re: GS/OS Booting on hard drive 88-10-22 17:23:38 EST From: Dave Lyons Beats me--did you use the installer to install the files? (Shouldn't matter, as long as you get the files in the right places & don't have anything extra lying around from the old system disk.) What exactly does it do? Any error codes? What kind of hard drive, what slot? Are you trying something weird like booting into the second partition of your drive? (Probably won't work under GS/OS.) Subj: Re: GS/OS Booting on hard drive 88-10-22 20:26:44 EST From: Matt DTS George: Sounds to me like you're trying to launch the file PRODOS from ProSEL. For some strange reason, that won't work. The file PRODOS on System Disk 4.0 does not always reboot the system when it's launched. Simply boot into the hard drive (set the startup slot and press control-open apple-reset) and all will be fine. --Matt Subj: Re: GS/OS Booting on hard drive 88-10-23 12:23:48 EST From: JSchober Matt... You CAN boot GS/OS from ProSEL, you just have to take a roundabout approach to doing it, comme ca...: Program Title: Boot GS/OS Prefix : ? Application : ] <=== run BASIC.SYSTEM first Startup Path : ?GSOS Now... all ya' gotta do is rename PRODOS from System 4.0 (PRODOS is the loader file -- a 4 block critter) to GSOS, leave it in the root directory, and make sure the SYSTEM/ directory contains everything you DO need (START.GS.OS, GS.OS, the FSTS/ folder, the DRIVERS/ folder, the SYSTEM.SETUP/ folder, the TOOLS/ folder) and nothing you DON'T need (stuff left over from System 3.x -- the only System 3.x stuff that'll work with GS/OS are desk accessories, fonts, and certain setup files...). Good luck! :) Subj: Re: GS/OS Booting on hard drive 88-10-23 15:00:09 EST From: Gy813 im using a 30meg Datamac hard drive which is comaptible with the Sider drives. its partitioned into 2 volumes. when i boot the drive its in dos 3.3 and there is a menu item to boot into prodos. when i boot into prodos i t takes me to basic. from there i tried running the prodos on my ie GS/OS loader file i presume...it gives me a error $46 file not found for the file start.gs.os....yet its in the system directory?????? any ideas?? thanks george Subj: Re: GS/OS Booting on hard drive 88-10-23 18:01:11 EST From: Dave Lyons George, how can BOOT INTO PRODOS take you into BASIC if you have GS/OS installed on your hard drive? Is it loading the PRODOS file from your hard drive, or it is loading an image of PRODOS 8 from the DOS 3.3 partition? I know the Sider software used to work that way, but later versions of it (Rev C and D, I think) actually loaded PRODOS from the ProDOS partition, which is what you want to do. If your drive is doing what I think it is, you're getting ProDOS 8 loaded from the DOS 3.3 partition, and it's finding BASIC.SYSTEM in the main directory any running it. At that point some people have had -PRODOS work for them, but it isn't guaranteed to. You *might* try converting the PRODOS file from System Disk 4.0 into DOS 3.3 and copying it in place of whatever file gets loaded when you choose "Boot into ProDOS". --Dave Lyons Subj: Re: GS/OS Booting on hard drive 88-10-25 18:40:18 EST From: Gy813 that is correct. it is loading dos 3.3 then bloading a prodos file, making several pokes then doing a call to start prodos? does this make any sense? ive tried just -PRODOS once its in basic but that where i get the file not found error $46 for the file called START.GS.OS ???? should i convert the system 4.0 prodos to dos 3.3? if so how? thanks george Subj: Re: GS/OS Booting on hard drive 88-10-25 21:01:21 EST From: Dave Lyons Try using System Utilities or any other ProDOS -> DOS 3.3 conversion program to convert PRODOS from System Disk 4.0 to a DOS 3.3 floppy, and then use a DOS 3.3 copy program (one that came with your hard drive) to copy it to your drive. Actually I'd recommend upgrading your drive's software so that it actually reads PRODOS from the ProDOS partition directly. It will make it easier to update yoru system later. Subj: Re: GS/OS Booting on hard drive 88-10-26 23:25:28 EST From: AFL Vince FCP is informing people that the only way their early drives that allowed op system partitioning will work properly with GSOS is by changing the roms on the controller card and making the drives all Prodos. The roms are offered by a 3rd party company. There is a folder in the Hardware forum here with comments from a chat the other night with the FCP rep. The newer Siders that are all Prodos dont have any problems that I know of. On the old drives, you have to boot GSOS with from a 3.5 before your hd will be recognized. Subj: Re: GS/OS Booting on hard drive 88-10-27 09:58:14 EST From: MikeW50 Just to throw a monkey wrence in the works: I'm using a Sider, which still has the old ROMs, and it works fine with GS/OS. Mike Westerfield Subj: Re: GS/OS Booting on hard drive 88-10-27 22:30:25 EST From: Matt DTS Here's the problem, to the best of my knowledge: Sider's old, Multi-OS ROMs don't seem to initialize themselves for ProDOS until a low-level READ call is issued to them. During the boot process, the first thing the generated driver routine does is send it a STATUS call. If you're booting from power-on and have not used the drive yet, it will not be initialized and will return "Device Off-Line", to which GS/OS says, "Hey, I can't generate a driver for you if you're not there." This only shows up if you boot GS/OS from some drive other than the Sider. If you do, dropping into ProDOS 8 (BASIC.SYSTEM will do) and coming back will magically make your Siders appear upon thy desktop. --Matt Subj: Re: GS/OS Booting on hard drive 88-10-28 19:16:15 EST From: Gy813 and how are you booting into GS/OS ??? george Subj: Re: How do *I* boot? 88-10-28 20:16:27 EST From: Matt DTS Well, *I* have the ATG all-ProDOS ROMs in my Sider ][, and I'm quite pleased with them. Here's what you should do to boot: 1. Boot the 4.0 system disk from your 3.5" drive. 2. Launch BASIC.SYSTEM from the system disk. 3. Type "BYE". You should be returned to the desktop and your Sider should appear. 4. Insert System Tools and run the Installe program. 5. Pick "Install System Files" and install them to your Sider. 6. If you have a UniDisk 3.5 (the white 3.5" drive), also use the Installer program to install the UniDisk driver (it's at the very bottom). 7. Reboot the Sider; GS/OS should boot when you pick "Boot into ProDOS". I hope this works for you. If not, you'll have to get help directly from First Class Peripherals. --Matt Subj: Interface Card Compatibility 88-11-30 12:11:11 EST From: AFL Jim Just a reminder... To use GS/OS you *must* have the IIGS ROM update (only needed on older Apple IIGSs). Also, if you have: o Apple's SCSI Interface Card, you *must* have ROM part number 341-0437, Revision A on the card. o Apple's ProFile Interface Card, you *must* have ROM part number 341-0299, Revision B on the card. All three ROM updates are FREE from Apple. Ask your local dealer for details. Subj: clarify: needed ROMs for GS/OS 88-12-01 20:19:25 EST From: Dave Lyons Yes, what Jim said. The 341-0437-A SCSI ROM is also called "Revision C" (or at least the CARD is called a Rev C card when it has that ROM in it...something like that). You can tell that you have the "new" GS ROM when it says "ROM 01" toward the bottom of the screen when you power on (the older rom, ROM 00, says nothing). ROM 00 is also known in some documentation as ROM 1.0, and ROM 01 is known as ROM 2.0. (Brilliant, eh?) Subj: GS/OS Booting on Sider 88-12-09 17:28:29 EST From: AFL Jim The Sider firmware apparantly needs to be initialized before GS/OS will recognize it as an active ProDOS device. Booting with ProDOS 8 and accessing the Sider once will initialize the Sider's firmware. The replacement ROM you mentioned takes care of the initialization problem. Subj: Re: GS/OS Booting on hard drive 88-12-09 23:19:57 EST From: Matt DTS That's pretty much it. A ProDOS device has four low-level commands - STATUS, READ, WRITE and FORMAT. The Sider firmware initializes itself when it gets its first READ call. Until then, it returns "Device Off-Line" error. And, you guessed it, the first thing ProDOS 8 does is READ and the first thing GS/OS does is STATUS, which gets back "Device Off-Line" to which GS/OS says, "Hey, if there's nothing on-line, I can't build a DIB for it." Dropping into ProDOS 8 forces the firmware to initialize itself, so when GS/OS is restarted, everything goes according to The Plan. --Matt Subj: Installing on a CMS HD How? 88-12-15 20:30:12 EST From: GPFlint How do I install GS/OS 4.0 on my CMS hard disk? It seams like I can not get the installer program to recognize the hard disk. When I select the volume to intall the new system on the heading changes to /CMS but the icon in the little window is a 3.5 icon. Implementing the "Install" requests the System Tools disk, then the System disk, then a window appears with a hand, stating "File not found". What file isn't found? Something on the System disk or the whole hard disk? Nuts. Subj: Re: GS/OS Booting on hard drive 88-12-15 21:22:23 EST From: AFA Parik Which card interface are you using? (The Apple SCSI card or the CMS SCSI Card) Are you installing the SYSTEM or are you installing the SCSI driver? The SCSI driver is =ONLY= for the Apple SCSI Card. What you need to do is INSTALL SYSTEM, and if you are using a Apple SCSI card, install APPLE SCSI driver. If you are using the CMS card, just leave it alone and reboot into the drive. It should work perfectly. Subj: Re: GS/OS Booting on hard drive 88-12-17 02:59:52 EST From: Matt DTS Sounds to me like you made a file-by-file copy of the disks rather than a disk image copy. If you use the Finder to make a file-by-file copy, the Finder won't duplicate the file FINDER.DEF from /SYSTEM.DISK, and the Installer script requires it to be present. --Matt Subj: Re: GS/OS Booting on hard drive 88-12-17 07:43:50 EST From: Dave Lyons Mmmm...that's a very interesting tidbit, Matt. Can the installer script be fixed not to require FINDER.DEF? (Or is there a better way around the problem?) GPFlint--what this boils down to is that if you copy System Disk or System Tools using the Finder, you should do it by dragging the Disk icon onto the target disk icon (rather than selecting all the icons inside the disk and dragging _them_ into the target disk window or onto its icon). Subj: 4.0 TO CMS DRIVE 89-01-15 22:48:11 EST From: GPFlint After all the fiddling to install 4.0 on to my CMS HD I discover that TML Pascal v1.00D doesn't like 4.0. I have v1.5 but it doesn't like my programs and I don't plan to go through and find all to changes neccessary. Thanks anyway. Subj: Use TML Pascal 1.50! 89-01-16 21:26:49 EST From: Dave Lyons Ouch! I'd take the trouble to switch over to TML Pascal 1.50 (or 1.50A--only diff is a Seek bug fixed in 1.50A). By sticking with 1.00D because you don't want to change over to the new interface files, you're going to be stuck with that version _forever_! I bet there were a _lot_ more changes in those interface units between 1.00D and 1.50 than there ever will be again--they fixed a lot of problems. I don't have a list of the bugs that were fixed from 1.00D to 1.50, but there were a lot of them. I'd be _really_ scared using an outdated version of TML Pascal. --Dave Lyons Subj: TML1.5 89-01-21 22:51:52 EST From: GPFlint Alright Dave, you convinced me. But the work! UGH! Garth Subj: Re: CMS and GS/OS 89-01-27 01:07:15 EST From: AFL Floyd It sounds like you have the SCSI.DRIVER in the SYSTEM/DRIVERS/ directory of your system disk. If so, remove it. Boot the system disk. Then run the installer. You *should* be able to select the CMS drive to install, at least I was able to. Without the SCSI.DRIVER GS/OS should recognize the CMS drive as just a big ProDOS device. Floyd Subj: Re: GS/OS and CMS 89-01-27 10:45:40 EST From: GPFlint Thanks Everyone! The idiot finally figured it out! I had the 4.0 system in SYSTEM file, in other words - /CMS/SYSTEM/SYSTEM doesn't work to hot. /CMS/SYSTEM works great. Subj: Re: GS/OS Booting on hard drive 89-01-29 23:42:55 EST From: Matt DTS I feel obliged to point out to Floyd that even WITH SCSI.DRIVER installed, GS/OS treats anything attached to a CMS SCSI card like a Big ProDOS Device... --Matt Subj: Re: Beta testing 89-02-03 01:35:11 EST From: AFL Floyd Matt, When I was beta testing GS/OS my CMS hard disk would not boot with the SCSI.DRIVER installed and the CMS controller card. Hence my comment. I never tested it after the final release because I'm using an Apple SCSI card now. ;) floyd Subj: Re: GS/OS Booting on hard drive 89-02-04 17:08:28 EST From: Matt DTS That's strange; that certainly shouldn't be the case for the final product. Not having a CMS drive, though, I don't suppose I'll be finding out myself. --Matt Subj: Wasn't with final version 89-02-10 06:20:12 EST From: AFL Floyd Matt, It was the beta version that did that, not the final version. Floyd Subj: Re: GS/OS Booting on hard drive 89-02-11 02:02:39 EST From: Matt DTS (Whew. You scared me for a minute there.) (To refresh - it was beta and not final versions of GS/OS that caused CMS cards *not* to work if SCSI.DRIVER was installed.) --Matt Subj: Booting GS/OS on a ProApp HD 88-10-24 22:23:12 EST From: Spockk1 Msgs: 6 (88-11-06) Hi all, I have a problem with the GS/OS system. I have a Apple IIgs w/ a 5.25 floppy and a 3.5 floppy and a 20 meg ProApp HD. I have version ROM 01. I have my HD connected to a SCSI w/ version 2.0 ROM. However, when I install the HD driver, my HD is not found by gs/os. If I try to boot from my HD, I get the message...can't load "start.gs.os. ...error $002D or $0002D I can't remember. I have tried different ways to install the SCSI driver onto my system disk...and always geting, once I boot the system disk, a damaged disk box...strange HuH? Can you help me. Looking forward to your reply, Spockk1...out Subj: Re: Booting GS/OS on a ProApp HD 88-10-25 19:04:32 EST From: AFL Jim I think we have this straightened out by EMail, but... Once again, please check your SCSI card ROM - it should be rev C. Jim Subj: Re: Booting GS/OS on a ProApp HD 88-10-26 19:28:04 EST From: DennisDoms Ver. 2.0 may be Rev. C. That's the version number on my ROM (and the serial number ends in "A"; Apple Copyright 1986-1988). Did you set up the disk with Installer? Subj: Re: Booting GS/OS on a ProApp HD 88-10-27 21:03:50 EST From: Dave Lyons Confirmed: the number on the ROM that ends in 0437-A, Ver 2.0 *is* the Rev C ROM. Subj: Re: Booting GS/OS on a ProApp HD 88-11-06 20:09:26 EST From: Spockk1 Spockk1 to all who have acknowledged my dilemma, I finally got my system 4.0 software installed. It took two Saturdays, a lot of trials, but I got it. I daisychained my HD to my 3.5 disk. I then had to wipeout all the files using a file called WIPEOUT.0 from my HD utilities. After that, used the ADVANCED DISK UTILITY to initialize the HD. I then installed all the necessary scripts and system files to the HD. Finally, I reconnected my HD to the SCSI card and rebooted my system. I works perfectly. I appreciate everybody's information. So if you here of anyone having trouble with installing system 4.0 files to a ProApp, please direct them to this note or have them leave a message for me. Spockk1...out Subj: Re: Booting GS/OS on a ProApp HD 88-11-06 23:27:00 EST From: Matt DTS Hmm. Sounds like the "Volume XXX may be damaged..." message was telling you the truth. --Matt Subj: GS/OS Vs. Applelink 88-10-29 15:22:52 EST From: Moustash Msgs: 19 (89-01-02) why is it when i have the applelink disk in a drive while i on the desk top using ver 4 there is an icon labled aplk sys 16 on the desk top sort of just laying around? Subj: Re: GS/OS Vs. Applelink 88-10-29 20:50:45 EST From: Matt DTS M: The icon is on the desktop because that's where the people who created the disk put it. If you don't like it, you can highlight it and pick "Put Back" or "Put Away" (whatever it's called) under the "File" menu and it will go back into the window where it originally came from. (That's the icon you double-click on to launch the IIgs-only version of AppleLink, incidentally.) Harry: It wouldn't surprise me if the AppleLink software required the mouse to be in slot 4 on a IIgs. It might even require the ADB mouse, but it shouldn't if the software uses the 8-bit Mouse Firmware calls. But if it uses the 16-bit mouse firmware calls (from the Misc. Tools), it probably requires the ADB mouse. BillP should have more details. --Matt Subj: Misc Tools calls and Mice 88-10-30 01:17:53 EST From: Dave Lyons Matt, don't the Misc Tools calls search for and use a mouse in any slot, ADB or not Subj: Re: GS/OS Vs. Applelink 88-10-31 21:09:07 EST From: Matt DTS Ya got me. I never tried it. :-) --Matt Subj: Re: GS/OS Vs. Applelink 88-11-01 02:03:08 EST From: G Branche What was that I saw about a GS-only version of the software? The latest that I've seen is 1.0.7 (I think), and it's the 8-bit version. Subj: Re: GS/OS Vs. Applelink 88-11-01 18:32:47 EST From: HErwin The mouse is in slot 4, but it isn't an ADB mouse. Harry Subj: Re: GS/OS Vs. Applelink 88-11-01 21:08:08 EST From: JSchober Omigosh, Greg.... you haven't been on for a while, have you?? ;) Call up Customer Service -- that's 1-800-227-6364 -- and ask them to send you a 3.5" version of AppleLink. It contains both AppleLink GS and AppleLink 1.1.9 (or what we beta testers would call 1.1.9 -- I guess it's labelled as 1.0). Fixes zillions of bugs -- 1.1.9 is perfect, as far as I know. (Bet you still even have Instant Messages, huh?? %) --Joey Subj: Re: GS/OS Vs. Applelink 88-11-07 21:51:29 EST From: PaulM83 Whats this GS only version of Applelink????? Subj: What you get... 88-11-08 12:11:57 EST From: AFL Jim The Apple II AppleLink-PE software package includes 2 disks; a 5.25" disk with the Apple IIe/IIc version of AppleLink software and a 3.5" disk with the Apple IIGS version of AppleLink. The major difference between the two packages is the graphics screens; the IIe/IIc version uses the Hi-Res menu screens while the IIGS version uses Super-Hi-Res menu screens. I personally use the IIe/IIc version - the program files are smaller, so it loads faster. Jim Subj: Re: GS/OS Vs. Applelink 88-11-10 23:13:16 EST From: JimLaz Actualy the 3.5 disk contains the 8-bit version too, for the IIc+. JimLaz Subj: Re: GS/OS Vs. Applelink 88-11-13 23:43:39 EST From: AFL TracyP And the only differences are the Icon Screens and the opening and closing screens. One you get past the icons screens, the GS user and the IIe/IIc user sees the =exact= same thing. Tracy Subj: Re: GS/OS Vs. Applelink 88-11-15 01:09:12 EST From: Matt DTS Don't forget, however, that the GS version makes GS/OS calls (or ProDOS 16 calls), not ProDOS 8 calls. Anyone with GS/OS specific features (like more than two partitions on a hard disk or disks in a file system that's not ProDOS) can take advantage of them only if running the 16-bit version of the software. --Matt Subj: Re: GS/OS Vs. Applelink 88-11-15 23:10:27 EST From: ShrinkIt Yep, *IF* there were another filing system avilable... that we could WRITE to. :) andy Subj: Re: GS/OS Vs. Applelink 88-11-16 22:53:30 EST From: Dave Lyons I haven't tried it, but don't you also get to use (but not set!) all 32 prefixes, and use device names and ":" separators when you use the GS version of ALPE under GS/OS? Subj: Re: GS/OS Vs. Applelink 88-11-17 19:30:16 EST From: AFL Floyd Dave, Yes. With the GS version of ALPE under GS/OS you can use device names and ":" when setting the prefix or typing in pathnames. Floyd Subj: Re: GS/OS Vs. Applelink 88-11-19 13:55:06 EST From: JSchober Yup, you sure can, Dave. In fact, I find it very handy... in my /FX20/ALINK/ folder, I have two more subdirectories: ALINK/TRANSFER/ (files I've just downloaded, files that are ready to be uploaded) and ALINK/SCRIPTS (logs, copies of messages). I set up an ECP16 batch file that sets the prefix to */ALINK, 2/ to */ALINK/TRANSFER, and 3/ to */ALINK/SCRIPTS, then SHELL ALINK.SYS16's the thing. Works great -- no need to type huge pathnames to go from dir to dir; just type a number and the name. :) --Joe Subj: Compact and AppleLink 89-01-02 11:59:18 EST From: AFL Floyd The next version of AppleLink GS is in OMF 2 format and is around 145 blocks (I think). This version fixes the intermitent upload bug also. The ACU.SYS16 file is only 1 block long, it simply quits to LACU16 in the II.FOLDER. I don't think compact will make it smaller. ;) Floyd Subj: CDAs and NDAs crash GS/OS boot 88-11-03 00:24:14 EST From: AFL TracyP Msgs: 9 (89-05-14) Forwarded message from AHW...... Subj: NDA'S & CDA'S CRASH GSOS BOOT 88-11-02 23:37:40 est From: DAGII Msgs: 1 (88-11-02) Help If I put add any more than one CDA or NDA to my GSOS boot disk, the computer hangs on boot. These CDA's and NDA's worked fine in previous versions of prodos 16. The computer hangs just after the desktop is drawn and the empty menu bar is placed at the top of the screen. It stops there. The wristwatch cursor fails to appear, and the menu bar doesn't get filled with the usual items of the GS Finder. I could be wrong, but I don't think the DA's are at fault and I'm loading them into the correct folder on the boot disk. I am using a Woz-signed GS with the ROM 01 upgrade, a GS-RAM card (Applied Engineering) with 1.5 Meg, Grappler+ and ProGrappler cards installed in slots 2 and 1, respectively, and a few other cards. My System disk boots fine before adding these DA's, won't work after I do add them, and again boots fine after I remove them. Anybody got any ideas? DAGII Subj: Problem DAs? 88-11-03 10:17:40 EST From: AFL Floyd It sounds like buggy DAs to me. Why don't you list the names of the DAs in question. That would give us more information to solve your problem. Floyd Subj: Re: CDAs and NDAs crash GS/OS bo 88-11-05 21:47:42 EST From: JimLaz Also, try putting them in one or two at a time. I've had problems with certain NDA's causing problems. Like SYSBEEP not working with Styleware's Alarm Clock. JimLaz Subj: Re: CDAs and NDAs crash GS/OS 88-11-08 21:48:34 EST From: HaleyComet I have found the problem which has been plagueing me for about three weeks (ever since I got GS/OS). Whenever I tried to run Prodos 8 based programs such as Appleworks from the GS/OS finder, it would bomb. Yesterday, I discovered that the problem was with a NDA I like from StyleWare's DESKWORKS -- the Menu Clock. This NDA actually resides in the System.Setup subdirectory. After I removed it. Everything started working great. Now all I have to do is to get StyleWare (alias Claris) to come up with a fix. ;) Subj: Re: CDAs and NDAs crash GS/OS bo 88-11-09 22:43:56 EST From: JSchober You're not alone. The MENU.CLOCK... errr... (it's NOT an NDA, it's an INIT file) is infamous for its tendency to cause problems with nearly every program in existance. In theory, it's great; in practice, it just doesn't work. Sorry, but you'll have to leave that file out....... --Joe Subj: Re: CDAs and NDAs crash GS/OS bo 88-11-10 23:08:20 EST From: JimLaz Yes, Mac people have just as many problems with screwy INIT's DA's and other wierd stuff. keeps my pockets full. JimLaz Subj: Re: CDAs and NDAs crash GS/OS bo 88-11-11 09:04:33 EST From: AFL Floyd Jim Mensch of Apple Computer wrote a Menu Clock INIT that works fine in all the programs that I use that Styleware's Menu Clock caused to crash. Jim L.: Did Jim ever upload that here? Floyd Subj: Re: CDAs and NDAs crash GS/OS bo 88-11-11 23:50:21 EST From: AFL Jim Floyd: Nope, not here. Subj: Re: CDAs and NDAs crash GS/OS bo 89-05-14 12:20:00 EST From: BluCruiser This is a little late, but I have had similar problems. Only my system disk crashed just before going to the finder screen. Hmmmm. Subj: GS/OS, Sider, Prosel, and YUK! 88-11-17 00:55:24 EST From: PaulM83 Msgs: 8 (88-11-24) I have GS/OS installed on my Sider which it recognizes with no trouble. I renamed the start file in the system folder as "finder" and installed Gary Breedons start file so that the system would boot up and go in to Prosel. My daughter likes the desktop because she thinks its "so neat" so I wanted to retain that capability.The problem is that when I select the finder and double click on hard 1 all the icons come up and everyhing works normally BUT when I double click on hard 2 although the desktop comes up it it empty. What in the world am I doing wrong?????????????????? (I even tried installing EVERYTHING on hard 2 and booting into that but the results are exactly the same. HELPPPPPPP! Subj: Re: GS/OS, Sider, Prosel, and YU 88-11-18 01:37:43 EST From: PaulM83 Thats right, Dave, the window opens up with 0 items, blinks a moment later and then instead of listing a number and then the contents, returns to 0 items. Basic System catalogs all items in hard2 normally. Copy II Plus(Prodos Version) catalogs all items in hard2 normally. I can launch all items in hard2 by means of Prosel normally. However when loading system disk 3.1 (Prodos 16) hard 2 shows empty again! I thought the patch to boot into Prosel might be causing the problem, so I backed out the changes listed im my first message but this did not correct the situation. Its important to note that when I originally installed GSOS that everything was all ok. This difficulty apparently arose sometime during the past fow days when I was making changes to hard1 to go directly into Prosel upon boot up. Tonight I went back and reinstalled GSOS onto hard1 in hope that that would correct things, but no dice, I still cannot get the finder to list anything in hard2 even though I know all applications are there and I can run them with Prosel. I'm stumped!!!! Subj: Re: GS/OS, Sider, Prosel, and YU 88-11-18 19:30:32 EST From: Dave Lyons Try running MR.FIXIT on hard2 and see if it finds anything wrong with it. I'm still interesting in knowing whether Standard File dialogs find anything there under GS/OS...I suspect they don't. That would confirm that there's probably something wrong with the directory structure. Hey, here's an idea. E-mail me a copy of /hard2's directory (it'll be a short file, only 4 or 5 blocks). From BASIC.SYSTEM do BLOAD /HARD2,TDIR,A$1000 BSAVE TO.DAVE,A$1000,L$800 and I'll see if anything looks odd. Subj: Re: GS/OS, Sider, Prosel, and YU 88-11-18 22:00:49 EST From: PaulM83 Dave, you are an absolute *!&#*%#@$ JEWELL! Mr.Fixit did not find any bad blocks on Hard1 or Hard2, It found one error on Hard2 and six on Hard1 (boy am I embarassed) in the directory structure. Fixing these though, still did not correct the problem. Running fix on the main directory of each sure did though! Now Hard1 gives me the icons and Hard2 gives me the baby ones with type listings. SURE do appreciate the help! Subj: Mr. Fixit fixed it 88-11-18 23:36:46 EST From: Dave Lyons Hmmm...don't suppose you have a copy of what the directory looked like _before_ you ran Mr. Fixit on it, do you? Just curious about what could be messed up that would cause GS/OS to think there were 0 files when ProDOS 8 could see them fine. Subj: Re: GS/OS, Sider, Prosel, and YU 88-11-19 21:40:53 EST From: PaulM83 Sorry, no I don't. Guess I got the cart before the horse. Subj: Re: Sider modification 88-11-24 05:13:59 EST From: Raj Dood There is a chip available from Advanced Tech Services, PO Box 920413, Norcross, Georgia 30092, (404)441-3322, which allows a Sider to be entirely configured for ProDOS. I always felt there was a lot of wasted space used up for Pascal, DOS 3.3 and C/PM formatting, which I never used. This chip is easily installed on the Host Adapter Card. The price includes the chip, formatting software (though you may use GS software to format the disk), and instructions for installation. You may also use the entire disk as one volume, which I find simplifies operation on my system. The cost is $59.95 plus $2.50 S&H, and an additional $2.50 for COD, which is the fastest way to recieve the kit. I've had mine in for about a month, now, and it works fine and gives me more storage space on the HD. Glen Bredon put me on to this. It's a good modification if you run mostly ProDOS. You can run that other stuff from floppies if you need to. Subj: GS/OS with volumes > 32 mb 88-12-05 20:37:21 EST From: THE GIBBER Msgs: 13 (88-12-12) What are the restrictions on file and volume in GS/OS??? I have been looking over my beta draft (GSOS reference volume 1) and I thought I saw something about all of the restrictions being lifted in GSOS. Something about 2 to the 32 (rather than only 16mb for files and 32mb for volumes). The reason I am asking this I am trying to reformat my 2nd 60 megger and when I go to format I get the message that "Only part of the volume will be recognized". What the heck is this????? Am I missing the boat or what? I know with the ADU, I am allowed to partition my hard drive into several segements. Is this what they call lifting the restrictions???? Any comments would be of some help. John Gibson *****Gibber***** Subj: Re: GS/OS with volumes > 32 mb 88-12-05 23:12:31 EST From: JSchober Right, what Mike said. :) Under >PRODOS< (the PRO.FST Translator), you can only have 32 megs per volume... that's a limit imposed by using unsigned 2-byte integers for block count. On the other hand, when the MAC HFS FST comes out, for example, you'll be able to use... I guess 4 gigs per volume. Of course, using THAT under P8 is a dream... ;) For operation under ProDOS, you're stuck with 32 meg volumes. The ADU will Partition any drive connected to an APPLE (CMS and others won't cut the mustard!) SCSI drive -- in slots 1,2,4,6,7, you can have 2 partitions under P8 (total = 64 megs); in slot 5, you can have up to 4 partitions, or 128 megs. (Actually, the system translates that to S5D1,S5D2,S2D1,S2D2... but so long as you get the space, who cares?! :) --Joe Subj: Re: GS/OS with volumes > 32 mb 88-12-05 23:54:03 EST From: Matt DTS Actually, ADU will partition up to seven partitions, but you'll only see two of them (four if the SCSI card's in slot five) under ProDOS 8. But the GS/OS ProDOS FST can read and write all of them just fine. --Matt Subj: Re: GS/OS with volumes > 32 mb 88-12-06 21:17:05 EST From: DennisDoms The bad news is that the partitioning software eats lots of space; I ended up with 62 meg of my 64 meg drive (2 megs lost to overhead). :( Also, the apocryphal Some Bozo limited the Apple II Partitioning software to 40 megs... Subj: Re: GS/OS with volumes > 32 mb 88-12-06 23:19:48 EST From: THE GIBBER I want it all and I want it now and I want it all in one volume. Thanks for the info; I sort of knew the answer to that one when I started thinking really hard about it! But really folks, I do hope that one of those RESERVED fst is for an apple format system THAT will work with prodos and will allow volumes larger than the prodos 32 meg limit. Hmmmmmm........ Would that be fesible???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????Naw!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks Guys for the help. like I said, after thinking about the set up of GSOS with the FST; I remembered that Prodos Fst was the one doing the formatting :( Oh well, 120 megs and 5 partitions isn't bad. However when I get my 140 on line with this stack, I am going to have to get another SCSI card :) John Gibson aka *****Gibber***** Subj: ProDOS format limited to 32MB 88-12-07 21:44:58 EST From: Dave Lyons John, the ProDOS disk format is permanently limited to 32MB because it uses 2-byte block numbers everywhere. 65536 blocks times 512 bytes per block is 32 megabytes. Subj: Re: GS/OS with volumes > 32 mb 88-12-07 23:44:27 EST From: Matt DTS If you want, the Apple SCSI card will let you have up to seven partitions. At 32MB each, that's 224MB (I believe). Of course, P8 will only see the first two (four if in slot five), but you can use it all under GS/OS. --Matt Subj: Re: GS/OS with volumes > 32 mb 88-12-08 13:06:25 EST From: DougMac There was a comment about CMS drives not being able to partition. It is the CMS scsi card that isn't able to be partitioned, not the drive. The only difference is that the CMS drive and Apple drive, is that CMS has the terminators on the inside, and Apple's on the outside. You can remove the terminators, and be just like an Apple drive.. Or if you only have one drive, just leave them in.. Doesn't matter.. Also I posted over usetnet feed comp.sys.apple, and idea for Apple to make a big_prodos fst.. The appeal to this is that, they already have 90% of the prodos fst that they can use. And the big_prodos fst would use Gs/os limits on drive space, and charater names etc.. Of course this is totally incompatible with prodos 8, but then again any* other foreign fst is going to be incompatible with prodos 8 now isn't it.. This would have limits such as 4GB limit on drive size, and more robust character names (the whole ascii set cept NUL of course), and stuff like that. Force applications to become gs/os aware, and this would make them to be foreign fst aware also.. Subj: Re: GS/OS with volumes > 32 mb 88-12-09 10:22:40 EST From: MikeW50 I would expect Apple to use the Mac HFS format for an FST that can access more than 32M. That wouldn't have any more compatibility problems than the last two solutions, but would have the distinct advantage that the GS could read and write disks that could then be popped into a Macintosh. Mike Westerfield Subj: Re: GS/OS with volumes > 32 mb 88-12-12 19:15:43 EST From: AFL Floyd I'm with Mike. I would *much* rather see a HFS FST than a super duper ProDOS FST. Subj: Re: GS/OS with volumes > 32 mb 88-12-12 20:32:37 EST From: ShrinkIt Amen, and it can't get here soon enough... :-) andy Subj: GSOS problems with old programs 88-12-10 21:41:43 EST From: THE GIBBER Msgs: 7 (88-12-23) I work at an apple dealership and I have had several complaints with older programs not accepting disks that are formated with GSOS Prodos FST as being "real problems" During this time of the year I don't have time to sit down and work this one out :) However the situation is this. Bards Tale II //gs will accept disks formated with system 3.1 and 3.2, however when I use GSOS I find that the program doesn't accept these disks as prodos. I have used both interweaving systems and still I haven't gotten a correct disk. Maybe when christmas is over I will have time to figure this one out, but maybe You guys will have some answers for me. I think I need to call EA (eletronic Arts) and tell them this one. Thanks Alot John Gibson Subj: Re: GSOS problems with old progr 88-12-10 23:15:40 EST From: Matt DTS There's a byte (byte $20 or $21, cause I can't remember if it's VERSION or MINVERSION we're talking about here) that tells ProDOS what the minimum version of ProDOS is necessary to read this disk. This was done so that if the directory structure ever changed, the old ProDOS wouldn't try to read the disk. Some programs (I believe an old version of ECP did this) accidentally put a value other than zero in this field, and the ProDOS FST (which checks more than ProDOS 8 does) summarily refuses to read the disk, thinking that it can't. If you have a disk that can't be read, make sure both bytes $20 and $21 of block 2 are zero and try again. --Matt Subj: Re: GSOS problems with old progr 88-12-11 10:14:27 EST From: THE GIBBER Thanks Matt, But this is going from GSOS to a P-8 disk. The P-8 disk is refusing to read the GSOS formated disk. I have several customers that are highly angry at this. These people don't understand that when a new operating system comes on line there are going to be some problems :) They want everything to work RIGHT NOW AND WORK RIGHT; however they don't want to have to think about it. thanks for the info. I will look into it and see if that maybe the problem. *****Gibber****** aka John K. Gibson Subj: Re: GSOS problems with old progr 88-12-11 11:03:15 EST From: AFA Parik John, maybe some of these programs ARE looking for the version number. GS/OS uses P8 v1.7, BT II GS may just search the version number (its available in the $BF00 page) and if it doesn't matchup, no go. Try putting a copy of the older ProDOS 8 on another disk (ram disk, etc), name it anything you wish. Then launch this from the system disk. It'll be a little weird since you'll have Prodos screens loaded twice (first to Load the 2nd proDOS 8, and then once again the 2nd ProDOS 8 being loaded), however, the second prodos 8 should take the priority. Now go into any utility from basic.system (oh yeah, put BASIC.SYSTEM on the same disk :) such as Copy II+, Hyperformat, etc, anything that formats a ProDOS disk, and format the 3.5. Are you JUST using the Disk Utilities? Have you tried launching other formatting programs? Subj: Re: GSOS problems with old progr 88-12-11 21:57:23 EST From: Dave Lyons On GS/OS (ProDOS FST) not recognizing old P8 disks: What Matt said, only it was TIC 2.03 and earlier rather than ECP that was the problem. If you'd used TIC and then formatted a disk without rebooting ProDOS 8, there'd accidentally be a $01 at $BFFE, which would get written to, I think, byte $21 of block 2 of your disk; the ProDOS FST doesn't appreciate that. Now, Gibber, what exactly is happening? You say that P8 doesn't like certain disks? What does it do? Does the volume show up in an Online display? Is it having any trouble reading blocks from the disk (does it take abnormally long to read?)? Do you get any error messages Subj: Re: GSOS problems with old progr 88-12-23 23:13:43 EST From: Dave Lyons That's odd...I don't know why a ProDOS volume formatted under GS/OS would be distinguishable from any other ProDOS volume. Are there differences in block 2? The interleave (2:1 or 4:1) affects only order of blocks within a track & therefore the amount of time it takes to read from the disk. Subj: Finding drives 88-12-21 20:44:53 EST From: Clayburn Msgs: 6 (89-01-02) Does anyone know how GS/OS recognizes the different types of drives. Clay Subj: Disappearing Disk Cache in GSOS 89-01-06 22:41:55 EST From: RickAllan Msgs: 2 (89-01-06) I loaded a bunch (6) NDAs onto my GS/OS System Disk, and now the Disk Cache Menu Item on the Apple Menu has disappeared! Has anyone else experienced this? How can I keep both? Subj: Re: Disappearing Disk Cache NDA 89-01-06 22:51:23 EST From: AFL Jim Rick, how many NDAs do you have in your DESK.ACCS directory? Is the cache NDA files still in the DESK.ACCS directory? Subj: GS/OS error messages 89-01-07 06:46:50 EST From: AFL Oli Msgs: 15 (89-02-07) Jim, any idea what "GS/OS Error $0043" is? We have someone running AppleWorks GS over in the AppleWorks Forum who is getting this error message? Is there a generally published list of GS/OS error messages that could be posted here? Thanks! Oli Subj: Re: $0043 According To GSOS.H 89-01-07 16:38:24 EST From: Coach101 is invalid reference number. Subj: Re: GS/OS error messages 89-01-07 21:42:15 EST From: AFL Jim Oli, As mentioned above, GS/OS error $43 is an invalid reference number. Each open file is assigned a reference number by GS/OS. This reference number is used instead of the pathname for the Close, Flush, GetEOF, GetMark, NewLine, Read, SetEOF, SetMark and Write GS/OS calls. If an unassigned reference number is passed to any of those calls, GS/OS will return an invalid reference number error. It sounds like a reference number is getting changed in memory. I'll try to type in the list of possible GS/OS error numbers and what they mean. But, without knowing what calls can return a specific error and why they return it, the error messages may be meaningless for you. Jim Subj: Re: GS/OS error messages 89-01-08 09:46:28 EST From: AFL Oli Thanks for the info.. Perhaps when we pass this along to Claris, they will know what to do with it... :) Subj: GS/OS Error Code Chart 89-01-08 17:25:11 EST From: AFL Jim I've uploaded a chart that shows GS/OS error codes and which GS/OS calls can return them to the Articles & Transcripts library. It's formatted and ready to print (7 pages - set your printer to 17 cpi). Subj: Re: GS/OS error messages 89-01-12 02:38:26 EST From: Guy Rice Maybe the error should be passed on to Apple, not to Claris. I've gotten several GS/OS $43 errors lately, and not while running any specific programs! I've gotten $43 when launching programs before, but it was never anything I could duplicate... at any rate, I make a Quit call, and GS/OS comes up with a "Error $43" and reboots when you hit return. Usually happens only after I've been launching and quitting from several different programs... GTR Subj: error $43 89-01-12 20:44:24 EST From: Dave Lyons Guy, do you remember whether the error $43s you were getting happened when quitting to a launching application, or launching a new application? And was the next application in an online volume? Just trying to narrow this down a bit. Subj: Re: GS/OS error messages 89-01-17 03:59:54 EST From: Guy Rice It's always when launching a new application, and it's the application is always on an online volume (namely my hard drive). The error also gives an address, and although I've never written it down, I'd be willing to bet it's always the same address - seems to be it's at $Dxxx in Bank 0 - aka the language card... Next time it happens I'd get the exact address... GTR Subj: Re: GS/OS error messages 89-01-19 00:05:38 EST From: Guy Rice Got it! - It's happened twice since I posted that - same address both times - I get this little box that looks something like this: ________________________________________ | | | GS/OS System Error | | | | Address = $00D9FA LC bank = $0 | | | | Error code = $0043 | | | | Restart | |________________________________________| Of course, in the real box, it uses mousetext and "Restart" is highlighted. You press return and reboot. $00/D9FA is in the GS/OS reserved memory - which leads me to believe the error is due to a bug in that code - in GS/OS itself, and not in any of the applications I'm running. After all, this is an error that comes up when making a GS/OS Quit call! How can you have an error $43 on a Quit call? The exact same quit call gives no error if you reboot and start from scratch, though. This only happens after launching and quitting from several applications... GTR Subj: GS/OS error during a QUIT 89-01-19 03:50:01 EST From: Dave Lyons Guy, I'll see what I can figure out from that. What were you Quitting to at the time? Subj: Re: GS/OS error messages 89-01-22 01:14:46 EST From: Guy Rice It seems to be random... I've had it give me that message when quitting to lots of different places... seems to me it's always an S16 program, though... maybe not though... I really haven't noticed any pattern other than it's after I've been running for a while going thru many different programs... GTR Subj: Re: GS/OS error messages 89-01-29 23:15:06 EST From: Matt DTS You know what it sounds like to me? Sounds like someone is CLOSEing a file that doesn't belong to them. Maybe a DA or someone hanging around memory is doing a CLOSE with refNum zero, when they shouldn't be. Do any of you know if you have the same DAs lying around? The fatal error could be occuring when this thing closes a file that GS/OS has opened for internal use, such as */SYSTEM/P8 when switching the OS, for example. Any more details are of course, appreciated. --Matt Subj: NDAs closing system's files 89-01-30 22:29:14 EST From: Dave Lyons Hey! I hadn't thought of that, Matt, but that sounds like a very reasonable explanation. Assuming that the system opens some file and _then_ calls DeskShutdown before the OS switch, any CDA or NDA doing a CLOSE(0) during its Shutdown routine would explain it. Subj: Re: GS/OS error messages 89-02-07 01:02:53 EST From: Guy Rice Hmmm... interesting... I'll have to try removing some NDAs and CDAs and see what happens... and keep an eye on what DA's I've been using before this occurs... GTR Subj: SubjLns, start.gs.os, vol damage 89-01-14 03:51:23 EST From: Dave Lyons >First a gripe. Would people from now, not keep on reusing the >RE: line, I scan through messages, and see a thousand Re: lines, >and no new description lines.. Maybe a change in software? Some people will and some won't. :) I wouldn't mind seeing the software changed to start with the subject field blank and require it to be nonblank, but I bet we'd start seeing lots of subjects like "x" and "stuff" and "misc".... >Anyway why does GS/OS not like the filename of 'start.gs.os' >very much at all. It seems to like it just fine to me...I'd be _extremely_ surprised to find any _special_ handling of a particular filename outside the boot process. >In installing gsos long time ago, I had problems, and now I am >having problems with it again. Using a generic copy program, >copying it from the system disk. (ie copy > /system.disk/system/start.gs.os /hard1/system/start.gs.os) >sometimes (actually quite a bit) it will lose it. Ie. It says >copy is ok, then I go and catalog, and presto it isn't there... Interesting. What "generic copy program" were you using? Have you run Mr.Fixit on /hard1? There are conditions a directory can get into where stuff like that might happen...a bad EOF on the dir, maybe? >Also now I have 'start.gs.os' in my system directory, and now >'prodos' boot strap loader says it can't load it (due to file >not found error). Does gs/os look for this, when you are opening >a file?? START.GS.OS is used during boot. You can't execute the PRODOS file directly (it isn't guaranteed to work and usually doesn't). That might explain your problem, since you didn't say whether you were booting or what. >Also I found some glitches in block 1, and was wondering if any >legit. software would leave anything there. Otherwise the >directory entries look perfect... What are "glitches" in block 1? The block 1 on a GS/OS-formatted ProDOS volume is full of zeroes, I think (it isn't used), and previously block 1 had "SOS" boot code (for the Apple ///). >Also I am getting sick of gs/os watch dogging over me, [...] >saying that my disk directory structure is damaged. I'd pay attention to those warnings and run Mr.Fixit or something. Whenever I get one of those messages, something really _is_ wrong. If you go delete the files and that gets rid of the messages, that doesn't guarantee everything is peachy...I'd feel a lot safer running a volume-check utility. --Dave Lyon Subj: Re: Start.gs.os 89-01-14 15:47:02 EST From: Scott113 I've got a Unidisk 3.5 with my Gs. It does not disk cache on most programs. I was wondering if GS/OS would have problems running under my present system. Does anyone know? Subj: Start.gs.os.stuff 89-01-14 17:47:35 EST From: DougMac heh. couldn't resist. Anyway yes I am booting. So the boot procedure would be execute block0 -> prodos -> whatever prodos loads like start.gs.os. But I have run mr. fixit on the whole hard drive, and nothing but those little lost files turn up errors. Like I said, I looked at the dir structure with a block editor, and it looked fine to me. I can't imagine why gsos doesn't like that file, otherthan this happened to me on Friday the 13th.. Now I'm going to have to back up the hard drive yet again, and do a soft-format on it, see if that helps. Otherwise I might actually have to do a hard format. Yuck...40M of file copying to get defragmentation is not* my idea of fun.. The little lost files, have nothing wrong with them, but having the EOF past the physical end of the file. looking through a block editor program, the block counts are fine, but EOFs are bad. So if I could delete them, they would be fine. The directory structure isn't as damaged as gsos thinks it is... Subj: UniDisk 3.5 and GS/OS 89-01-15 01:12:47 EST From: Dave Lyons Scott, if you have installed the UNIDISK3.5 driver, I think you will have exactly the same amount of caching as someone with an Apple 3.5. There shouldn't be a problem. Typically _directories_ will be cached but not much else these days, until GS/OS-specific programs get written that are smart enough to ask for _important_ parts of important files to be cached as they are read or written. Subj: Re: Start.gs.os 89-01-19 03:12:35 EST From: Mark TMM Dave in effect executing the PRODOS program shoudl bott GS/OS (I have actually posted this message before in a different forum but its been pushed down two continues so I doubt anyone has seen it.) Not to be picky with Apple (since they can change their code), but it seems to me that starting GS/OS from ProDOS8 is perfectly legal.(And therfore should be supported) The following references are to the GS/OS Apda Beta manual Appendix D. brackets are mine i.e. {} p. 307. "boot codes searches disk... PRODOS... loaded and executed" {at $2000} {in my case boots my ProDOS 8, then when wanted I can -BOOT.GSOS which in effect executes it at $2000} PRODOS {BOOT.GSOS} "loads the file */SYSTEM/START.GS.OS" "START.GS.OS relocates part of */PRODOS" {*/BOOT.GSOS is at the same location} so as far as START.GS.OS is concerened IT IS relocating part of PRODOS} START.GS.OS then goes ahead and finishes the boot process. p. 308 SYSTEM startup from non-ProDOS volumes {in my case ProDOS8} "...a boot file containing the startup routine and file-system specific routines required by GLoader and GQuit. The boot file is a replacement for the file PRODOS" {well what I have done is make BOOT.GSOS MY replacement file for PRODOS and since it is a legal SYS file it should operate from ProDOS8} Therefore in the GS/OS manual it seems that as long as the machine has been set up properly before executing START.GS.OS the boot process of GS/OS should behave "normally" :) I boot into ProDOS 8 everyday before going (by choice) to GS/OS Mark (The Modifier) Subj: -PRODOS supported? 89-01-19 03:45:58 EST From: Dave Lyons Mark, Apple's official position is that executing the PRODOS file outside the boot process is not supported. The description of the boot process isn't very detailed--it doesn't describe all the various conditions that are normally set up during a boot. In practice, I think running the PRODOS file (or your renamed copy of it) will _work_ (although it will still not be _guaranteed_ to work in the future) _if_ you put $Cn at $07F8, where n is the slot you're trying to boot from. You may need to turn off the 80-column firmware for this to work--not sure. --Dave Lyons Subj: Re: Start.gs.os 89-01-21 02:46:01 EST From: TinderFoot It seems detailed enough for me as I listed. I've sent the message to AII DTS for his opinion. Mark TMM (In disguise) Subj: Re: Start.gs.os 89-01-25 14:08:58 EST From: AFL Floyd Mark, If your method works that's great. All Apple is saying is they don't support it and it could change in the future. "-PRODOS" alone is definitely not supported and never has been. It just so happens that in the past it worked fine. But you'll find that out when AIIDTS gets back to you. :) I hope you sent your message by the other AppleLink and not here because AIIDTS does not officially answer technical questions here. Floyd Subj: Re: Start.gs.os 89-02-05 18:06:31 EST From: Rob Turner Doug, The ProDOS FST never checks the EOF of a file to see if the directory is damaged. The EOF of a file can be in the range 0 to 16meg-1. This is one case of a sparse file. The ProDOS FST does check things in the directory that ProDOS8/16 did not. So if ProDOS8/16 is happy that does NOT mean your disk is ok. I hope this helps. Take Care... Rob Turner (GS/OS team (ProDOS FST etc.)) Subj: GS/OS AND SHRCONVERT 89-01-14 19:24:51 EST From: Ralfy Msgs: 17 (89-01-29) I am unable to use Shrconvert under GS/OS. It boots correctly(?), but when I attempt to load a file, it presents a disk menu which is only partually filled in. No disk or file names. After that, it sometimes locks up the system and I have to re-boot. Note: I can only re-boot by turning off the computer. Any attempt to re-boot with '3 fingers' or reset results in 'Fatal Error 681.' What am I doing wrong? I copyed GS/OS to my hard disk by copying the entire contents of the 3.5 system disk using Prosel. Should I re-do it with the Installer program? Why?? I saw a comment on GEnie that Shrconvert worked better under GS/OS than under version 3.2. Subj: Re: GS/OS AND SHRCONVERT 89-01-15 01:06:39 EST From: Dave Lyons Are you using SHRConvert 2.1? Works great for me under GS/OS. How much memory do you have in your system, and how much is taken up by DAs? Subj: Re: GS/OS AND SHRCONVERT 89-01-15 10:57:23 EST From: Ralfy I have 1.25 meg, and the RAM disk display in the Control Panel (when viewed from the Desktop) shows close to 600k unused. There is a 128k RAM disk defined. I am using Shrconvert version 2.1. Subj: Re: GS/OS AND SHRCONVERT 89-01-15 22:57:23 EST From: ScottG25 Do you get the "Purge-O-Matic is running...Please wait" message when you execute SHRConvrt.FINDER? Also, you might try it without a Ramdisk, and with the CACHE size set to zero... If all else fails, you might have to re-down load the program :( SG Subj: Re: GS/OS AND SHRCONVERT 89-01-15 22:57:38 EST From: AFA Gary J I don't think lack of memory is the problem, although I'm not exactly sure WHAT the problem is. I had the same thing happen to me the first time I ran SHR Convert under GS/OS. But ALMOST every time since then, it has worked beautifully. The only thing I can figure is that it had something to do with whatever program I had run before, and whatever garbage in memory it left behind. Gary Subj: Re: GS/OS AND SHRCONVERT 89-01-16 18:06:25 EST From: Ralfy The first time I ran Shrconvert there was a message 'Auto Scratch Running.' Since then, I think I've seen something flash by (too fast to read) occasionally. I've tried booting from the official disk that came in the Apple box, and have re-downloaded Shrcomvert. No luck. A friend of mine down-loaded every GS/OS message from GEnie and printed them. (He is planning to get a GS.) I've read thru the 1st 1/2 inch and saw one message from some-one having the same problem. It seems like GS/OS behaves differently for different people. Some people report no problems. Others have all sorts of odd results. I am beginning to suspect some subtle bug(s) which are dependent on memory size, devices attached, etc.etc. I'll set the cashe to 0 and the ram disk to 0 and try a conpletely cold boot. (I've tried a cold boot already.) See next message....... Subj: Re: GS/OS AND SHRCONVERT 89-01-16 18:36:03 EST From: Ralfy Back again.... Nothing worked. Set cashe and Ram disk to zero, turned off the computer and let it rest for about a minute, and re-booted. I've been booting into Prosel from slot 5, then running a Basic program which does a 'PR#7'. I just set the boot slot to 7 and re-booted after using Shutdown. That didn't do it either. It begins to look (unless someone gets a brilliant idea) like I'll have to run Shrconvert from 3.2. Subj: Re: GS/OS AND SHRCONVERT 89-01-16 20:29:16 EST From: ScottG25 Brilliant idea...;) Try booting straight into the finder, then running SHRConvert.Finder.... BI, 2..... Did you perhaps execute "install everything" when you installed GS/OS? If so, try deleting the drivers you don't need... Then rebooting straight into the finder... BI, 3..... Are you sure the RAM on your memory card is CAS before RAS? I have a list of chip types that are if you need it... I left it at work today :( Scott Subj: Re: GS/OS AND SHRCONVERT 89-01-16 21:51:11 EST From: AFA Gary J Yes, I would suggest trying to launch SHR Convert in different methods. I also agree with Scott's other suggestions. Like I said in a previous post, mine did the exact same thing as you are describing at one time, but it DOES work now. I also did some swapping of my RAM chips somewhere in between the time when it didn't work, and then when it did, so I'm not totally sure what finally did the trick. Gary Subj: Re: GS/OS AND SHRCONVERT 89-01-17 18:01:27 EST From: Ralfy Scott - B I #1 worked (about 95%). When booting from the SHR Convert Finder, the info in the disk menu (and in Help) is all filled in. However, when I switch disks, the 'open' button on my other hard disk is dimmed. Hmmm. I'll poke around and see if I can figure out why. Thanks for the help. (Both of you.) Subj: Re: GS/OS AND SHRCONVERT 89-01-17 19:28:10 EST From: ScottG25 Hey, that's great!!!:) I'm at a loss about the dimmed open button.... unless the disk isn't in prodos format... A while back, there was a problem with the SFGetFile dialog that would do very strange things if it couldn't read files from the disk, it should be fixed by now, tho... Anyrate, try that same disk that wouldn't open in SHRConvert under the finder. See if it will open there.. If there is anything else we can do for you, let us know! Scott Subj: Re: GS/OS AND SHRCONVERT 89-01-18 21:57:36 EST From: DennisDoms There may be something about the boot block or volume directory on the "dimmed disk" that GS/OS doesn't like (anyone else have any specifics on this?)... Subj: Re: GS/OS AND SHRCONVERT 89-01-19 07:31:34 EST From: AFL Scott Dave, A while back, I had discovered a bug in _SFGetFile that if a volume was corrupt in a strange way (volume name was readable, but the contents of the volume were not) the thing would hang right there... somewhere in this forum is a more accurate description... RE: Open.. You're right. Scott Subj: Re: GS/OS AND SHRCONVERT 89-01-19 23:16:39 EST From: AFL Floyd Jason Harper, the author of SHR Convert, has mentioned that there is a bug in v2.1 that *sometimes* causes problems and he suggests using the SHR Convert Finder program to startup SHR Convert. This usually fixes the problem for those having one. It works fine without running the purge program first for me though. The bug only surfaces during certain memory configurations. The next version of SHR Convert is supposed to have this fixed. Floyd Subj: Re: GS/OS AND SHRCONVERT 89-01-29 23:26:32 EST From: Matt DTS I should add, since it was asked: It's always better to run the Installer, because there might be new things on the OTHER disk (/SYSTEM.TOOLS) that you need. For example, if you have UniDisk 3.5 drives on your IIgs, as I do, you MUST install the UniDisk 3.5 driver or eventually you will trash disks due to caching. If you just copied /SYSTEM.TOOLS to your hard drive, you don't have that driver installed. --Matt Subj: hard.disk ignored 89-02-06 21:23:34 EST From: DwightW1 Msgs: 7 (89-02-19) i have, connected to my IIgs the following peripherals: a 40sc hard disk drive, a 60 plus rodime hard disk, two 3.5 floppy disk drives, and two 5.25 floppy disk drives. there is also an apple LQ printer. believe me i need all of this in my programming. the gs/os operating system doesn't like my arrangement very much apparently. i would like to see ALL these peripherals on my desktop, booting from the 40sc hard drive (scsi card, slot #7). would some one kindly, step by step outline what i should do to accomplish this. incidently, currently to get into the gs/os operating system, i have to boot the computer from the 3.5 disk drive, slot 5/drive 1. the desktop shows online: 'ram5', the two 5.25 floppy disk drives, and the two 3.5 drives. the hard disk drives are completely ignored even though the installer program was utilized to install the hard disk drives onto the backup gs/os boot disk. thank you to any one who can help. dwight Subj: SCSI ROM Revision C 89-02-06 23:35:03 EST From: Dave Lyons Dwight, it sounds like you have already installed the SCSI.DRIVER on your boot disk (the 3.5 now), so my best guess is that the ROM on your Apple SCSI card is not Revision C. The ROM is at the top center of the card, and the part number you need for Rev C is 341-0437-A. (Yes, the part number has no C in it, confusingly enough. No doubt this was handled by the same person who decided that ROM 01 is called ROM 2.0. :-) Subj: Re: Hard Disk Ignored 89-02-06 23:36:39 EST From: AFA Gary J Dwight, I'd like to have a few things clarified here.... How is your Rodime drive connected? (Daisy chained to the SC40 drive on the SCSI card in slot 7?) Can either of your hard drives be accessed from ProDOS 8 or previous versions of ProDOS 16? Is your SCSI card the Apple brand? If so, do you have the Revision "C" upgrade on your Apple SCSI card? Gary Subj: Re: hard.disk ignored 89-02-08 22:50:38 EST From: DwightW1 Gary: you and dave hit my problem right on the noise: my scsi card, no doubt, needs updating! i never thought about that as a possibility! to answer your question specifically: my rodime hard disk is used as a backup for the apple 40sc hard disk drive, therefore it has second priority behind the apple drive, both on the same scsi card in slot #7. the rodine drive's cable is piggy-backed to the apple hard disk drive. i will plan to go out right away and update the scsi card. will tell both of you what happens. again thanks to both of you. dwight Subj: Re: hard.disk ignored 89-02-17 02:38:29 EST From: Matt DTS Dennis, I would be interested to know if the card has a SmartPort interface, and if it does, what the type and subtype bytes it returns are. --Matt Subj: Re: hard.disk ignored HUH? 89-02-19 16:49:00 EST From: Pogo5 DWight what do you mean it displays a 3.5 drive? Gs/Os (at least for me) HAS NO 3.5 DRIVE ICON! it does have an icon for 3.5 disks though! Subj: GSOS and Wild Goose Chases 89-02-19 19:21:11 EST From: SamT2 Msgs: 7 (89-04-15) I seem to have problems with GSOS loosing itself when I specify a volume prefix that isn't online at the moment. This happens when I specify a disk that isn't in a drive or when I accidently specify a bad volume name. When I specify a disk that just ins't in a drive and can get it in before GSOS has made its rounds too many times, it seems to recover. But if it makes a couple of rounds or if I accidently give a bogus disk name, then GSOS gets into a volume scan loop and doesn't ever seem to tire of running in circles. RESET seems to be the only way out. Has anyone else seen this? Is there a solution? (besides being a lot more careful) Sam Subj: prefixing to offline volumes 89-02-19 19:41:10 EST From: Dave Lyons Sam, as far as I know GS/OS doesn't care whether your prefixes point to online volumes or not, and it doesn't poll the drives when the prefix is set. Also, I've never seen a single GS/OS call poll the drives more than once. The _real_ question here is what APPLICATION you are using. I bet the application is confused, not GS/OS. Subj: Re: GSOS and Wild Goose Chases 89-02-21 22:03:07 EST From: Matt DTS Dave is right. GS/OS will happily accept ":I love my sister's pet python" as a prefix. It's when you try to use it that you'll get syntax errors, or volume not found errors, or something. Sounds to me like the program you're using looks for the disk in the prefix (maybe to do a GetDirEntry or Open on it) and if it gets Volume Not Found, just keeps looking until it does. --Matt Subj: Re: GSOS and Wild Goose Chases 89-02-25 11:06:28 EST From: SamT2 Could be a poorly written application. One of the ones that I have had problems with is AppleLink PE. I think that I have had problems with others. Subj: excess drive polling 89-02-25 13:47:00 EST From: Dave Lyons Actually, it sounds like the thing needs a whole bunch of different files, and for each one it's looking for a particular volume (that doesn't happen to be online), and _then_ it's looking in a second location and finding the files. (It ought to just look for the volume once, and then look for all the files in the second location if it doesn't find the volume.) Gee, are there any file systems where ":I love my sister's pet python:" is a valid volume name? If we had an HFS FST, would that be valid (29 characters)? What's the longest High Sierra vol name? Subj: File system conventions 89-02-26 16:07:03 EST From: Matt DTS Actually, off the top of my head, I don't know of any file systems where ":I love my sister's pet python" would be a valid volume name. I believe that HFS allows 31 characters for file names but only 28 for disk names. --Matt Subj: Re: GSOS and Wild Goose Chases 89-04-15 20:25:30 EST From: BurgerBill So when are we going to have an FST that can support "I love my sister's pet python"? Subj: Mr. Fixit 89-02-20 20:18:19 EST From: MikeW50 I have seen GS/OS complain about disks when Mr. Fixit dod not see anything wrong that looked significant, but when I asked it to fix the insignificant stuff, GS/OS was happy. You might try that. In general, though, if you reformat the disk and recopy your files, GS/OS will probably be happy. Mike Westerfield Subj: Re: GS/OS = Errors; P8 = No Err 89-02-20 20:43:05 EST From: AFA Gary J Well, the other problem I have with two of the files on my disk is a bad block error. This can't be fixed with the fixer program, as I have tried. I would suspect those two files as being the culprits, but those same files had that problem BEFORE I started getting these GS/OS errors. The problem with GS/OS cropped up AFTER I tried to delete one of the two files with the bad blocks. I was using ACU at the time, and while it was trying to delete the file it went into an endless loop. I had to press CTRL-reset to abort the situation. For some reason this left a bunch of other files on the disk with freed blocks. The fixer program fixed those files, but not the GS/OS problem. I suspect that the root directory was damaged in some way, but I am not sure. Besides, that really doesn't have anything to do with my question. I REALLY want to find out what GS/OS is looking for in this situation that previous versions of ProDOS doesn't. I know how to solve my problem (re-initialize), but that won't cure my curiosity. :) Gary Subj: Re: A Wild Guess..... 89-02-20 22:10:08 EST From: Coach101 I had a similar problem (though I got into it via a real dumb mistake on my part). I think what has happened is that the directory (or sub-directory) that contains the file with the bad blocks is now (from the ProDos FST's point of view) no longer self consistent. I believe that when you started the delete operation some sort of change was made (started) to the directory structure that was not completed when you ran into the bad block. I never took the time to fully pursue my problem but I recall a discussion someplace about the ProDos FST being picky about finding the correct number of "live" entries in directory structure. My guess is that the directory indicates that it has either one more (or, possibly more probably, one less) entry than the FST is finding when it traverses the directory structure. I got rid of my problem by deleting the sub-directory (left some un-retrievable used blocks on the disk, but no big deal). By the way, is the "MrFixit" utility I read about from time to time available someplace here on ALPE? Subj: Good Guess...But No Cigar. 89-02-21 00:08:38 EST From: AFA Gary J Coach, That sounds good, but the file I was trying to delete was not in the main directory. However, the total blocks USED bytes are in the volume header, and that could possibly be my problem. I have been poking around with the GS/OS System Call Exerciser and have discovered that my problem pops up when I try to do a GetFileInfo call on my damaged volume. It gives me the same error message I mentioned in my first post (with the 40 -column text screen..) and then pops back into the Exerciser call window with a "Error $005A: block no. out of range" Error. I'm going to take a long hard look at the volume header info and see if I can find a problem there. Gary Subj: Re: GS/OS = Errors; P8 = No Err 89-02-21 01:27:56 EST From: Rob Turner The problem might be a damaged bitmap or the ProDOS fst is trying to read a block that is greater then the size of the volume. My guess is that the bitmap is not correct. Good Luck... Rob Turner. Subj: Re: GS/OS = Errors; P8 = No Err 89-02-21 19:46:38 EST From: Dave Lyons Rob, if there was a 1 in the bitmap past the highest block existing on the volume, would that cause error $5A? (I suppose I could try it.) It would make sense: GET_FILE_INFO on the volume needs to read the bitmap and compute the number of used blocks, right? Coach, Mr.Fixit is part of Glen Bredon's ProSel package. ProSel owners can download _encrypted_ updates to the various ProSel utilities from the AUT forum, but the package itself is commercial. $40 from Glen Bredon, 521 State Road, Princeton NJ 08540. (I've almost got that memorized well enough that I don't need to check it.) The $40 is for ProSel 8. ProSel 16, which includes ProSel 8, is $60, or $20 if you already own ProSel 8. Subj: Re: GS/OS = Errors; P8 = No Err 89-02-21 22:00:03 EST From: Matt DTS The Initialize/Eject dialog is created by the Finder. The dialog after you click "Initialize" that asks you for File System and Interleave is created by GS/OS. --Matt Subj: Re: GS/OS = Errors; P8 = No Err 89-02-22 00:13:14 EST From: Rob Turner Dave, You guessed it. The ProDOS FST checks to make sure that ALL bytes that are suppose to be zero are in fact zero. It there are bytes past the last valid byte that are not zero the ProDOS FST will tell you that your disk may be damaged. Of course we all know that IS damaged otherwise the bytes would be zero. ProDOS8/16 did not check the trailing zeros. I added it for extra security. Once the message appears the ProDOS FST software write protects the disk so the user cannot damage the disk futher. Good job... Rob Turner (GS/OS) Subj: Re: GS/OS = Errors; P8 = No Err 89-02-22 01:25:44 EST From: AFA Parik I don't know if its related, but I've had error #$5A appear before (Under P8 also!) and the files were really screwed up...couldn't delete them, touch them, etc. Thats what happens when you have two computers hooked up to one hard drive and you write at the same time. :( [guess who keeps a daily backup? LOL] Subj: Error $5a under P8 89-02-22 01:38:44 EST From: Dave Lyons I think you get error $5A under ProDOS 8 if you try to DESTROY a file that has a fried index block. In other words, when P8 has to mark a block "free" in the bitmap and notices that the block number is too big. If you just read/write files with trashed index blocks, I think you just get I/O errors (it doesn't try to find the block in the bitmap, and the I/O error from the block-level driver gets passed back up). Subj: Re: GS/OS = Errors; P8 = No Err 89-02-22 01:52:13 EST From: AFA Gary J Bingo! That did the trick. I have a 62 meg hard drive with two 31 meg volumes, so I calculated how many blocks it would take to make up the bit map, and it just happens to leave one half block unused at the end of the bit map. At least it was SUPPOSED to be unused. The culprit, in this case, happened to be a single bit set in the first byte of that sector of the block. I changed that byte to zero, and GS/OS was happy! No more error message. I still don't trust the volume. I don't know how the two files on my disk got "block in use" errors (if anyone has ideas on this, I'd like to hear them!). So, I will now be able to re-format the volume. At least my curiosity is satisfied. :) Thanks Dave, and all of you for your help! Gary Subj: Re: But The Bug Is Still There.. 89-02-24 21:49:36 EST From: Coach101 From your description, it would seem that when you tried to delete the file with bad blocks the system _may_ have started freeing blocks up without making an integrity test to see that the block was legal. That could be how the bad bits got into the bit-map. If that happened with anything other than the ProDos FST under GsOs, I guess we should chalk it up to a known but infrequently triggered bug in prior, and frozen, versions of Apple II operating systems. If it happened with the ProDos FST under GsOs, maybe someone at Apple would be interested in seeing that it does not happen in future releases. You were not clear as to what operating system was being used for the delete operation. Out of curiousity, which was it? Subj: When I Deleted..... 89-02-25 02:13:56 EST From: AFA Gary J When I was deleting the file, I was running ACU under ProDOS 8. It was the most current version of ProDOS 8. It is what was installed under GS/OS. Gary Subj: I/O errors on delete 89-02-26 06:47:27 EST From: Dave Lyons That's a good explanation, Michael. Tom's article was the result of a week or so of discussion on GEnie about the problem...I was there. I _hope_ future versions of ProDOS 8 are modified so that they mark the file Deleted in the directory _before_ freeing any blocks or reversing the index block. The only part of that explanation I don't necessarily agree with is the "gradually" right before "corrupt more and more files on the volume." :-) It _could_ be gradual...or you could be unlucky enough to have the original file contain block number $0600, $0700, etc (depending on the size of your volume), so that the byte-swapped block number is one of your bitmap blocks, which gets freed! Very icky. What it boils down to is that you should be _very_ careful what you do if you get an I/O error during a Delete under ProDOS 8 1.3 to 1.7. In particular, _don't_ just try to delete the same file again. (I don't know how the ProDOS FST on System Disk 4.0 behaves, and I don't know for sure whether future ProDOS 8's will be changed.) I suppose I might as well save Matt the trouble of pointing out that ProDOS 8's behavior after getting an I/O error on a Delete is _not_ necessarily a bug, technically. "All bets are off" w.r.t. file system integrity after an I/O error during an operation that writes to disk. In general that's a good point...there no way the OS can guarantee your volume's integrity in general when it tries to write & can't. But in this particular case it's icky, because it could just as easily leave your volume in a _stable_ bug slightly-damaged state, rather than a very unstable state. (A "stable" damaged state means there are blocks marked used in the bitmap that aren't really used, but everything else is peachy.) Subj: Re: I Have To Call It A Bug... 89-02-26 11:45:26 EST From: Coach101 The point about not being able to "guarantee" integrity in the face of a _write-error_ is well taken. However, I AGREE with Dave fully, and being a highly opinionated person, probably more strongly. When face with an error, or when doing operations that could be _icky_ in the face of errors, it is the responsibility of the operating system to be very conservative. The payoff, possibly speed, has to be enormous to justify not being conservative. Even with the most prudent and conservative file backup strategies, data is not necessarily replaceable or regenerable!! Subj: opinionatedness 89-02-26 14:36:20 EST From: Dave Lyons What's that, Coach? You agree with me more strongly than I agree with myself? :-) Subj: Deleting Bad Block Files 89-02-26 22:08:20 EST From: AFA Gary J Thanks for the info, Mike. (I saw that in Open Apple... er... A2 Central and forgot about it..) Gary Subj: Re: AppleLink University 89-03-01 21:35:09 EST From: Coach101 Well Dave, do you know if they offer a "bonehead english" course in the AppleLink University? Looks like I need a refresher on sentence construction. Subj: Re:P8 "delete" glitches 89-03-01 21:58:44 EST From: DennisDoms Just for "credit where credit is due", Glen Bredon is the first person that seemed to have sniffed out that problem with an error during "delete". It explained several glitches we had received reports of at _A2-Central_. :) Subj: GSOS/5 1/4 drive 89-02-25 23:45:21 EST From: DarrylK1 Msgs: 2 (89-02-26) I have a 40 meg chinook, a 3 1/2 drive 2 5 1/4 drives, my problem is I loaded AWGS onto the hard drive and use the GSOS that came with it as my launcher. For some reason it won't recognize the 5 1/4 drives. How come? Subj: APPLEDISK5.25 driver 89-02-26 02:46:20 EST From: Dave Lyons Have you installed the APPLEDISK5.25 driver using the Installer? If so, is its "Inactive" check box turned off in the Get Info... window in the Finder? (Open the boot disk, open the System folder, open the Drivers folder, select APPLEDISK5.25, and choose Get Info....) Subj: Re: GS/OS & AppleWorks 89-03-02 20:01:19 EST From: Dave Lyons Doc Arcane, other users have had problems like yours, yes. I hope you don't mind if I go ahead and tell you what the problem probably is and how to fix it, even though you specifically said you weren't asking that. :-) Most likely you are using AppleWorks 2.0, and you have some New Desk Accessories (NDAs) in your SYSTEM/DESK.ACCS folder of your boot disk. AppleWorks 2.0 has a bug where it informs desk accessories that the desktop environment has been started up, when in fact it has not (AppleWorks is a text-based program). With many NDAs, this is not a problem, but with some it is. It's an AppleWorks bug that does not show up until you install certain NDAs. Solutions: Use AppleWorks 2.1; or remove the offending NDAs if you don't use them anyway; or reboot from ProDOS 8 when you want to run AppleWorks; or patch your copy of AppleWorks 2.0 to remove the bug (see back issues of Open Apple or inCider/A+ (don't remember which one of those printed a patch), or ask here & someone can dig up a patch). --Dave Subj: Patch for 2.0 89-03-02 20:07:51 EST From: AFL Floyd I posted the patch for AppleWorks 2.0 in the AppleWorks Forum under "Patch Mania" (I think). Floyd Subj: Re: GS/OS & AppleWorks 89-03-02 20:20:03 EST From: HDH In some programs on the Macintosh I know if I use the Finder on a word processed icon that it automatically boots up the word processing program that that icon belongs to. I've tried to do the same thing with my Appleworks files using the Finder in GS/OS. I always get the same message Can't find Apleworks.System. Since I use Ultra Macros, Apleworks.System has been renamed Apleworks.Sys. Is there any way I can get the Finder to realize this and boot up the document via Ultra.System? Or must I always boot up Appleworks and then get my documents from within? hdh Subj: Re: GS/OS & AppleWorks 89-03-02 20:33:19 EST From: CecilFret Interesting. I am running AppleWorks 2.0 using a 20 MB CMS drive and the Finder. I have had no problems. Subj: Re: GS/OS & AppleWorks 89-03-02 20:40:31 EST From: Matt DTS Cecil: It's like Dave said - sometimes the _FixAppleMenu call causes problems, sometimes it doesn't. For you, it doesn't. But an upgrade to 2.1 is still probably wise, especially since it's free (I think). HDH: To change your situation, use an icon editor (like DAL Systems' "DIcEd") to change the pathname associated with the AppleWorks WP, SS and DB icons to the pathname of your ULTRA.SYSTEM file. AppleWorks won't automatically load the file for you, but it will launch when you double-click an AppleWorks data file icon. --Matt Subj: DeskStartup/DeskShutdown; icons 89-03-03 00:18:35 EST From: Dave Lyons (Matt, it's DeskStartup and DeskShutdown that are the problem; as far as I know, AppleWorks never calls FixAppleMenu.) Yes, DIcEd (available in the AUT libraries under GS Utilities: Icons and Icon Editors) will do the trick. Use it to edit the FINDER.ICONS file on your boot disk. Too bad AppleWorks doesn't support the MessageCenter and actually load the file or files you clicked on. Subj: Re: GS/OS & AppleWorks 89-03-03 21:35:59 EST From: AFA Parik AW GS does automatically load up the document when you click it, right (in the process loading up AW GS)... Subj: Re: GS/OS & AppleWorks 89-03-04 01:09:32 EST From: Dave Lyons Yes, AWGS supports the message center. I don't think the Finder will let you Open, say, an AWGS Word Processing document and an AWGS Graphics document at the same time, though. Too bad, because it wouldn't be a problem for the application...it would make a lot of sense. Subj: Re: GS/OS & AppleWorks 89-03-10 04:53:44 EST From: Dave HDS You mean something like holding shift down and selecting multiple document icons? One problem I see is that you could select documents from more than one application (or from two different applications). Which gets ran? And what does the application do with message center messages to start files that are not it's own? Perhaps you can restrict it so that you can only select those files that all share the same creator. It would be a nice feature, though, especially for something like AWGS... Subj: GS/OS= AUTOCRASH!! 89-03-12 19:30:19 EST From: HyperRam Msgs: 19 (89-03-29) I have been downloading a lot of files from Alink. (nda's) And when I use Control Panel Nda or something else, it some times crashes. I dont know what disks are effected! Sometimes the trash dissapears! I need a commercial virus checker for all disks including Harddrives. And that it checks it! Not just suspects it! Help I got 69 3.5" disks and I don't know what is wrong! Help!!! Subj: WHAT TO PUT IN THIS FOLDER. 89-03-12 19:31:26 EST From: HyperRam If you have had GS/OS crashing alot. Comment here! HyperRam Subj: Try this: 89-03-12 20:06:45 EST From: A2Pro Tim Remove all of your desk accessories, except for the CACHE NDA and then reboot - does your system still crash? Put the desk accessories back in one at a time and reboot between each one. More than likely, you've got a desk accessory that is incompatible with GS/OS (sorry, but it happens). Subj: viruses are not the problem 89-03-12 22:59:08 EST From: Dave Lyons HyperRam, based on the first message in this folder _and_ the other correspondence between us in the last week or so, I'm confident that your problems come from bugs in one or more of the CDAs or NDAs you are using. BUGS AND VIRUSES ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS! Viruses are programs that are designed to spread themselves into other programs, changing those programs on disk. There are only two viruses that I know of that affect the Apple II, and both of them affect _only_ ProDOS 8 SYS files, not CDAs, NDAs, or Apple IIgs applications (S16 or EXE files). Those two viruses are called Festering Hate and CyberAIDS. Again, they only affect SYS files that run under ProDOS 8. There are programs that can detect those viruses with 100% certainty. On the other hand, it is _impossible_, both in theory and in practice, to write a program that can automatically analyze other programs and correctly classify them as "safe" or "not safe." Ideal virus detectors can't exist. The best that can be done is what some existing programs do: they look for "suspicious" patterns of bytes in files that seem to have certain purposes (like setting the clock, or formatting a 5.25 disk). Detectors like this are almost useless. They often give warnings where the code has a perfectly legitimate purpose, and if somebody really _does_ bother to hide destructive code inside a program, they could easily keep that part of the program in a special coded format and have the program decode it when it was ready to be used. So: keep decent backups and don't waste too much time worrying about viruses. Let us know what you find out about your CDAs and NDAs, and let's pin down any and all bugs and get their authors to fix 'em up. --Dave Lyons Subj: Re: GS/OS= AUTOCRASH!! 89-03-15 22:10:35 EST From: DennisDoms I've been using GS/OS since September 1988 (AppleFest) for probably 10+ hours a day average (computers at work and home) and I've _never_ had a crash I can attribute to GS/OS. It's usually one or more other factors: 1) Badly written software (If I change my system configuration in terms of DA's, etc. and things go goofy, I go back to the old configuration and add things more slowly next time and test them). 2) Too little memory (can be a combination of slightly greater memory use by GS/OS and any DA's or other memory hogs I've added). 3) Heat effects (I have not had a single "0911 error" since adding a fan to my system). 4) Bad memory chips (well, I haven't had this problem with GS/OS but I had it with ProDOS 16, and I have seen it recur with some users and GS/OS). Usually non-CAS-before-RAS; even if you know that "mine are good", check this again if you have recurring crashes with software that uses the IIgs expansion memory. The list goes on; there are a lot of things that can crop up with a machine as intricate as a computer, especially when users "mix and match" hardware and software components. The point is that knowing what the symptoms are of a crash and the conditions that are in effect at the time are more important than a guess as to the cause. As Matt DTS said elsewhere, there are a lot of crashes hastily attributed to GS/OS with no solid evidence (GS/OS may not be perfect, but it's a blazing good first cut at a new OS). Subj: Re: System Error $1102 89-03-24 00:14:27 EST From: AFA Gary J Orch, What version of the operating system are you running? Are you running GS/OS? I suspect you may be booting an older version of the operating system, or perhaps you have a damaged file. System Error $1102 is for Incompatible OMF version: The object module format version of a load segment (as specified in its header) is incompatible with the current version of the System Loader. The loader will not load such a segment. You should either try booting with GS/OS (which is the most current version of the operating system available for the IIGS) or, if you already are using GS/OS, try re-copying the Appleworks program to your ROM or Hard disk. As for getting your machine to boot from your hard drive instead of your ROM disk: Go into the control panel (Ctrl-Apple-ESC) and go to the "Slots" menu option and change your "Startup Slot" to Slot 6, (or Scan should do the same thing if you don't have anything in slot 7). Gary Subj: error $1102 89-03-24 00:54:30 EST From: Dave Lyons Yup, Gary's got that one covered. Subj: Re: error $1102 89-03-24 21:45:10 EST From: AFL Oli Apparently, somewhere in the installation process my AWGS file got corrupted. I copied onto the disk a fresh copy of AWGS and it worked fine. Thanks "Orch Teach" Oli Subj: Re: GS/OS= AUTOCRASH!! 89-03-25 20:01:03 EST From: HyperRam If I have ANY NDA's and try to launch Paintworks GOLD it will beep and I can't do anything. Is that a crash or is it telling me I don't got enough memory? I got 1.25meg. Subj: Re: GS/OS= AUTOCRASH!! 89-03-25 20:34:31 EST From: GlenBredon It is probably a crash. When it beeps, try pressing control-reset but hold the reset key down for a while. If you see some junk from the monitor - thats it. Subj: Re: GS/OS= AUTOCRASH!! 89-03-26 01:54:23 EST From: AFA Parik PaintWorks Gold doesn't like GS/OS + NDAs due to the way it gets memory. You need to be running without any NDAs and CDAs basically, i can squash by with one or two sometimes. The update to PaintWorks Gold should be shipping soon, go to the ACTIVISION industry connection forum for more info. Subj: Re: GS/OS= AUTOCRASH!! 89-03-26 01:58:03 EST From: Matt DTS Yes, basically PWG made some bad assumptions about memory (such as which banks would be free) that were bad things for it to do. Again, I've got to ask why this is in this category - this is a question about an application problem, not about GS/OS "autocrashing". Am I just overly sensitive this week? (probably...) --Matt Subj: PaintWorks Gold crashing 89-03-26 11:48:10 EST From: Dave Lyons HyperRam, do you have a RAMdisk or anything else set up that is using up memory? PaintWorks Gold (whatever version is current...don't remember the number) needs almost all the available RAM on a 1.25M machine. Subj: Folder Placement..... 89-03-26 18:37:15 EST From: Coach101 Matt, I know what you mean about folders ending up in strange places. Perhaps a lot of items end up in this arena (ADV that is) because the people monitoring this baby do such an outstanding job of getting answers or directing a person to the right place to be. I an NOT taking a swipe at any other Forums since I basically have no experience with any of the others; ADV fits me right nice. Subj: Re: GS/OS= AUTOCRASH!! 89-03-26 20:32:46 EST From: AFL Dyfet Also, this topic can bring up points on what NOT TO DO when writting application software, which makes it ADV stuff :) I will give some further thoughts to your comments in this regard when I officially take charge, Matt... Dyfet Subj: Re: GS/OS= AUTOCRASH!! 89-03-28 07:33:08 EST From: HyperRam Yes, I have noticed that junk on the screen. But-When I just have cache as an NDA it MAY luanch but you don't have enought memory for animation. Doesn't GSOS take more room than Prodos 16? Because some person said it will be hard to launch older programs. How Appleworks GS which is about 50 time bigger launches then? Subj: running out of memory 89-03-29 02:19:34 EST From: Dave Lyons GS/OS does indeed need more memory than ProDOS 16 did. AppleWorks GS is a bigger _file_ than PaintWorks Gold, but then PWG tries to allocate 640K of memory aside from the what program itself takes up! _That_ is when it fails. Subj: AWGS--dynamic segments 89-03-29 02:20:34 EST From: Dave Lyons Also, AppleWorks GS has quite a few "dynamic segments" that are loaded only when they are needed. I don't think PaintWorks Gold has many, if any. Subj: Re: GS/OS Reliability 89-03-13 03:11:49 EST From: HyperRam I created another folder for the same thing. GS/OS AutoCrash. Haha. Gs/Os crashes all the time. I hate this computer! Subj: Re: GS/OS Reliability 89-03-13 18:36:35 EST From: AFA Parik Folder's can't be renamed without recopying each message, and since we don't want Jim or Gary to go crazy, thats not a good option. :) Not many new users seem to browse the development forum though, you could make a folder (sort of like the one that says "USE THE MORE BUTTON") that just screams in bold letters "GS/OS WORKS PERFECTLY!"... Subj: Re: GS/OS Reliability 89-03-13 23:13:44 EST From: AFA Gary J Matt, you are not imagining things! I am amazed at some of the things I have read about GS/OS. I found a post the other day in the Apple User's Group Forum (under Forum Business) that accused GS/OS of causing System Error $0911. Another one spoke of GS/OS having 26 known bugs. I'm not exactly sure what to do about the situation either, other than checking everywhere for GS/OS Bug Propaganda messages and doing my best to make sure the truth is known :) I kind of like Parik's idea about creating the "GS/OS = PERFECT OS" folder. I am, personally, very impressed with GS/OS and its performance. I am looking forward to future Apple support on this product in the way of additional FST's. I think the presence of GS/OS helps dispell some of the doom and gloom rumors about the Apple II line that have been floating around. GS/OS gives the Apple IIGS a bright future. (I mean really, what other system has an operating system like this? Certainly NOT the Amiga!) Gary Subj: Re: GS/OS Reliability 89-03-13 23:40:18 EST From: AFA Parik Heh, the Amiga has the OS of a Nintendo... Subj: Rename Folders.... Yeah!!!!! 89-03-14 00:38:24 EST From: Coach101 I agree with you Matt, there are a lot of GS/OS (there, are you happy now?) _problems_ that get posted that are, when all is said and done, memory, CDAs, NDAs, sloppy programming, etc. In my usage of GS/OS I have found it to be very reliable, and from what I can currently see, EXTREMELY extensible (a vital feature for the future of the II line). On the other hand, the number of folders titled "GS/OS stinks.." is sure not a good advertisement. I really can not blame some of the since they do not have the experience, knowledge and programming bent to distinguish between who is doing what to whom (not every user of GS/OS has Toolbox I, Toolbox II, GS/OS reference, etc...). Though it appears to be a lot of work at the present time, maybe allowing a Forum Leader to "retitle" a folder would be important enough to ask for some action from Quantum. Of course there would always be the disgruntled who refused to believe that the "retitling" was accurate, but with the integrety of the forum leaders, I would not see this a major problem. Subj: renamable folders, etc 89-03-14 03:13:01 EST From: Dave Lyons I agree--FLs should definitely be able to rename folders. (By "should" I mean that Quantum should provide this ability for them.) HyperRam, GS/OS does ->NOT<- crash all the time. Your machine crashes all the time because you try to install six thousand desk accessories all at once and only five thousand nine hundred and ninety nine of them are written properly. Or whatever. (Desk Accessories get an opportunity to screw things up during boot; just having a bad one installed can cause a crash, even if you don't use it!) Sure, GS/OS is in your machine at the time of the crash, but it wasn't responsible. You might as well blame the little green light on the monitor--it has as much control over what buggy DAs and applications do to the system as GS/OS does. --Dave Subj: GS/OS IS THE GREATEST!!!! 89-03-14 18:54:37 EST From: DanielJ7 GS/OS is the best operating system I have ever seen. I have NEVER had it crash except when $#!^@ ProDOS 16 programs don't behave themselves. Now if only people would start writing GS/OS specific software... My only gripe is the lack of control-reset! Daniel B. Johnson Subj: Re: GS/OS Reliability 89-03-15 01:02:31 EST From: PaulM83 Matt, I personally like GS/OS very much, and while it may not be perfect it is the best we have yet. I was the one who opened the folder GS/OS and Printer PGH. Perhaps you will be kind enough to answer my question --If something works as advertised under Prodos 8 and Prodos 16 but not under GS/OS and if not one of you experts can give me the slightest reason why, why shouldn't I suspect that the fault is with GS/OS? BELIEVE ME, I'm open to about any suggestion to resolve this, and I'm not picking on GS/OS. So what is your suggestion???? Subj: Pointing at the problem 89-03-15 01:48:06 EST From: AFL Jim If the AppleLink software doesn't print under GS/OS, then it is most likely a problem with the AppleLink software. I too have had trouble printing from AppleLink (I use AppleWriter or AppleWorks to print) and I hope AppleLink's printer routines will be corrected in the future to handle all printer interfaces. Subj: GS/OS and RESET 89-03-15 04:37:28 EST From: Dave Lyons Daniel, the RESET issue has been beaten to death elsewhere, already. There is no way to guarantee that the system is in an okay state after a RESET. Overall, it's good that it's gone. Subj: Re: GS/OS Reliability 89-03-15 08:32:32 EST From: ShrinkIt Matt, you're going to be on comp.sys.apple? Hooooo boy are we going to have fun! :-) andy Subj: Re: GS/OS Reliability 89-03-16 22:29:42 EST From: Matt DTS Just posted my first comp.sys.apple message a few minutes ago. We'll see what happens next... Paul, I meant to say (can't recall if I *did* or not) that of all the folders posted seemingly blaming GS/OS for something, yours is the only one that has a shot at being right. You may have a genuine case of something that does not work under GS/OS for compatibility reasons. The point was that such resolutions are the exception and not the rule. --Matt Subj: Re: GS/OS Reliability & RESET! 89-03-20 00:55:06 EST From: PElseth Chalk up another vote of confidence for GS/OS. Along with the seemingly vast majority of others, I _really_ like GS/OS. AND, I have found it to be very stable. However, since Dave says the Reset issue has been beaten to death, I guess it won't feel anything if I toss my club away - and happen to hit it again in the process :). It is a fact that allowing a RESET under GS/OS can be a _very_ bad thing. HOWEVER, there are (few and far between) times at which I _really_ want to be allowed to RESET. My only argument is that someone else has Decided that I am not capable of handling myself around the RESET key. Now while this may very well be true, being the ornery sort, I kind of resent having this decided for me. In case anyone was wondering, I develope software for a living, and the only times I have wanted to hit RESET was under APW with a program in a little loop (nowhere near any disk devices). It's real annoying to have to reboot - loosing any post-mortem information that happened to be hanging around. Oh yeah - and I never tried to continue working w/o rebooting unless I was reasonably sure of what I was doing. My point is that while preventing RESET increases the reliability of the system as a whole, it would sure be nice if developers could work around it. Thanks for letting me voice my opinion a little bit late - and I hope I didn't offend. Subj: Re: GS/OS Reliability 89-03-20 01:15:24 EST From: GlenBredon Merlin-16+ does allow reset trapping if you want (it is an option). I have never seen a problem with it, but I would agree that rebooting as soon as possible is recommended. As for reliability of GS/OS, I have seen some bugs with it, mostly minor, but it is a remarkably solid product - not at all what I expected from the beta versions that I saw and which would not run at all acceptably. Actually, I had more problems with P16 than with GS/OS, and I've been running GS/OS exclusively since Sept. Subj: GS/OS is GREAT!! 89-04-14 22:51:35 EST From: BurgerBill I write software for a living and at first I was scared about using ProDOS 16 for my games (Bard's Tale I and II) but now I have written my first game in GS/OS (Crystal Quest) and now I am believer!! Using Merlin 16+ and GS/OS with an Innerdrive 16 bit is the best thing I have ever used. I only hope that I can get more info on writing FSTS for GS/OS. Subj: Re: GS/OS Reliability 89-04-14 23:12:36 EST From: GlenBredon In the last week I have had to revise my opinion of the reliability of GS/OS. There are some really potentially disastrous problems with it which can, and have, utturly destroyed hard disk volumes. (Repeatable.) I've been beating my head trying to find a run-around for such problems, but the only solution I have found is to force a system shutdown after doing certain things. I still like GS/OS generally, but I sure hope the next release will solve some of the present defects. Subj: Re: FST.. 89-04-15 11:53:47 EST From: DougMac Yes GS/OS is great, but don't expect too much documentation on FST. I don't understand why not, as the device driver manual is detailed enough, why can't we make our own FST, if we can make our own drivers?? Yes GS/OS crashing on a hard drive is very much a pain. I think right now about 5% of my hard drive is junk, that I have to keep around until I do a file back up of my hard drive and re-initialize the directory structure.. When a simple crash trashes the directry structure and sets up links between data files and system files, that general gets to be a pain.. The drive isn't necessarily going when the crash comes, the only requirement is an open file.. Subj: Is There No Reconstruct Utility? 89-04-16 11:49:54 EST From: Coach101 Lost disk space is classic operating system behaviour in the face of an unexpected termination (known, in vulgar circles as a CRASH). I do not know how GS/OS does it, but in a lot of systems I have worked with, the system will allocate some amount of space on the volume and record the fact that the space is in use on the volume. Then as it needs the space it will use the space that it has pre-allocated. Doing it this way, will cut down on the writes to the volume's bit map. Of course if the system crashes before all of the units in the pre-allocated list are used then you end up with "dead" space on the disk. In any event, isnt there a utility some place that will run through a volume and reconstruct the volumes bit map to reflect what is actually found in the volumes directory and file structures? There must be one someplace. With respect to FSTs, in one of the Tuesday night sessions there was a comment that Apple positions with respect to FSTs was that in order to write an FST you need to know more about the internal structure of GS/OS than Apple is willing to release/document (or maybe freeze?). So, FSTs are the province of Apple. Subj: Re: GS/OS Reliability 89-04-16 12:19:23 EST From: AFL Dyfet In regards to reconstructing GS/OS volumes, one in theory would have to consider the FST in use for the given volume. There are a number of good utilities around for reconstructing ProDOS 8 volumes (including especially some of Glen Bredon's stuff), and I wish some of these utilities would be adapted to work with extended (resource fork) ProDOS files, but what do you do if/when the day comes that you have a HFS FST and a volume crash occurs on an HFS volume? Or what if Apple changes the ProDOS file system again? In regards to reliability, I must say I have not found any problem in this respect. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, just that I have not had a problem occur that would cause loss of a volume, and I have had GS/OS on my harddisk since mid/late-beta. Glen, if you could elaborate on situation(s) that you have found to be a problem, I think it would be much appreciated. Subj: Re: Lost files.. 89-04-16 17:05:26 EST From: DougMac Well for my drive, most of the problems come with the some files in the same directory getting linked to other files.. (ie. they contain a block or two of another file. So if I want to keep that file. I have to save the other bad file, and remember not to delete it. Also most of the time what happens is that the files I just created will end up not allocated on the disk. But that isn't as much a problem as I can fix them easily. Subj: Re: GS/OS Reliability 89-04-16 22:18:04 EST From: GlenBredon ProSel, of course, has facilities for regaining lost blocks on the disk etc. It has already been revised to deal with forked files. Subj: Basic System Bad in GS/OS? 89-03-13 06:37:40 EST From: HyperRam Msgs: 7 (89-03-25) I have had some problems with the GS/OS Basic.System. First when I thought my System.Disk was virused I packed it up and sent it to a Cust Rep. He couldn't unpack it-It stopped at Basic.System. He thought it was a bad pack. Now when I was coping the System Disk is said bad blocks. I deleted Basic System and it copied fine. HyperRam Subj: Re: Basic System Bad in GS/OS? 89-03-13 18:35:50 EST From: AFA Parik Where did you get your system disk HyperRam? Subj: bad blocks 89-03-14 03:08:40 EST From: Dave Lyons HyperRam, if you have bad blocks on the disk, that's a problem with the disk itself, the physical thing, not a problem with the file. On a good copy of System Disk 4.0 (or any other system disk, for that matter), BASIC.SYSTEM works fine. Subj: Re: Basic System Bad in GS/OS? 89-03-14 16:01:04 EST From: HyperRam I deleted the BS and there were no more bad blocks. I bought the package. Subj: Re: Basic System Bad in GS/OS? 89-03-14 21:02:07 EST From: AFA Parik The easiest thing to do is to just go in and get a new copy from your dealer (I assume thats where you bought it); there could be other things wrong with the system disk also. You could also transfer all files except basic.system to a new disk, and then get basic.system from AppleLink (Its in the APPLE II SYSTEM UTILITIES v3.1 file), but again, your best bet is to get a new copy from your dealer and check it while you're there! Subj: bad blocks 89-03-15 04:34:28 EST From: Dave Lyons Deleting a file will not repair bad blocks on the surface of your disk. But if you are using a program that checks for bad blocks by reading through the contents of all the _files_ on the volume, then you will no longer find out about the bad blocks, since they aren't being used at the moment. Subj: Re: Basic System Bad in GS/OS? 89-03-25 20:04:16 EST From: HyperRam Yeah but now I KNOW it is bad. The guys told me so. I deleted it and it was fixed. And thats that. Ram Subj: GS/OS AND PRINTER - PGH! 89-03-14 00:30:10 EST From: PaulM83 Msgs: 4 (89-03-14) Finally got smart enough to realize that this is a software and not a hardware problem. The 'work off line' utility of Alink will print text files nicely on my Imagewriter I when I boot Prodos 16 and launch Alink. When I boot GS/OS and launch Alink and go to the 'work off line' utility and try to print text files the dern thing doesn't eveh hiccough. All that happens is that the text scroals slowly up the monitor. I have the imagewriter driver in GS/OS. Am I missing something basic??? The frustrating thing is that this still is true with the brand new Alink disk which came today and which was supposed to solve the various little problems some of us had been having with Alink. I bought the Imagewriter I just to work with Alink but now do I have to bite the bullet and go to a II to suceed??? (Im almost unhappy enough to go two-ate-six instead!!) Help please! Subj: printer drivers 89-03-14 03:06:17 EST From: Dave Lyons The IMAGEWRITER driver in your SYSTEM/DRIVERS is not used by AppleLink--PE; that driver is only used by the Print Manager, for software that has Macintosh style Choose Printer, Page Setup, Print features. (I don't know what the problem is; I just know what it's not. :) Subj: Re: GS/OS AND PRINTER - PGH! 89-03-14 19:31:37 EST From: MacNasty Dave, I have the same problem. Are you saying that there isn't a driver for the Imagewriter I? Wouldn't the I and II use same driver? Why will things work under Prodos16 and not GS/OS? Subj: Re: GS/OS AND PRINTER - PGH! 89-03-14 19:35:14 EST From: MacNasty P.S. I've also found that Alink.Easyprint and Dogpaw won't work either, yet Appleworks and Screan.Print, and everything else will --very curious! Subj: Dissapearing Trashcan???? 89-03-25 20:07:58 EST From: HyperRam Msgs: 12 (89-05-08) How come sometime when I delete files the trash can dissapears? The name is still there and I can still delete file. Sometimes it will come back when I eject disks. But when its gone- I can't open it. Subj: Because... 89-03-26 18:30:02 EST From: Coach101 Why is this folder in the O/S area? Well, if you are not a programmer (whether you think you are or not), then Finder looks like the "command" level of an operating system to you; i.e., boot Unix and end up in 'sh', boot MsDOS and end up in 'command.com', boot GS/OS and end up in Finder. So, like it or not, to the vast majority of the world, Finder (including all its good points and whatever bad points there may be) is perceived as part of the operating system. Did I spell Finder acceptably Matt? Subj: sh, csh 89-03-26 19:16:08 EST From: Dave Lyons ...boot Unix and end up in csh... :-) ^ Subj: Re: Dissapearing Trashcan???? 89-03-28 03:42:16 EST From: A2Pro Tim Are you sure you don't have mutliple copies of the Finder icons in your icon folder (obviously, one of the copies would have had it's name changed....). This became a common problem when files of custom icons first started appearing on BBS's - folks would download replacement icon sets and simply rename their old ones, then copy in the new set. The Finder's never liked having multiple icons around for special things like the trashcan... Subj: Re: Dissapearing Trashcan???? 89-03-28 07:30:55 EST From: HyperRam Sorry about the wrong place-I noticed that after I put it in. Subj: Re: Dissapearing Trashcan???? 89-04-26 06:35:34 EST From: HyperRam God! It keeps on dissapearing! Subj: Re: Disappearing Trashcan???? 89-05-01 20:27:22 EST From: CAPelton Well, I'm having the same problem. And if this isn't a good place for asking this question (with all due respect) just where is? I've looed around for someplace to put this message and couldn't find anyplace that "looked right." Just WHAT is it that causes this problem? Chris. Subj: Re: Dissapearing Trashcan???? 89-05-02 00:34:45 EST From: Dave Lyons (This *is* a good place to ask this question--much better than Across The Boards, in fact.) I suspect that you have TWO trashcan icons, one of which is NOT in a file called FINDER.ICONS. Is this true? Try getting rid of the extra one, if so. Subj: Re: Dissapearing Trashcan???? 89-05-02 22:36:37 EST From: HyperRam Nope, I don't got 2. Subj: Re: Dissapearing Trashcan???? 89-05-04 05:41:18 EST From: Dave Lyons HyperRam, how do you know you don't have two icons with the filetype reserved for the trashcan? They don't have to *look* like trashcans--they just have to have that filetype. How many icon files do you have in the ICONS folders of the disks you have online while the thing disappears? Subj: Re: Dissapearing Trashcan???? 89-05-08 17:25:13 EST From: Shoggoth2 I've had this happen to me, too. I don't have multiple trashcans, and I've checked the filetypes, Dave. Matt said it was the Finder's problem in the second message. We'll just have to wait for the next revision of the Finder to solve it. Subj: AWGS and Disk Cache NDA 89-04-02 13:39:22 EST From: AFL Scott Msgs: 5 (89-04-03) A number of people have been removing the Disk Cache NDA from GS/OS in order to "free" some memory for AppleWorks GS to use. My question is simple, is this alright to do? Does it open the door for additional problems? Thanks in advance, Scott <--still has his Disk Cache NDA intact. Subj: Re: AWGS and Disk Cache NDA 89-04-02 14:46:21 EST From: AFL Dyfet I believe the only thing this NDA does for you is to give you a way to set or change the size of the cache. You should be able to use the machine fine without it. Incidently, setting the cache to 0, from what I understand, doesn't really do this, as there is still a minimum amount of memory used by the ProDOS FST for directory caching and such. Subj: Re: AWGS and Disk Cache NDA 89-04-02 16:02:37 EST From: GlenBredon The cache always uses at least 16K even if set to 0. As stated, removing the NDA does not affect this - it is just for resizing the cache. Subj: Re: AWGS and Disk Cache NDA 89-04-03 06:54:30 EST From: Matt DTS What they said. It's just a size changer; the cache operates fine without it present. --Matt Subj: Re: AWGS and Disk Cache NDA 89-04-03 18:15:45 EST From: AFL Scott Thanks, I just wanted to be sure before I said anything. Scott Subj: copying DOS 3.3 disks 89-04-12 02:38:42 EST From: Dave Lyons You can use the System Utilities to copy DOS 3.3 disks. DOS 3.3 programs will not run under GS/OS, but you can set your Startup Slot to your 6 in the control panel and reboot directly from the DOS 3.3 disk. In the future, GS/OS File System Translators may allow you to copy DOS 3.3 files and disks, but right now you can't do it in the Finder. (You'll still have to reboot to RUN DOS 3.3-specific programs, though.) --Dave Subj: gsos novice 89-04-13 23:49:38 EST From: TPhoenix Msgs: 7 (89-04-26) Hope this doesn't seem too silly a question from a novice. Just finished downloading gsossystem.disk and gsos system.tools. Thought I'd be able to copy them both on to the same disk, but not enough room. How do I access the system tools from the system disk (won't boot by itself). Many thanks, Todd Phoenix Subj: Single drive system 89-04-14 00:20:03 EST From: Jump Long You boot the /System.Disk, eject it, then insert the /System.Tools disk. With a single drive system, you may have to swap disks a few times now and then but the system software automatically asked you to swap disks when it needs one that isn't in a drive. JML Subj: Re: gsos novice 89-04-14 20:26:25 EST From: AFA Parik TPhoenix, Another thing you may want to do is make a booting disk of GS/OS tailored for your system. The first thing to do is bootup the SYSTEM.DISK you've downloaded, and insert SYSTEM.TOOLS. Launch the file INSTALL on the SYSTEM.TOOLS disk. Insert a blank, formatted 3.5" disk and select the VOLUME box until the name of your formatted disk comes in. Then select "INSTALL ALL SYSTEM FILES". Let it copy around, you'll have to swap disks a couple of times. Then, you can install any "specials"; such as 5.25 drivers, or SCSI hard disk, etc, etc. Now tuck your SYSTEM.DISK and SYSTEM.TOOLS disk away, and boot this newly made GS/OS disk! You can set options in the finder, change the starting screen, add startbeeps, and god knows what. Subj: Re: gsos novice 89-04-14 21:59:03 EST From: TPhoenix Thanks for the help, folks! Todd Subj: Re: gsos novice 89-04-22 12:54:06 EST From: Matt DTS When Parik says "Install All System Files", he means "Install System Files", not "Install Everything Possible". The latter script installs so much stuff that it all won't fit on a 5.25" disk. (The help button for the script says so, incidentally.) --Matt Subj: Let me try that again 89-04-22 12:55:12 EST From: Matt DTS I meant it won't all fit on a 3.5" disk. It installs more than 800K worth of files, so it won't fit on a 5.25" disk either. --Matt Subj: Re: gsos novice 89-04-26 20:41:01 EST From: THE GIBBER Well Matt If we had 1.2 meg floppies we would be able to do that...... Wouldn't we ;) Gibber Subj: GS/OS install problem 89-04-16 19:20:36 EST From: AFL Dyfet Msgs: 5 (89-04-22) Subj: Drivers ignored- GS/OS 89-04-16 19:02:32EDT From: CompuWhiz3 Msgs: 1 (89-04-16) GS/OS is ignoring my 5.25 disk driver, modem driver, AppleMIDI driver, and Printer driver. HELP!!!!! Subj: ignored driver files? 89-04-16 23:01:26 EST From: Dave Lyons CompuWhiz3, check the following: --Your driver files are in the DRIVERS folder inside the SYSTEM folder of the disk you are booting from. --Your drivers are "active." Select the icons and choose Get Info. If any Inactive check boxes are checked, uncheck them and reboot. If this doesn't help, yell again. --Dave Subj: Re: GS/OS install problem 89-04-17 19:50:34 EST From: CompuWhiz3 I tryed that. The finder still ignores them. In fact, they were marked active. Subj: drivers ignored? 89-04-20 23:55:46 EST From: Dave Lyons Are there any drivers GS/OS is NOT ignoring? If not, is your DRIVERS folder really called "DRIVERS", and is it in the SYSTEM folder of your boot disk? Do your 5.25 drives work okay from ProDOS 8 programs? Subj: GS/OS SCSI 89-05-19 01:18:38 EST From: TMH2 Msgs: 17 (89-06-04) Reference has been made (on GEnie, I think) of some bugs in the GS/OS SCSI driver, and a program is provided to fix them. 1) Are there any known bugs in the driver 2) if so, what are they 3) What are the fixes. (I'm not about to take someone's word for it, and disassembly of the driver w/o interface docs would be pointless) Z^\GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG\_ Z R Z T. Mike Howeth II N Z Dallas, Texas N Z (TMH2) V Z B Q ZO WVWVWVWVWVWVWVWVP_ Subj: SCSI bugs... 89-05-19 02:44:28 EST From: A2Pro Tim TMike, Glen Bredon (the guy who writes Merlin, ProSel, etc) is the person who found the bugs and he's released a patch on GEnie. Search the A2 library for a recent upload by "bredon" and you'll no doubt find it... Tim S. Subj: Re: GS/OS SCSI 89-05-19 21:55:17 EST From: Montagne Hey guy's, how bout some more information. If you find a bug, we are definitely interested. Please give us information on the os version, driver version (yes GS/OS has driver versions) and the offending driver call. A third party patch may satisfy you in the short term but let's ask the source to fix it the right way! Please send Apple DTS the details!!! Thanks, Ray Subj: Bredon's SCSI patch 89-05-20 03:19:08 EST From: Dave Lyons In this case, we already know about it (Matt and I were following the GEnie discussion several weeks ago, just before Glen released his patch). Here's the problem, to the best of my understanding: when a block is written through the SCSI.DRIVER on System Disk 4.0, the first two bytes of the buffer being written *from* are changed after the block is written. So the block on disk is okay, but if the program that wrote the block still needs the info in memory, it has a problem. We forwarded the description from Glen to the appropriate people, & they verified that the problem does not exist in the 5.0 SCSI stuff (which was completely replacing System Disk 4.0's interim SCSI driver anyway). --Dave (DTS) Subj: Re: GS/OS SCSI 89-05-21 19:27:20 EST From: HyperRam How did you do that dialog box? Subj: What? 89-05-22 21:08:47 EST From: Dave Lyons HyperRam, your last message said "How did you do that dialog box?" What are you talking about? (If it doesn't belong in this folder, just reply in the correct folder.) Subj: Re: GS/OS SCSI 89-05-23 19:02:39 EST From: GlenBredon The patch was uploaded here also, I think. I sent in a bug report but that was not good enough since people were having problems NOW, and it had to be fixed now instead of waiting for the 5.0 disk to fix it. (I knew that 5.0 did fix it, but could not talk about 5.0 at that time - I'm not sure I can now.) Subj: Re: GS/OS SCSI 89-05-27 09:59:19 EST From: LVirden Dave, Hyper was talking about the window dialog box that Tim put in his first message - that IS Neat and I was going to ask the same thing! Subj: Re: GS/OS SCSI 89-05-27 19:50:44 EST From: AFA Parik Its easy 'nuff, you can figure it out by "SAVE AS..." his message, but the secret is putting a ^Tchar^T for mousetext in messages ONLY. You need to keep the control-chars/message in a file, and then just "OPEN..." it and it'll place it where the cursor is. Don't bother junking up message base with gobs of garbage, message would just be deleted. So if you wanna put a box of apple's, it'd look like... ^T@A@A@A^T ^TA^T ^T@^T ^T@^T ^T@^T ^TA@A@A@^T and output would be @A@A@A@A@A@A@A@A@ A A @ @ A@A@A@A@A@A@A@A@A voila! Subj: Re: GS/OS SCSI 89-05-29 12:59:42 EST From: A GibberFC An Easy one for youz guys out there... What does GS/OS look for in the Rev C Scsi card that is or isn't there in the REV B card??? is it a series of bytes in the Rom or what??? Gibber Subj: Re: GS/OS SCSI 89-05-29 21:01:12 EST From: Montagne It's not that we are looking for anything special other than the revision number obtained through SmartPort Status Call 3. SCSI revisions prior to rev C had some problems that made earlier revisions of the rom incompatable with GS/OS. This was corrected in Rev C which Apple provides as a free upgrade. In system 4.0, the SCSI driver relied rather heavily on the firmware residing on the SCSI card. In system 5.0, the firmware is only used during the boot process but the revision is just as important as it was for system 4.0. Subj: "Dialog" box control characters 89-05-31 23:48:12 EST From: AFA Gary J Hyper (and others): Before you go and put a bunch of control characters in your messages, keep in mind that there will be Macintosh users on this system as well. The mouse text characters don't translate to the Mac. It just looks like a bunch of garbage. Gary Subj: Interesting Choice.... 89-06-01 00:19:05 EST From: Coach101 No control characters --> Plain text for everyone Control characters -----> Nice things for Apple II users -----> Garbage for Mac users Subj: Re: "Trash for Mac users" 89-06-01 19:57:39 EST From: TMH2 Nice turning of the tables for a change, don't you think!?!? (TAKE THIS, MAC USERS!) : Z^\GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG\_ Z R Z T. Mike Howeth II N Z Dallas, Texas N Z (TMH2) V Z B Q ZO WVWVWVWVWVWVWVWVP_ Subj: Re: GS/OS SCSI 89-06-03 19:56:43 EST From: Scapino LOL:))) WAY TO GO MIKE..... KURT Subj: Re: GS/OS SCSI 89-06-04 08:41:32 EST From: Larry A24 I agree, if the MAC users are in this area, they have to live with any junk they get on their screens. I wonder what mousetext looks like on a MAC screen? This could get interesting! Larry